Once again I talked with @Fitzman73, this time we started by talking about the just announced Star Wars Episode VII title and went all over the place from there.
Strap in cause this is a long one with alot of ranting from the both of us.
This conversation appears just as we had it, spelling mistakes and all, to maintain the honesty of it all.
Same as last time, his parts of the conversation start with his name in red.
Click his name and it will lead you to his podcast, Just Jump To The End.
ThatScoobyDoom: With Episode VII not being in the official title and alot of the other announcements from production, do you think they’re going overboard to try to seem closer to the OT than the PT?
And do you think that may be more detrimental than trying to stand on their own?
@Fitzman73: I don’t think they’re going overboard necessarily, but it is obvious that as soon as Disney took over and they announced the sequel to the OT, it was all stop as far as the prequel era.
I mean it’s no mystery that that’s why Clone Wars was so abruptly canceled.
The show was amazing and very acclaimed.
I think they might’ve finally won an Emmy for season 5 oddly enough.
It makes sense really, and not in a “the prequels suck let’s pretend they never happened” kinda way, although there’s no doubt that a lot of shitheads in the world have made it their mission to trash those films (which are only marginal films AT WORST) but because they weren’t universally loved or exactly lile what “fans” wanted like the OT (which, know your history, had its share of haters in the day) people just love to rag on them and make them a punchline.
So the PT is definitely somewhat of a mess from a public image standpoint, but to me it makes sense to play up the OT era more now because the new films will tie in directly to them and you have to realize that the OT has taken a backseat to the PT as far as marketing and merch and new content since ’99.
So there’s a lot of people who don’t really remember the OT or who grew up in the prequel era and need to have the OT drilled into them leading up to the sequels.
I find it refreshing and thrilling even to see this shift back into the grungy imperfect OT universe.
I like the prequels but it’s nice to finally see some new OT stuff happening
ThatScoobyDoom: ****WARNING, THE FOLLOWING INCLUDES MUCH RANTING****
You make alot of good points and bring up alot of interesting thoughts, forgive me if I go long here as I wanna touch on all of them.
But I do wanna be clear, I meant specifically from a production standpoint.
Having just watched the 4 story reels for The Clone Wars, holy shit dude!
That show was going amazing places!
While I haven’t seen Seasons 3-5, it’s a damn shame it got shit canned.
Like, not putting Episode VII in the title just because “Episode…” wasn’t in the title for IV-VI seems a but reaching to me.
It comes off like “hey guys look, we’re even gonna market them like the OT. Ain’t that cool?” At this point, they all have Episode in the title, why bother excluding it?
You talk about the OT being relatively ignored since 97 or so (and I hate to always throw this up, but I must) if you look at Legends only a quarter to a third of that was PT era and before.
The vast majority has always been focused on, around, or after the OT.
When they labeled it Legends they still had books, comics, and short stories releasing about that time.
I think because The Clone Wars was going so damn strong, many lose sight of that fact.
Sure, that era wasn’t in the mainstream publics view, but it was still alive and well.
Looking at it since the buy, BOOM! TCW is dead, replaced by Rebels (which I’ve only seen the pilot “movie” of but I really fuckin’ dug).
Most of the Novels and Comics they’ve announced have been OT centric.
With a now wide open continuity that desperately needs to be filled, it seems rather dumb to to just focus on the OT era because a group of folks shit on the PT.
There are folks like me that love that time.
I mean, come on, even if you don’t focus on the Skywalker family or the movie characters. The PT took place over 10 – 15 years, the OT took place over like 6 years…which one has more room for stories?
Now you bring up the most interesting point to me, the OT having haters.
As I’ve delved deeper into Star Wars and my Star Wars fandom, I’ve found it confounding that nobody seems to recall (and I’ve read old articles and shit to back it up) that after Episode IV came out a whole lot of people loved it…BUT, they thought 3PO and R2 were kind of annoying and useless.
It wasn’t until Empire that folks really embraced them, by the time Jedi had introduced Ewoks they were beloved old friends.
But you mention that too folks and they call bullshit.
The other thing I mean from a production standpoint, they keep pushing how they’re making them with practical effects. 1.
Motherfuckers, rewatch Episode I!
That had practical effects out the ass.
This is one of the few things I’ll take Lucas to task over because he fucked himself by pushing that they were using digital effects, in doing so he made it seem they turned their back on the old way of filmmaking.
That is a myth I wish folks would pull their heads out of their asses and realize.
I wish they’d also realise how much primitive digital wizardry was in the OT.
2. Who gives a shit if they use digital effects???
Nobody bitches about digital effects in any other franchise but it seems Lucasfilm should be cuffed to the old ways.
While I just busted his balls in my last paragraph, I’m gonna prop Lucas up here.
He has always been an innovator of technology.
Without George Lucas we would NOT have Avengers, Gaurdians Of The Galaxy, or any other HUGE blockbuster from the last…fuck, 15 years.
So why must Star Wars use rubber but everybody else gets to use CG?
Even Star Trek, for fucksake!
Nobody gives a shit about CG there, so the internets old arguement of “because it was always practical” holds absolutely no water.
I think I covered all that I wanted too…lol
@Fitzman73: I agree to an extent about the practical versus digital effects.
I think they did go a little too far down the digital road on the prequels because they WERE trying to push the limits and show what technology could do and in most ways I think the effects blew people’s minds.
They did have some practical effects, some of which blended in very well (the C-3PO marionette in ep 1 for instance) and some that didn’t work so well (the disgusting Yoda puppet in Ep 1 that to me did not work at all).
But for me if I have a gripe about the digital effects it’s really not so much the effects it’s just the very sterile “digitalness” of most of the sets and environments.
A great many of the sets in those movies were either all or mostly greenscreen.
And some of it was replaced with actual footage of a live environment like some of the outdoor Naboo stuff but to me very little of that really felt like the actors were IN that environment.
It all looked fabulous but there wasn’t much that I thought felt tangible like an actor could actually reach out and touch.
Plus as was said some of the faults that you can find are directly related to the state of the CG tech at the the time (which they were literally creating as they went, something GL doesn’t get enough credit for).
If they were to use those same techniques in Ep7 that movie would look infinitely better than the PT just based on the improvement in CG.
But I do like the way they’re trying to go back to more practical effects and use digital where it will make the film better and not just as an exercise in CG animation.
Like the little alien puppet thing in the first JJ EP7 teaser spot from way back.
Could they have done that as CG?
Does the puppet, to me, work better?
I think so.
There’s something more magical to me about making a physical, tangible pile of inanimate material see like a real living thing than just doing it in a computer.
There’s something very cool about that whole craft to me and it’s something I hope will never be allowed to die so long as talented people can still fool me or at least trick my eyes enough to make a puppet seem real.
I think this focus on the OT in the ramp up to the ST really is more about hey this is where the ST is picking up from.
The story I think will have way less to do with the characters and events of the PT so they want to really make ep7 feel like a direct link to EP6 and not ep3 if that makes any sense.
And further I think after ep7 you’ll see the focus on OT drop WAY down and everything will be ST focused.
It’s all about what they’re currently selling.
Ep7 isn’t out yet so the closest thing is the OT so let’s pound people over the head until ep7 comes out and then we’ll pound people over the head with these new characters until ep8 comes out.
That’s kind of how I see it.
ThatScoobyDoom: I definetly don’t want to come of as the dude that hates practical effects, I don’t.
I think the CG fits better in the prequels as they were trying to create a vibrant universe at it’s peak.
In hindsight, based on how the saga has developed and come together, the practical effects fit the originals better as that is a galaxy in the firm grip of a visious dictator.
It adds another level to those movies, you can feel the decay and disrepair and maybe a bit of hopelessness of a dictatorship that doesn’t really give a shit about its citizens.
I honestly don’t see a problem with enhancing a set with CG, or a fully CG set.
I mean, come on, you can create that shit in a computer while they are shooting and make it as richly detail as a real set.
I guess the point I’m trying to make is I hate these motherfuckers that say”I love Star Wars!…except the Prequels…and Episode IV was kinda boring…and what the fuck is up with the little teddy bears in Jedi? Them books are stupid too.”
I’m like “bitch, you like 1 movie. You don’t like Star Wars, shut the fuck up.” …and based on the conversation we had on Twitter yesterday, just let me say, I’m not talking about @JoinedToFollow…the little fucker!
Yeah, I’d agree with that.
Seems rather weird though.
I do also wonder why they don’t start trying to fill in the time between the OT and the ST.
You’d think they’d want to tease a bit of where things have gone and maybe try and build excitement for the story, but I guess the arguement could be made that it’s Star Wars and it has excitement just because it is what it is.
@Fitzman73: Well actually some people think that there are a few things in Rebels that may already be teasing things to come.
Oh and I totally agree, nothing wrong with using CG to enhance sets and so on, but I think you nailed exactly what I was trying to get at in a way more to the point way.
Practical effects and sets seem to fit better as far as a visual progression goes between the trilogies.
Can you elaborate on that?
But see, 30 years after the oppression of Sidious, I would like to think the galaxy has begun to rebound a bit.
I’m not stupid, I don’t think it should be back to the same state as it was at the start of the Clone War, but on the way back too that.
So if they try to keep away from CG I’m gonna be a wee bit disappointed.
@Fitzman73: I think they’ll still use plenty of CG.
I think some of that no CG talk is just to placate the critics of the prequels.
I also think that part of why Lucas used so many digital sets and so few practical sets is budget.
Don’t forget those were the most expensive “independent” films ever made.
He bankrolled all that himself (another unbelievably pimp move on his part) so I would imagine it’s way cheaper to digitally paint these giant elaborate sets than to build them.
That’s my guess anyway.
JJ is playing with Disney money now so budget is probably not as much of a concern.
It’s probably not true but there’s speculation that the bad guys in EP7 are somehow related to the Inquisitor from Rebels.
Like maybe he was just one of many that Vader employed and that some of these guys have survived until ep7.
Also some speculation that perhaps some of these characters or their offspring may be in ep7.
And that bit is true too, you can save on set dressing, props, and construction by saying “hey you by the computer, create me a landing pad on Lava planet” instead of building the damn thing.
That sir, isn’t a guess. Plus it save time during production.
Yeah, it’ll be interesting to see how that sweet fat Disney money is used.
I could see that, and you never know.
These guys may take up the mantle of Sith once Vader and Sidious died.
So what do you think of the title?
@Fitzman73: It’s ok.
It’s not as earth shatteringly cool as I thought it would be, but it fits the other film titles fine and given some of the rumors flying around it makes sense that this was be what they chose
ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, I didn’t find it particularly great or bad…probably because we don’t know much about the movie.
Like with the MARVEL movies, I’d be harsher on those because I know what’s going on in that world.
I don’t find the title as hilarious as everybody seems too.
Scratch the surface and it must mean the force has fallen out of usage even more so than it had between the other 2 trilogies…no?
@Fitzman73: Without directly addressing some of the rumors we’ve heard, it does seem like they’re going the opposite direction of the EU.
If you think about it, it makes sense.
Sidious managed to cloud the Force so much that the old Jedi were really having trouble tapping into it and they even say at one point their abilities had been weakened by the shroud of the dark side.
Which is one reason why there’s such a power discrepancy between Luke in RotJ and basically any other Jedi ever depicted on screen. Lol. Compared to all of the prior Jedi Luke is really a scrub in terms of force ability.
So it’s like Palpatine completely turned of the light side of the Force or at least throttled it.
Now with ep7 (and this is backed up by numerous rumor reports) Palpatine is dead and that filter or whatever he had put on the Force at some point between EP6 and 7 goes away and the Force floods back full strength and was maybe be too much for Luke to handle.
ThatScoobyDoom: I’m dancing around that particular rumor too, and I want to be clear that the following is just a theory I came up with based solely on the title and not that rumor.
But what I mean specifcally, and sort of to your point, that “shroud” was placed on the light side but with Order 66 there aren’t many Jedi left to tap into the light side anyway.
I would think it’s safe to say that the Jedi that survived the purge may have tried training Padawans the same as Kanaan seems to be doing with Ezra on Rebels.
But since we know of no other Jedi lets just pretend that at the end of Jedi Luke is the last of the Jedi.
By the time Luke had heard of The Force it had been looked at as a “Hookey Religion” if I remember Han right, at that point we know Yoda and Obi-Wan are still out there.
Post Jedi, there’s just Luke.
Now my theory is what if The Force Awakens is about some completely untrained Force wielder (much like Anakin in Episode I, just to give you a reference point) finds old holocrons, Jedi or Sith, it matters not which, and that is what the title is refering too.
This new being is the reawakening of the now mythical Force.
Thoughts on that?
@Fitzman73: That could be, that’s a pretty good theory.
Going back to the leftover jedi for a minute.
I think definitely there are some out there still who try to train force sensitive people but because of that weakening in the light side or the difficulty in tapping into it, you’ll never see a jedi in the OT era or Rebels the same power level as PT Jedi.
And I think that’s exactly something that will be explored in Rebels and I think it is all leading up to whatever is going to happen in ep7.
ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, I don’t really think we’ll ever see that level of finesse and showmanship again from a Jedi.
Even if they could get ahold of some of the old teachings from the Jedi Temple (which keep in mind, we know is still standing thanks to the Special Edition of Jedi) or some Holovid of the old ways of lightsaber combat, with every Jedi of that time dead by the point of the ST it’s highly unlikely…unless of course another Jedi of Yoda’s species has survived and lived long enough to do that level of training.
But that might feel like retreading the old waters too much.
I doubt they would go back down that road.
Plus really Luke ultimately went against both the Sith and the Jedi in the end.
The Jedi believed the only way to win was to kill Vader.
But he chose another path and was proven right.
So I think, while the new Jedi Order stuff in the EU was intriguing at the time, if you really think about it, it seems really unlikely that he would bring back the kind of Jedi Order that existed in the PT era or really be interested in training other Jedi (except maybe Leia).
And again without getting to spoilery about ep7 I think that’s kinda what we’ll see.
ThatScoobyDoom: Maybe not bring back the order the way it was but you don’t think Luke might look for Force sensitives and try to keep them away from going to the dark side?
It’s not like you need to be trained by a Sith to go dark.
I could see some poor kid on a back water being treated like shit by his family and community not knowing the struggle between the light and dark sides getting feed up and going dark.
@Fitzman73: Yeah I think that’s a possibility too.
I don’t think he would’ve completely turned his back on the responsibility of being the last of the Jedi but I definitely think he would not have rushed off and done anything large scale like open a new academy and take in a dozen students to teach all by himself.
That seems dangerous too.
ThatScoobyDoom: Very very true.
And keep in mind, we know that there was a Holocron during the Clone Wars that had a list of Force sensitive kids around the Galaxy.
It does make me wonder if between Episode III and Episode VI if Sidious and Vader may have been hunting down those kids to exterminate them.
After ordering Vader to kill all the younglings in the Temple, it isn’t out of the realm of possibility.
@Fitzman73: Funny you bring that up, because as they’re starting to reveal in Rebels, that’s basically what they’re doing.
And by the time of Rebels it may be that they’ve already gone through all of their lists and now the Inquisitor is responding to any report of suspicious activity that may he force related and eliminating it.
ThatScoobyDoom: Oh well…I guess it should be stated that I’ve only seen that pilot “movie”. That’s kinda cool to hear.
Speaking of Rebels, something I wondered about that was if they’d bring in Starkiller.
If I remember right, when The Force Unleashed games came out they did call them official canon.
I know with the wipe that they aren’t anymore, but it would be interesting to see that character pop up and have the Sam Witwer play him again.
@Fitzman73: Yeah I’m not sure where that stands in the new canon.
But Filoni and his people are not afraid to bring in characters and concepts from the EU when it’s appropriate or fits what is happening, so who knows?
How close to ep3 does that take place?
I think Rebels is 15 years after or 5 or so before ep 4 something like that.
I think it’s much more likely (and spoilers, gonna happen) that we’ll be seeing actual OT film characters making appearances.
I’m not sure how Starkiller would fit in, he’d definitely need to be nerfed though.
I doubt it would fit well for him to be telekinetically throwing moons and Star Destroyers around in the show.
ThatScoobyDoom: I’m not 100% sure, but I think Vader found him just after Episode III.
So he’d be a teen by that point.
But see, the thing about Filoni and crew is that, and this does anger some and some don’t really give a damn about it, yeah, they’ve taken characters from the EU and brought them in…but not exactly the way they appeared in the EU.
I don’t know if you heard about it or not, but at one point just a few years ago there was a bit of a stink where Karen Traviss kinda got a wee bit pissed because she had built up this whole story and continuity for the Mandalorians that included a rich history.
Well, She was writing another Republic or Imperial Commando novel during the time of Clone Wars’ second season and she just kinda left Lucas Books/Del Rey because the series just kinda shit all over what she had put so much time into.
Another example I can think of is Kit Fisto in The Cestus Deception
In that he was kinda distant, reserved, and having an internal struggle about his seeming blood lust based on the Lightsaber form he used.
Now look at how he was on The Clone Wars…Happy, always smiling, and kinda fun loving.
That did piss some folks off.
So you see, they could use Starkiller and change his background a little.
Now, that might cause a bigger stir amongst fans since he had a bigger, more well know role than Master Fisto did…but still.
@Fitzman73: Yeah I remember the Karen Travis dust up.
Unfortunately the thing that people seem to forget, fans and apparently authors as well sometimes, is that while the EU might be nice stories to read, if Lucas himself doesn’t acknowledge it as canon (which he consistently never did except in a couple of special cases) then it’s not official canon and it’s subject to change at any time.
The problem is that GL didn’t give enough of a shit about the books to keep them under any kind of continuity control.
They just gave out the licenses to these publishers and said have fun, make us all a lot of money.
And while Lucasfilm was able to set some parameters as to what was off limits for the EU, for the most part they just let everyone do whatever they wanted.
Which resulted, in my opinion, in some really cool fiction set in the Star Wars universe and some really SHITTY fiction that didn’t feel like Star Wars at all.
At the end of the day this is/was Lucas’ creation so if he decides Greedo shot first or that Kit Fisto is different than some author’s interpretation of him, then that’s his right.
Nothing got on Clone Wars that did not come directly from him through Dave Filoni or at the very least had his express signoff.
Now that GL is out, it’s people like Dave Filoni who trained at the feet of the Maker himself that will be in charge of carrying on the spirit of his original vision.
Not to mention his handpicked successor Kathleen Kennedy.
So if the things they do upset some “fans” then, well, tough.
It sucks that they were so invested in something that was always meant as just an extension of the films and/or filler material to flesh out some of the situations and characters in them that Lucasfilm probably never anticipated fleshing out themselves when they greenlit those projects but really everyone should have learned a long time ago (go read Splinter of the Mind’s Eye) that EU novels should always be taken as fun works of fiction.
I’ll stop ranting now that I’ve probably made thousands of enemies. Lol.
ThatScoobyDoom: They did sorta have a bit of continuity control over the Del Rey books, I think that was Leland Chee’s job.
I know they had to clear Chewie’s death with George all those years ago too, so there was some form of control/care over it.
But I get what you’re saying.
But I will say this, the edict that I always heard was that everything was continuity until Lucas said otherwise in movies or TCW.
So I can understand some of the attachment and anger that folks felt.
And I do agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of GL.
That’s the thing I never understood about the fandom’s anger at the shit he did.
He created it and he had to live with it, because like it or not, Star Wars is the biggest legacy he will leave on this planet.
So if he wants to add an 8 foot CGI cock running around Mos Eisley spraying jizz on every droid it crosses he can.
Now would I be mad about it? …well no, but I would think it’s time somebody found him a nice senior home to move too.
Out of all the changes the dude made to the movies the only one that struck me as odd was making the Ewoks blink.
Seemed unnecessary and it sticks out like a sore dick.
About Filoni, he strikes me a little odd.
He seems to care about the franchise just as much as George does and he seems like he’d be truly disappointed in himself if he got a call from George saying he didn’t like something they did.
I trust in his leadership, I’d love to see him direct a movie too.
Rant away, man.
Somebody has to take some heat away from my bitching earlier!
You are my lamb to the slaughter!
@Fitzman73: I actually didn’t mind the ewoks blinking.
When I heard they were doing that I was like what the fuck seriously? Why?
I was sure I’d be bothered by it but honestly it wasn’t that noticeable to me.
It’s not like what I was afraid of that they’d all be constantly blinking the whole time in every scene.
I think it only happens a few times doesn’t it?
I was way more bugged by the CG rock that R2 is now hiding behind in ep4.
It just looked wrong to me.
That’s definitely for me unnecessary.
Most of the changes I had no problem with, and if you read those Rinzler making of books you can see that most of the things he eventually changed have been bothering him since the films were made.
There were a LOT of things that didn’t turn out to his liking so it doesn’t surprise me that when he was able to fix something years later that he would.
What makes it bad is that we’re all so used to it the way it was that now it looks weird.
ThatScoobyDoom: It was a decent amount of blinks, not alot but still.
It’ll be no big deal for future generations.
I never read those making of books but I knew most of that shit bugged him.
I’ll never be mad at the changes since I only saw the first cuts like once.
@Fitzman73: Yeah it’s great.
In those books there are hand written notes and audio transcripts of production meetings where he’s bitching about a lot of those things even back then.
And how much stuff had to be scrapped because it looked like shit, wouldn’t work, or was deemed too expensive or time consuming to even attempt.
I like a good many of the changes he’s made, only a few that kinda bug me.
None of them make me want to murder George Lucas.
I just don’t get how some people are that irate.
ThatScoobyDoom: I bet.
I know he loves the movie but they were a huge cause of frustration for him.
Yeah, looking back, that whole “raped my childhood” may have kept me from getting into Star Wars.
I remember thinking that “if these idiots think adding some CG monsters in the background of shots is raping their childhoods I don’t wanna be a part of a group like that.”
Here’s something I meant to ask you last time: Including The Clone Wars and the EU, who is your favorite character in the entire saga?
@Fitzman73: Yeah there’s a huge chasm of difference between a normal human reacting to possible disappointment with the prequels and “you raped my childhood”.
It’s disrespectful to someone who allegedly gave you so much happiness as a child and also embarrassing for the entire community quite frankly.
People like Patton Oswalt and Simon Pegg should fuck right off.
Favorite character in the whole saga?
I know this is going to sound lame and totally not interesting but probably Luke.
I identified with him so much.
The kid with no friends, or whose friends all move away on to more exciting times while you’re stuck in the same shit hole.
The you find out you’re actually very special and the whole galaxy needs you and you eventually discover all these abilities that you have.
I don’t know, pretty vanilla answer but there ya go
ThatScoobyDoom: Totally, they made you all seem like a bunch of douchebags.
Those mouthy motherfuckers even outshine all the good that the 501st does, which is a fuck load.
I like Pegg, but agree on Oswald.
Had no clue they were in that camp.
Not at all, Luke has probably the best arc of the saga.
Probably even better than Anakin since Luke goes through so damn much in a total of like 6 years.
Anakin’s arc is over close to 40 years.
For me, it’s Obi-Wan.
And that’s mostly because of Ewan McGregor and James Arnold Taylor making him a real, grounded person.
Not saying Sir Alec Guinness did a bad job but his version told us Obi-Wan was great, the early version showed us.
@Fitzman73: Yeah I like Obi Wan too.
You’re right though, Guiness was great but his role was so small it’s really the other actors that flesh him out.
He defined the end product that was Obi Wan at 60, and the others showed you how he got there.
Of course hearing that he hated Star Wars with all his heart and was a downright nasty cunt about it has forever tainted my view of Alec Guiness
ThatScoobyDoom: Aye, there is that too.
Harrison Ford seemed to hate the fuck outta Star Wars too up until Episode VII was announced.
I don’t know if it’s true or not but I’d heard of him walking out of interviews and shit when folks would bring it up.
@Fitzman73: I’ve never heard that he walked out but he definitely is not a fan of talking about Star Wars.
Ewan McGregor has had his share of “this stuff is crap” quotes too but he’s taken them back.
I think they’re both just crabby fucks and much like Alec Guiness they just don’t “get it”.
That it could be that important to someone.
I think Ford was starting to soften before ep7 was announced but without a doubt he was the final holdout to sign on.
I’ll lay $100 out right now that part of his deal was that Solo dies preferably for him in the first film.
I don’t think he’d be interested in coming back for 3 more movies.
Yet, he can’t wait to do another Indiana Jones movie and thinks those are far superior to Star Wars.
So, go figure. (Disclaimer: I love Indiana Jones too, I just can’t imagine thinking of the two that that franchise is better)
ThatScoobyDoom: I think on McGregor’s end it may have been jokes, or else he just liked the fame the franchise brought him. Cause since Episode III, he has said a few times he’d be down to play Obi-Wan again.
When that rumor of an Obi-Wan trilogy came up I heard he was asked and said something like he hadn’t heard that but he’d love to do it.
I don’t think that’s a wild guess at all, he’s made it clear many times in the 30 years since Jedi that he wanted Han to die in the carbon freeze.
At the most, I’d expect him to be in VIII and die there.
I think the difference between the 2 for him may well be that with Indy he is THE star and not a star among stars.
That and he gets to do far more with a whip than he ever did with a blaster.
That must be more fun and challenging for him as an actor.
@Fitzman73: Yeah true.
I just wish he showed a little more affection for the role that without which he’d be a broken down carpenter by now instead of one of the most bankable movie stars of all time.
I’ll never understand why famous folks grow to hate the roles that make the famous.
Speaking of Indy, are you at all interested in Indy 5?
@Fitzman73: Fuck yeah, of course. Unlike a lot of people I actually had very few problems with Indy 4.
I didn’t feel like it was any more corny or silly than any of the others.
Spielberg was clearly going for a 50s B-Movie feel.
And the fridge? Genius.
So yeah bring on more of that shit.
ThatScoobyDoom: Oh my god…FUCKIN’, THANK YOU!!! I saw so many motherfuckers get so excited when they announced it was gonna be a 50’s Sci-Fi B-Movie and then it came out and I saw those same stupid pieces of shit say “what the fuck??? This is like some shitty 50’s Sci-Fi B-Movie, thanks alot Lucas!” and it makes me fuckin’ CRAZY!
I take a lot of shit on this here interwebs for not only defending that movie but for loving it!
How are interdimensional beings any wackier than a damn gold casket that holds the face melting power of god???
Did you see that report a month or two back that said they’d hired a cinematographer?
@Fitzman73: I know right?
It’s not a perfect movie and the script is just ok but come on it was fun.
I think some people just want to hate anything Spielberg or Lucas put out because it’s not as good as what they did in the 70s.
But it’s still as good or better than most of the piece of shit action movies around today so what the fuck?
And you know what?
I liked LaBeouf in that movie.
There, I said it.
So what wanna fight about it?
I thought he was a decent foil of Harrison Ford.
Was he Short Round? No.
Was he Sallah? No.
But he was fine.
The gag with the quicksand and the snake, I thought that was awesome.
Was Cate Blanchett way over the top and “arch”? Yep. And she was supposed to be.
And that was my point too, how is a flying saucer less believable than magic rocks and a goddam immortal knight guarding the cup of Christ?
It’s insanity to call bullshit on aliens.
Which quite frankly are WAY more likely to exist than all the magicd powers those other religion based mcguffins were supposed to have.
Haters gonna hate.
Plain and simple.
No I hadn’t seen they hired a cinematographer.
The last thing I saw was that they had a script and Ford said let’s do it.
ThatScoobyDoom: I have nothing to add to that.
I agree 1,000,000X over.
I think Crystal Skull is far superior to Temple of Doom.
I actually had that same arguement with my buddy Ross. He was kinda bristling against the aliens and I brought up the 300+ year old Knight.
And that was another of those movies that folks bitched about the CG in, it’s just a tired argument at this point.
Yeah, it didn’t get much mainstream attention.
It was in some production notes some where that the dude was offered something else but he had to passdue to Indy 5…or something like that.
Here’s the link to that http://www.slashfilm.com/janusz-kaminski-indidna-jones-5/
If that rumor of him only signing on to Ep VII if they’d do Indy 5 is true, that makes me happy.
@Fitzman73: Yeah that’s what I heard too was that Indy 5 had to be a go before he’d agree to ep7.
Better than Temple Of Doom?
I wouldn’t go that far but still.
It’s a decent flick.
I’m glad they’re likely not including LaBeouf like they originally planned now that he’s gone batshit crazy, but at the time I was in the tank for him being Indy’s new sidekick/replacement
ThatScoobyDoom: I hope that’s true.
I was really let down by Temple of Doom, mostly cause of that chick that Stewie as Short Round oh so eloquently stated “Rady onry here cause she humpin’ director”.
She just drug that flick down.
4 on the other hand had Marion’s, that alone gives it the edge cause I like Karen Allen.
Always thought she was pretty cute.
@Fitzman73: Yeah except I don’t think they were together until after they did that movie.
Either way, yeah she was annoying but that’s how she was written.
Agreed, Karen Allen for the win.
ThatScoobyDoom: While that’s true, I’m sure they could have picked a better actress…cause she was damn near unbearable for me.
@Fitzman73: Were you ever into Young Indiana Jones Chronicles?
I’ve tried several times but I just can’t get into it.
ThatScoobyDoom: I don’t think I watched it when it aired, but I sorta remember seeing an episode or 2 along the way and thinking it wasn’t bad.
That’s really as far as it went for me.
I’d love to give it a shot on DVD but last I saw them they were criminally expensive.
Have you read any of the novels?
@Fitzman73: No, never read the novels.
Played the video games though. Lol.
ThatScoobyDoom: You, and anybody else that may stumble across and read this, need to read these 6 Indy novels if you truly like the character and want more adventures.
Rob MacGregor crafted a fun world that has all of the elements that made the movies fun.
Action, Adventure, Romance, and even a wee bit of Comedy at times.
Did you play Staff Of Kings?
@Fitzman73: Cool I’ll check those out.
I’m not sure which system was that one for?
I know I played the Trilogy game on SNES and Infernal Machine, and Emperor’s Tomb on the first Xbox
ThatScoobyDoom: That was the one that they made a HUGE deal about because it was gonna be on the PS3 & 360, it had a huge talk up at E3 in 2007 or 2008…and then they cancelled it on the then Next Gen consoles and made it for PS2, and maybe Xbox, and released it in 2009.
It was fuckin’ nuts how it happened.
The reason I knew so much about it was that, surprise surprise, Rob MacGregor wrote a novelization of it that got shelved.
@Fitzman73: Oh yeah I think I remember that actually.
ThatScoobyDoom: It’s a pretty fun game but it would’ve been better if they’d finished it the way they intended…kinda like Clone Wars, to bring it back to Star Wars.
@Fitzman73: Or KoTOR 2, they clearly ran out of time/money/energy on that one.
It just suddenly ends.
There’s all this effort to get to the final “boss” and you beat them super fast and then get a hokey cut scene and that’s it.
Like, what the fuck that’s it?
Did I just beat the game?
ThatScoobyDoom: I’ve only begun to scratch the surface of KoTOR 2, but motherfucker…how awesome was the first one?
I’m not a big computer gamer, but I played that on my laptop and it was one of the most fulfilling game experiences I’ve ever had.
Just amazing amounts of pure fuckin’ fun, man.
@Fitzman73: Believe it or not that’s the whole reason I wanted an Xbox.
I put one on our wedding registry as a joke in 2003 and shit you not my best friend growing up bought for me.
It was totally unexpected and awesome and the first thing I did was go out and buy KoTOR 1.
That game was tits.
One of these days I need to get it back out and play it again.
The mechanics were so cool.
I’ve always been into pen and paper RPGs and the mechanics and upgrade system were clearly based on the d20 Star Wars RPG that Wizards of the Coast had recently put out.
So much fun.
KoTOR 2 was great too it was just WAY too short and like I said it just ended out of nowhere.
ThatScoobyDoom: I’ve been down with Playstation since the first, never could get into Xbox.
Not being into Star Wars at the time, I never knew that was on there.
Had I been into Star Wars that may be different.
Those pen and paper RPG’s, what’s that stuff like?
I’ve never really had friends and that shit didn’t sound like something I could do all on my onesies.
It’s weird to think of KoTOR 2 as a short game cause it was a bitch and a half to be able to find a laptop I could play it on, the size of it is fuckin’ huge.
@Fitzman73: Yeah at least I remember feeling like it ended abruptly or at an awkward point in the game, it just felt rushed at the end.
Then I did read in a game magazine that a lot of people felt the same and that’s when it came out that yeah there was a different ending planned but it didn’t work out.
Pen and paper RPGs are definitely not a solo thing except in a few rare cases.
You can find a few D&D published adventures that you can play solo but overall they just don’t work that way.
If you have a local game shop it should be easy to hook up with an existing gaming group that’s looking for new players.
Sometimes game shops even have drop in nights where you just show up and play in the store.
I haven’t actively played in years but I still like to peruse the old (and new) rulebooks and supplements.
There’s all manner of game systems and worlds/settings to pick from.
ThatScoobyDoom: I keep threatening to go back to it, I started playing it like a year and a half ago and then just put it aside for some reason, maybe cause my shit got in the way.
Yeah, that kinda sounds like exactly the opposite of what I’d do.
Remember that whole “not alot of friends” thing I said?
Is that shit as complicated as it sounds?
@Fitzman73: It can be.
It can also be super simple.
They range everywhere from Dungeons & Dragons with tons of stats and options and rules and multiple guides and rulebooks and shit all the way down to something like Savage Worlds where there’s literally ONE rulebook for the whole system and it’s like less than 100 pages and you can just make up rules as you play.
But I mean basically they’re all the same at the end of the day.
One guy is the “game master” (or “dungeon master” in D&D, everyone else plays a character in the “story” or adventure.
You use a defined method to create a character and assign abilities and stats (usually by rolling dice) and then the game starts.
The GM tells you what’s happening then you and the other players react and roll dice to see what the results of those actions are.
You get points at the end of the game session usually that you then use to advance your character’s abilities, money to buy new equipment, etc.
There’s tons of variations but that’s the most common formula for an RPG.
If you’re looking to get your feet wet keep an eye out for the basic D&D “red box” set that TSR published in 1983.
Very simple stripped down rules, easy to understand, and it was the gateway drug for countless gamers. (And I use “gamer” in its originally intended way, not the “gamer” that people use nowadays to refer to “video game players”)
ThatScoobyDoom: That all really does sound super complicated to me…but fun!
I find it fascinating that 4-10 fuckers will go in a room and get lost in another world for hours without a goddamn screen to grab and hold their attention.
It’s part of the appeal of reading to me, that you can grab these pieces of paper that are glued together that have scribbles on them and be transported to worlds filled with giant koala fish mutants and have an experience without lights flashing and explosions going off externally.
It’s all in your mind, stimulating your brain in it’s own unique way.
You can have 6 people playing the same exact game, all hearing the same things, all being told the same shit, and yet, each and everyone of those 6 has a different experience based on their own individual imaginations and experiences leading up to that game.
That’s true fuckin’ magic, man.
@Fitzman73: Definitely, it’s collaborative story telling really.
And there are some game systems that are pure storytelling, that is, rolling dice never even enters the equation.
It can be very fun, it can also be boring as shit if done poorly which unfortunately happens a lot.
ThatScoobyDoom: In those cases it’s probably because there are some folks involved that don’t have much creativity in the first place.
I’d like to think it wouldn’t be all too difficult to create some fun shit, but then it’s kinda gotta be hard to go to a place where you can just go full nerd and unleash that shit from your mind around folks.
@Fitzman73: It’s pretty rewarding though.
Or, you could go another direction and play tabletop RPGs like Warhammer 40k or Blood Bowl or that new Star Wars Armada game. Which are all reallt just super fancy and advanced versions of Stratego. Lol.
ThatScoobyDoom: I never played Stratego either.
But I’m always down for anything if it says Star Wars on the box.
@Fitzman73: No Stratego?
What the fuck?
You kids and your growing up on video games. Geez.
Speaking of board games they even have really complicated and wicked board games around now too.
Like there’s a Call Of Cthuhlu game and Battle Star Galactica and all kinds of shit.
Never actually found anyone to play them and they’re all over $50 so needless to say I’ve never bought one either.
But heard a lot about them
ThatScoobyDoom: Bitch, I was playing Battleship, Monopoly, and shit like that.
Don’t you start on me with your “get off my lawn bullshit”!
I have Scooby-Doo Monopoly!
I never had anybody to play board games and shit with so I never got into them, though I’ve seen hundreds of games I’d love to try.
Walking Dead game
Alot of trivia and shit too. Like, I have Family Guy Trivial Pursuit, never “played” it.
Just flipped through the cards and been like “knew that…knew that…”.
Call of Cthulhu?
I’d like to take a whirl at that one.
I’ve never read any Lovecraft but it all sounds super cool and fucked up.
I never got into B*G as the kids call it.
There was a Smallville RPG that sounded fuckin’ pimp too.
@Fitzman73: Oh good I thought maybe you were a pod person, but if you’ve played those games then you’re clean.
I had to look up that Cthulhu game, the name was escaping me.
It’s called Arkham Horror.
Basically you’re trying to keep one of the great old ones from coming into our reality and destoying the world.
Here’s the wiki
I can’t recommend Lovecraft enough.
Very creepy moody stuff.
Call of Cthulhu, Shadow Over Innsmouth, and The Ipswich Horror being my favorites.
And it’s all written in very old fashioned, proper New England English, and in first person usually or via a narrator character.
They’re all surprisingly short too, all short story form.
I think you can find them free online like Sherlock Holmes because they’re out of copyright or some shit.
When I wrote a short story to submit to the TESD horror anthology that never came about, I tried a style similar to Lovecraft.
Well, similar in my head.
In reality it was just pretty shitty hacky story.
I’m actually glad I never got to submit it. Lol.
The thing about Lovecraft, and horror in general, is that I’ve read alot of horror, mostly zombie shit,and it all just comes off laughable and boring too me.
Hell, even the 2 semi-horror videos I’ve made are laughable too me.
In my opinion, horror works best in a visual medium where you can’t control what your mind sees.
Comics, Games, Movies, it works.
But prose, it tends to get lost in the description.
Star Wars Red Harvest is a good example of that.
Shit like “The shambling bodies shuffled slowly towards me, dried blood staining their clothes. Dragging his left foot, the lead creature unleashed a low growl…” just makes me giggle.
@Fitzman73: Oh Lovecraft isn’t like that.
It’s very much about feeling isolated and confronted by bizarre creatures and shit.
It’s almost more sci-fi that horror really.
It’s more psychological horror and less shambling monsters. Lol
ThatScoobyDoom: I may have to look into that. It sounds cool but I’ve always been afraid it’d suck.
That episode of Scooby-Doo Mystery Incorporated that parodied Cthulu was pretty good, Char Gar Gothicon: The Beast That Hath No Name was that creature. Was cool.
@Fitzman73: I don’t think you’d think it sucks, but it is old so it can be kind of predictable since a lot of the tropes that he basically invented have been copied so much over the years.
Also, the subject matter, the cosmic evils and ancient monster gods, and black magic, while very shocking and bizarre for the time are honestly really tame by today’s standards.
But to me that’s what makes the stories cool is to know that some deranged lunatic came up with these fever dreams like 100 years ago and how everyone at the time absolutely hated him and his stories.
They were seen at best as garbage and at worst as the ravings of a mentally ill person.
Which, bringing it back to George Lucas again, I guess I’m always impressed by artists that are ahead of their time, or who are such geniuses that the general population can’t see the genius and only see crazy.
Oh and speaking off Cthulhu references with that Scooby-Doo episode, ever hear Metallica’s “The Thing That Should Not Be” off Master of Puppets? Total homage to Lovecraft. (They also named the instrumental on Ride the Lightening “Call of Ktulu”)
ThatScoobyDoom: I don’t think the age will bother me, I read the original Sherlock Holmes stories and those have been done to death 10 times over.
MONK specifically had retread that territory and improved upon it in some ways.
If you’re a talented writer that can, and often times will, shine through the ages no matter how much time passes.
It’s the same with Stan Lee, when he was creating all that shit he was looked at as just a loser writing lowly comic books.
That has since changed and he’s gotten his due.
Sadly, George got his time in the sun and has since been raked over the coals.
Hopefully he gets to enjoy one more period of love before his time on this godforsaken rock is done.
Hmm, I’m not sure if I have heard that one.
I’m not the worlds biggest Metallica fan.
@Fitzman73: It’ll never happen because it’s not his bag, but it’d be cool to see George do the con circuit.
Well, nobody’s perfect. Lol.
ThatScoobyDoom: Oh, that’ll never fuckin’ happen!
If he has a brain in his goddamn head he’d never do con’s.
As crazy a people are and as much hate as he got, no chance in hell.
I like there hits, but I never went deeper than that.
Mostly cause a few members seem like major assholes and I can’t support that.
@Fitzman73: Nah, I don’t think any of them are assholes per se.
I think the Napster thing could’ve been handled better, but I don’t see any of them as assholes.
I think their biggest problem personality wise was just years of alcoholism.
If you get a chance you should check out the documentary Some Kind Of Monster.
It followed them during the recording of St. Anger when their disfunction was at its peak and they actually brought in a shrink to help them.
It’s a pretty interesting insight into how damaged they all are.
Coming from nothing, poor and sometimes abusive family lives, to be this underground sensation of ugly misanthropes playing a style of music that was just a step ahead of all the other metal at the time, dealing with a tragic loss, powering through that loss and morphing into this monster massively popular band and then kind of hitting a wall and (once again bringing it back to Star Wars) suddenly getting shit on by people who used to love them because now they were making something that didnt quite live up to expectations.
I’m now going to call that “getting Lucas’d”.
ThatScoobyDoom: Lars just seems like a dick ta me.
I may have seen that on VH1 Classics once during one of their periods of METAL UP YOUR ASS!!!
It is weird the way some folks though cutting their hair and trying something slightly different than what they did before was selling out.
Proving once again people are fuckin’ dumb.
Not every band can have the AC/DC career of maintaining the same basic sound while still finding new things to do within that sound.
@Fitzman73: Right and not all artists WANT to.
That was their whole thing was like hey, this is what we like at the moment this is where our creative hearts are at, sorry we’re trying new shit.
The hair cutting did bother me at the time I will admit. Lol.
But looking back, it was time.
It had to go.
ThatScoobyDoom: Most artists don’t want to do the same type of thing, most famously would have to be KISS.
They dropped the make up and tried ta go just a little softer and people lost their fuckin’ minds over it.
The look of a band has never been important to me, man.
I know some folks got pissy when Weird Al lost his glasses and mustache.
Too me if the music is still quality, who gives a shit.
Let ’em stretch, chances are they’ll come back to what they’re know for.
For sure the internet has really given a license to people to destroy artists for doing things they don’t like.
ThatScoobyDoom: Yes indeed.
…so anywho, the title for Episode VII, did we like that? Lol
@Fitzman73: I think we decided “meh”.
I’ll like it more once the movie comes out.
ThatScoobyDoom: Well then, I think I can agree with that.
I don’t think it’s bad or good, but it works.
This has been a wild and wacky ride full of many twists I never would’ve saw coming.
@Fitzman73: Yeah this went a bunch of places I didn’t anticipate. But then that’s what good conversations do I guess.
ThatScoobyDoom: Damn straight, skippy.
Thanks for doing it again, man.
I swear, next time we’re gonna hit on the prequels as well as we did the OT…whether the Internet wants us to or not.
@Fitzman73: Challenge accepted
ThatScoobyDoom: Awww shit son, to quote JBL, it’s on like a pot of neck bone!
If you like this and Sir Fitzman you really need to check out his Podcast that he does with his sister Molly.
You can find it at http://JJ2End.com
Also, if you’re on the twitters, follow both of his accounts.
@Fitzman73 & @JJ2End.
If you like this let me know in the comments and I’ll be sure to do more.