The Camping Trip Begins And Playing Catch Up

One of the things I originally intended to do with this site was keep anybody who cared about the stuff I’ve done up to date on anything I do outside of the videos and such, so this here is a list of shtuff I’ve been up to this year.
As this is the 1 year anniversary of the day I started writing The Camping Trip, seems a good day to catch you all up.

The 1st thing on this list was originally set to be published on July 13th, to announce the availability of The Camping Trip, but due to phone trouble that wasn’t possible.
Anyway, here it is now.

​It’s all been leading up to this!
What started with boredom on May 27th 2013, has grown into this release.

December 26th 2015 – June 26 2016

6 months to the day, that’s how long it took from the moment I started writing my half of The Camping Trip to the moment that @Fitzman73 finished editing and doing the effects.

Now, as of July 13th, it’s out in the the world for just $5, find it here.
That $5 gets you the hour and a half audio drama feature and the near 2 hour bonus episode of @NerdBlitzPod.
And if you dig it, we also have posters available for only $5 as well, you can get them right here.

Then in October I got together with the good sir @FlyinKDW and recorded episode 6 of his podcast The Cult Of Dave.
We talked a bit about The Camping Trip, The Lion King, Aliens, and I even Special Edition of Doom’s Joke Corner!

Then this month (December) I hung out with@SquishyNosInc for episode 32 of his pod Always Bet On Geek.
He and I talked about wrestling, titties, wrestling titties, a bit of Scooby-Doo, and a bunch of other shit.

To hear my episodes of both of these shows you can check out this SoundCloud playlist I made, or go to ITunes or Stitcher.

In November, on the 7th, the good sir Fitz and I released our 2nd Bandcamp project, The Nerd Blitz Pilot Trio.
It’s Pilots for 3 shows that we hope to be able to launch soon (the 1st of which has launched already, but more on that in just a little while).
1st up is The Nerd Blitz Book Club, where we read the short story Star Wars: Kindred Spirits by Christie Golden (which is a prequel to our 1st Book Club book).
The 2nd show is The Nerd Blitz Comic-Con…Versations, where we read the Marvel Comic Star Wars: C-3PO: The Phantom Limb.
The 3rd and final Pilot is The Nerd Blitz Commentaries, where we watched The Star Wars Holiday Special.
Also included is a short little intro.
That is over 3 and a half hours of content available right here for just $4.

The final bit of business to tell you about, as mentioned above, is the launch of our 2nd bi-weekly podcast (which makes us weekly content providers, yippee).
We officially launched The Nerd Blitz Book Club on December 3rd with our 1st 2 episodes.
This 1st 19 episode series will cover Star Wars: Dark Disciple by Christie Golden.
You can find the Episodes on NerdBlitz.com, ITunes, Stitcher, or all in 1 SoundCloud playlist right here.

Share this post on Twitter with the hashtags #TSDJAProductions, #TheCampingTrip, #NerdBlitz, & #NerdBlitzBookClub

If you dug this and would like to show your support for TS-D/JA Productions, check out the Bandcamp page mentioned above at http://TSDJAProductions.Bandcamp.com or check out some Nerd Blitz merch at https://www.redbubble.com/people/nerdblitzpod/shop

And finally, the world can be such a horrible & shitty place sometimes.
Do whatever you can to combat that in anyway possible.
We need it now more than ever.

Thanks for reading.
I hope you come back soon.

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Typecast #16: Oops, We Did It Again!

Hey Gang, welcome back!
We’ve got another special installment of the Typecast for you here.
Remember that time Fitz and I did a Typecast (it was #9) and turned it into a podcast (which you can listen to here or read here)?
Well, as the title above suggests, we done gone and did it again!

This time around @Fitzman73 and I read issue 17 of the old Marvel Star Wars comic, and had a great conversation that you can listen to by going to this link:

http://justjumptotheend.libsyn.com/bonus-episode-2-oops-we-did-it-again

This conversation appears just as it was had, spelling and grammatical cock ups intact, to maintain the honesty of the whole thing.

The good sir Fitz’s name will appear in red and link to his podcast that he does with his sister, @Tacky1Z, Just Jump To The End, available at http://JJ2End.com.

Big thanks to Fitz for doing this again and putting in the hours to record and edit.
All that said, take it away me…

image

ThatScoobyDoom: For those that have been paying attention to our read throughs of these old Marvel Star Wars comics, we’re skipping ahead a bit this time around to issue 17 which is a stand alone prequel to Episode IV.

Before we get balls deep into it, you’ve said before that finding issues back then was hit and miss, is this one of the issues you were able to pick up back in the day?

@Fitzman73: Ya know I honestly don’t remember.

I don’t think so, this issue didn’t ring any bells the first time I read it in the omnibus, but it’s possible.
I’ll check in a minute.

This is a really odd issue, and you’re right it really is a “prequel”, and it’s really crazy how similar some of it is to what we would see in Episode I, or even in the EU novel Kenobi that came out a few years ago.

ThatScoobyDoom: Interesting.

Without getting too far ahead of ourselves, it was definitely memorable for me, but I’ll get into that later when we get to the story.

I still haven’t read Kenobi, but yes.
This issue feels like it has been REALLY influential to alot of stuff in the years since!

Let’s get into it starting with the cover, what do you think of it?

@Fitzman73: I liked the cover actually.
It felt like a movie poster.
It incorporates elements from the story that were more or less depicted accurately, unlike some of the bait and switch covers we saw earlier in the series.

It’s not terribly busy either, and the colors are all sane choices, again, not like the whacked out bright gaudy colors we’ve seen before.

There’s no interior credit for the cover artist, but you can see the person’s signature in the bottom left corner, and unless I’m very much mistaken, this cover was done by legendary X-men artist Dave Cockrum, who had a long run with Chris Claremont on that book in the 70s.

Which….brings me to my first revelation with this issue and that is the plot of this story is actually credited to who?
Chris Claremont.
Small world the 70s were.

ThatScoobyDoom: Agreed.

It truly gives the feel with no weird crap like those 1st 10.

I will admit though that the cover scared me, seeing SPECIAL ISSUE and knowing it’s a stand alone story made me think this was gonna be nothing but BS filler worth less than the paper the original was printed on.
Was shockingly wrong in that assumption.

Yeah, I’d say given Claremont’s involvement, that’s a safe bet.
I’ve never read his X-Men run but I know it’s beloved.
If this is any indication of his work on that, that must really rock, man.

But stay on target, lets talk a bit about the art before we get into the story.
Any panels really pop out for you?

@Fitzman73: Well you know I’m pretty nitpicky, and while I’m a total mark for Herb Trimpe’s artwork, what stood out the most for me, unfortunately, is how much “Aunt Beru” did NOT resemble Aunt Beru.

Did it bug you as much as it did me?
Some of the other designs were a but funky but she was like who in the fuck is this supposed to be?
I thought it was her hot sister or something.
Or the maid.

image

ThatScoobyDoom: I don’t know if it bothered me as much as it did you, but it was jarring for damn sure.

She almost looks like Margot Kidder as Lois.
Certainly nothing like the kindly old Aunt May type that the movie showed.
The only other thing that stuck out to me as strange was Uncle Owen, he looks more like Clegg Lars than Owen.
Nothing else stands out as bad or out of place…though those “skyhoppers” are something that I’d consider a funky design.
What are the other things what felt funky to you?

Overall, I’m pretty happy with the art for the first time in the 11 issues we’ve gone through.
I think the Banthas, which we know from previous issues have been hard for artists to nail, look impeccable, Biggs looks like Biggs, the Sandpeople look like bloody Sandpeople!

@Fitzman73: Well you can thank Herb Trimpe for the art.

I’m a big fan of his work on the ’82 G.I. Joe series.
This issue is pretty distinctly his style.
They look like they could’ve come straight from the pages of a Joe comic (for example page 304 second panel on the bottom, that’s a generic Joe if I ever saw one).
Side note, he also drew the first appearance oimage

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It’s no surprise that this issue was good, or at least leaps and bounds better than the ones we’ve already talked about.
The creative team on this on single issue is insane.

Roll call:

Dave Cockrum, iconic X-Men artist does the cover.

Herbe Trimpe on pencils.

Al Milgrom does the inking.

Plot by motherf’ing Chris Claremont?

And to top it all off it’s actually written by Archie Goodwin whose resume is a MILE fucking long.
Name a comic in the 70s and he either wrote on it or edited it.
Guaranteed.
He was the first writer on the original Iron Man solo series.
He created the character of Luke Cage.
Co-created the first Spider-Woman.
And was editor in chief of Marvel for a spell.

If this issue would’ve sucked, I think I would’ve had to burn my comic book nerd card.

And actually I take it back.
I flipped through this again real quick and Beru was really the only funky design.
Except for Luke’s daydream space battle.
Those ships are pretty non-Star Warsy.
Actually the one at the top of page 302 looks almost EXACTLY like the fighters that would show up a few years later in the Buck Rogers TV series.
Also, in that panel the pilot in the foreground (Luke?) is a dead ringer for Ace the Skystriker pilot in the old G.I. Joe books.
Almost the same exact pressure suit in my opinion.

The Skyhoppers are pretty accurate though.
They’re definitely odd, but that’s pretty close to what they’re supposed to look like.
These have kind of a protruding nose/cockpit though and I think in “canon” they have flat fronts.

ThatScoobyDoom: Ladies and Gentlemen, school is in session and you professor for this week was just Fitz, dropping nerd knowledge all up in our faces!

I noticed your generic Joe for sure. Haha

He drew Wolvie?
That’s why the noses look so familiar!
There were a few spots like page 310 where the noses just stuck out something I should recognize, but I couldn’t place it.

Yeah, it’s for sure a stellar fuckin’ line up.
And if folks don’t know who ARCHIE GODDAMN GOODWIN is…they need to go edumacate themselves on what comicbooks are.

It woulda been a massive screwing of many pooches for this to suck.
Like, something seriously cosmically fuckin’ wrong.

I liked that daydream for a specific reason.
Luke is stuck on this dusty dirt ball with no connection to anything, sure he wants to go off and join the Academy, but he probably hasn’t seen anything more than distant flashes in the sky.
So I like that the art doesn’t look specifically Star Warsy, the random sci-fi look fits perfectly.

Those skyhoppers are canon?
They almost look like scaled down versions of shuttle Tydirium.

@Fitzman73: Yeah they’re canon.

There’s one in A New Hope.
You know when Luke is fixing up the droids and the scene starts with him on the couch playing with a model spaceship thingy?
That’s a skyhopper.

You get to fly one in a mission in the old N64 Rogue Squandron game too.
I think that was the first actual rendering of it outside of that little model in the original movie.
They do kinda look like a tiny one man shuttle tyderium but I’m pretty sure their noses are cut off and the fronts are flat like a bus.
Not very aerodynamic.

Speaking of that Rogue Squadron game, the mission in that game is one of the things I thought of when reading this issue.
It’s also a Beggars Canyon run in a skyhopper, and I always thought that was the first time you see Beggars Canyon, but no, it happens in this very issue from like 15-20 years before.
It’s close enough in resemblance that I wouldn’t be surprised if the game designers used this issue as inspiration

Oh and nope I was wrong.
Just looked up images of a skyhopper and their fronts are almost exactly as depicted in the comic, not flat at all.
Some of the angles on the images though produce kind of an optical illusion that makes it look flat at first.
But in profile they’re definitely not flat.
Wings fold up too just like shuttle T.

ThatScoobyDoom: I don’t think I ever noticed that, I guess a rewatch is in order to try to spot it.

Speaking of Begger’s Canyon, lets just get into the story cause I can’t think of anything to say about the art besides it’s DAMN good!

Our story starts with Luke in the Cockpit of the Millenium Falcon where he starts reminiscing about his days back on Tatooine.
Given our harshness in previous issues for similar set-up, did this smack you as a bit hamfisted?

@Fitzman73: Yeah a bit.

They seem to use this “I’m alone flying through space and bored and shit let me have a flashback” device a lot.
This is at least the 3rd time they’ve used it in 17 issues (maybe more since we skipped ahead a few issues).

The other times it was usually to give readers a “last time, on Star Wars” type recap.
Which by today’s standards feels SUUUUUPER lame and hamfisted, almost insulting to the reader.
But back in the day, before direct market comic shops let alone the internet, it was easy to miss a bunch of issues and there was really no way to find out what happened unless they did a recap like those.

This one was different though.
Right from the first panel the writing alone is so much more mature and well done that I knew it wasn’t going to be a cheezy flashback.

ThatScoobyDoom: I totally agree, but I felt given how harsh we were before it seemed only fair to point out they do the same here.

It wasn’t only a “last time on Star Wars”, mind you.
At least once it was a “lets check in with these characters for a page so you don’t forget they exist”.
It’s handled totally different here, it’s him reminiscing and appreciating where he came from and how much things have changed in the weeks since he left.

So, as we head back to Tattooine, we get our 1st glimpse that this isn’t gonna be like the first 10 issues.
We see Luke actually bullseye image

a womp

rat fr

om his

T-16.

More than even the movie issues, to me it feels like for the first time somebody actually paid attention to the fuckin’ movie!
What do you think of that?
Do you agree?

@Fitzman73: Absolutely agree.
The fact that you’re actually seeing things that were alluded to in the film was really cool.

And you’re right it’s like somebody finally realized hey ya know, we could in fact connect these comics to the movies, we don’t always have to invent our own weird shit.

I thought the womp rats were a great touch.
I also liked that they even included Camie and Fixer, who were ultimately cut from the movie, but those scenes were in the comic adaptation (see prior Typecasts) so it was cool to bring them back and reinforce what Luke’s circle of friends looked like.
They didn’t just create all new random people.

I also liked how they spent time expanding a little on what the fuck they actually DO on that farm.
Not a lot of detail really, but it helped paint the picture that this is serious business.
Owen isn’t just being a dick, it’s really critical that Luke stay on top of his responsibilities.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, it just works.

I’m just gonna flat out say it, I love this issue because it has everything, man.
With 1 small exception that I’ll mention in just a second, this thing still plays well today!

That 1 exception though is when Luke gets back to the farm he asks to go the the Beggers Canyon send off for Biggs, Owen is about ready to shut that shit down when Beru steps in and says Biggs is Luke’s best friend.
Then she tells Owen that he let a brother leave without saying good-bye, obviously talking about Anakin.
That totally gets a pass since this is pre-Empire and pre-Prequel so we know Anakin and Owen were never close, but that was interesting.
I like that when Owen left Beru doesn’t elaborate on it either.

I dug the Fixer mention too, it’s the first time that they actually make an attempt at a real continuity.
Not just the weird random sci-fi shit they create on their own.

Does it make Owen seem like even slightly less of a dick though?
He seems like a bit of an asshole ta me, in the movie I can understand him not wanting Luke to chase after that damn wizard, but here Luke just wants to have a little fun and say bye to an old friend.
Owen is still like “fuck that, work boy”.

@Fitzman73: You saying that he’s like “fuck your fun times, get to work boy!” makes me think maybe he’s really not that much of a dick after all.

Obi-wan turns over this tiny little baby to Owen and Beru and is like hey keep an eye on this for me and make sure it doesn’t get broken.
They have to know who his father is, and even if they don’t know he turned dark (which I always felt like Obi-Wan must’ve told them at some point) at the very least they know he was a reckless Jedi and got himself killed.

So now Luke grows up and he’s hanging out with these people who are all going off to join the military and doing dangerous shit out in the desert and all that.
I think more than anything, all of his dickish behavior is Owen trying to make sure Luke gets as little time to be with those people as possible so that he doesn’t even get the bug to leave the planet much less join the military and get himself killed.
They probably don’t have detailed instructions from Obi-Wan, or daily interaction with him, but I’m sure the prime directive was “keep this boy safe and as anonymous as possible”.

Even when he says oh by the way this new droid belongs to Kenobi they’re immediately like oh that dude’s crazy stay away from him.
You know they know him and they know he’s not dangerous but it’s all about squashing anything Luke ever brings up so that he learns not to question anything.
Owen is going to keep him trapped on that farm, in his mind, forever.

So, is he really a dick?
Or is he just playing a role?
I tend to think it’s a little of both.
Judging by old man Lars in Ep2 and the harsh life he’s lived, Owen is bound to be grizzled and gruff, but at the same time I think most of his dickishness is really just him attempting to smother Luke for as long as possible.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’d guess that Owen and Beru probably don’t know that Anakin is Vader, but that Obi-Wan did tell them that Anakin was amongst the most powerful people in the galaxy and that Vader and the Emperor might be looking to find powerful kids or maybe even trying to find Anakin’s kid.

So I agree that he probably said don’t let Luke know that he might be one of the most powerful people in the galaxy, but I really don’t see how being an asshole is necessary.
Gruffness for gruffness sake can and, as we saw with Luke, will sow seeds of dissent.
Luke was almost resentful of Owen holding him back until Owen died.

But now you have me wondering what that relationship between Kenobi and the Lars family was like and when Owen started, in your words, playing this role.
I mean, in the tail end of Dark Lord: Rise Of Darth Vader there is a scene of Obi-Wan following them and watching them and they seem like a happy family.
And I know that’s not canon, but I figure everything can be potential canon until they explictly make it non-canon with a new story, so at what point did they go from “happy family” to “Luke, get your head out of the damn stars and get to working you little shit!”?

@Fitzman73: They show basically the same thing in the “Kenobi” novel.

He would basically make the trip across the desert every few weeks and spy on them from a distance to make sure shit was going ok.
So official canon or not (I don’t think that book is “canon” either) I’d say it’s pretty logical to assume that was happening.

I mentioned earlier and we’ll get back to it eventually, but this issue has a lot of the same ideas in it that show up in Kenobi, so somewhere there’s got to be some ounce of “canon” there.

ThatScoobyDoom: Which is kind of comforting if you think about it.

No matter how many times they visit the theme, no matter which writer handles it, Obi-Wan remains the same.

Let me know about those elements as they pop up.
So Beru basically brow beats Owen into letting Luke head to Begger’s Canyon and Luke heads off to work on his Skyhopper.
While doing his tune up he slips into a day dream about swashbuckling across the galaxy and saving a girl.

I mentioned this earlier, but I like the random sci-fi feel of this, it’s almost definitely unintentional, but it really sells the fact that Luke has never broken atmo before, he has no clue what it’s really like out in timage

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What did you think of it?

@Fitzman73: Even though I knocked the ship designs a little before (although not really because I loved that Buck Rogers show), I liked this sequence. Although it’s funny when you think about it because it’s a daydream within (essentially) another daydream.

I liked it though, kinda gives you a look inside his mind.
Something similar to this is what I imagine is playing in his head during A New Hope as he’s watching the sunset.

And you’re right, the funky ship designs and flight suits really lend to the idea that this kid knows jack shit about what real fighters look like.

Did you catch how they called him “Commander” Skywalker?
It’s cool when you realize the writers put that in a few years before he would be called that in Empire.
A little unintentional foreshadowing perhaps.

ThatScoobyDoom: Chris Nolan stole Inception from this!!!

I didn’t think about that, but that’s a great point.
This very well could be what he was doing, just lost in thought, daydreaming of what is possible.
I like that!

It’s a great bit of unintended bonding of storytelling and art that plays well, even in this post Clone Wars world of Star Wars.
It works beautifully.

I read it but I didn’t really notice it.
That is pretty cool.
Seems to be alot of unintended forshadowing.

@Fitzman73: Definitely.

So what did you think about the Skyhopper race?
Again we get some creative synchronicity between this issue and something we’d see again decades later.
I thought showing Luke in this race, while not as elaborate or dramatic, was very much the same thing we see Anakin doing in Ep1’s pod race.
Maneuvering through a course that’s virtually impossible to survive with human reflexes.

But, this time it’s all humans in the race and by the end everyone has dropped out except for Luke…….and Biggs.
Which is cool to see them race each other, the two hottest pilots on Tatooine.
However, what does this say about Biggs?
Is he just a really good pilot or could he maybe have a touch of Force Sensitivity himself?
Obviously it wasn’t enough to save him during the Death Star Battle like it was for Luke, but since no one else but those two made through the entire canyon, makes me wonder.

ThatScoobyDoom: That was my very first thought as well, podracing runs in the family.

My second thought was “huh, so he actually made the trench run before Episode IV”.
Because think about it, the whole point of this Skyhopper race is to get to the largest Womp Rat Burrow which can only be approached through Begger’s Canyon.
Only way to hit that exhaust port was through the trench.

Unlike the last issues we read where Han made a trench run to destroy the giganto turd monster, this actually works well.
It’s an interesting little piece of action.

I don’t think it means Biggs is force sensitive, because if it does then you have to wonder if Han is.
Han has accomplished many more spectacular feats and I feel pretty safe in saying that he has zero connection to the force.
I think Biggs is just that damn good!

So thus far, it’s all been fun and games.
Biggs won the race, Jawas got pissy cause nobody wrecked, alls good in this hood…until suddenly a Militia Scout crashes his speeder and warns of impending doom from Tusken Raiders!!!

image

1 question for you.
1. What the fuck is the Militia?

@Fitzman73: Touche.

You make a good point there about Han not being force sensitive.
It makes more sense that Biggs wouldn’t be, that was all just wild speculation.

Ah ha!
Yes.
Now we get to the heart of the matter and the biggest thing that to me connects this story to the Kenobi novel.
In that book they have local militias, kinda.
They’re basically like volunteer firemen.
When one farm raises the alarm about a Tusken attack (which apparently happens A LOT) the other local farmers arm themselves and come a runnin’ to help drive them off.
It’s very Old West frontier days type shit.

Basically they kind of depict the sand people like Native Americans and the moisture farmers like settlers in the Old West encroaching on their lands.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’d think Obi-Wan would have sensed Biggs if he’d been force sensitive also.

It’s an interesting notion, but I think that’s barking up the wrong tree.

Reeeaaaallllllyyyyyy!
That’s interesting!
I’m still a dozen or so novels away, were the Militia men mentioned in the Episode IV novel or is this here the first mention of it?
I think that’s pretty fuckin’ cool if this is the first mention and then John Jackson Miller mentions it in Kenobi, shows the dude knows his history.
FUCK!
I wanna read that Kenobi book, man.

That’s a classic trope.
And based on the reaction here and the Episode II novel, yeah…I’d say that the Tuskens attack ALOT!!!

@Fitzman73: It’s been awhile since I’ve read the ep4 novelization, but I’m pretty sure they don’t mention any kind of militia.

I think this comic is the first time.
But since it shows up again so far in the future it makes me wonder if it was in some of GL’s story notes.
I can’t imagine JJM used this as inspiration necessarily, it’d be such an obscure pull, but it could be that he was looking at the same notes on Tatooine that Claremont may have been given.
Maybe.
Again, wild speculation.

One of the storylines in Kenobi is all from the point of view of a band of Tuskens.
So you get to see how both worlds function, the farmers and the Tuskens.
Feels very much like a Western.

What did you think of the Tusken using his gaffi stick as a projectile instead of just a club?

ThatScoobyDoom: Welp, I just asked John Jackson Miller on twitter.

https://twitter.com/TheScoobyDoom/status/645467173226434560
Hopefully by the end of this we have a definitive answer from the man himself.

Really?
What was that like?
I imagine their brains to be chaotic and disjointed.
Almost like a ADD Puppy on speed.

I didn’t know what to think of that honestly.
Those sticks have always kinda confused me based on the design.
They look like javelins to me, making it seem like the most logical way to utilize it would be as a projectile, but that curve at the end kinda shoots that down cause it sorta fucks the aerodynamics of it all to hell unless you’re at a close range like this.
Also, given the weirdo shapes on the ends it looks like it could be some sort of low energy weapon.
Like a blaster rifle meant to stun to prolong torture or something.
That curve makes me think it could be used like a propeller too, swing it over your head and bring it down to crack some poor sap in the side of the mush.

Context, the Tuskens attack Luke and crew at their little post-race party, after the militia dude warns them then passes out or dies (not sure they made it clear what happened to him).
One Tusken chucks his stick at Biggs and hits him in the shoulder. Turns out, filthy prick dipped the stick tip in Sand Bat Venom which appears to be highly toxic!
Whatcha make of that image

tur

n o

f e

ven

ts?

Turns out he came up with it himself, but he later found a mention of Militias in the Tattooine Galaxy Guide.

https://twitter.com/jjmfaraway/status/645471776672215040

@Fitzman73: I saw that.
Awesome.
Go straight to the source.
At least we don’t have to waste any more time speculating.

The sand people in that book were portrayed very much like indiginous people, a little more primal, very superstitious with strong traditions and their own cosmology and creation myths.
It was pretty interesting.
They were more normal and less monstrous than you’d think given what we’ve seen in the films.

I always looked at those sticks as improvised weapons.
I don’t think they all look exactly the same, other than they’re all blunt force club type weapons.
They look to me like they’re fashioned from salvaged junk.
Whatever bits of metal they found that looks sharp, heavy, or pointy.
Makeshift.

Of course it was dipped in poison!
Haven’t you ever seen a cowboys and Indians picture?
It’s always dipped in poison.

Seriously though, it was a nice way (even though a little cliche) to introduce a time lock into the story.
It wasn’t dramatic enough that they needed to get into town quick to sound the alarm about the raiders coming, now Luke has to fly the most impossible route through the canyon in order to save his best friend’s liimage

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ThatScoobyDoom: The wonderful world we live in, you can go straight to an author and ask all the questions you’d ever desire to know the answers too.
Alot of authors gladly answer too.

Yeah, that’s not what I’d expect at all, especially given what could have potentially happened to Anakin’s poor mother.
I’d think them to be unthinking, uncaring, unchecked beasts.

I should have, but the look of them is just so strange that it seems like it could be anything from a lead pipe to some sort of energy weapon.
It is a great design.

It seems like an unnecessary raising of the stakes, not nearly as bad as the last arc we read, but still.
The unflyable chasm should be enough of a challenge.
Do you mind the whole “nobody has ever done it before, but Luke has to at least try” thing?
I think that may be the only thing that sticks out as a little too hokey for me, ya know…given Luke JUST SAID something about how great Biggs was for making it through Begger’s Canyon when even he couldn’t.

@Fitzman73: I think that’s why the poisoning was necessary.

It gave Luke no choice but to do the impossible or die trying.
As a result he finds out that he’s capable of greater things than being a farmer, and that even when something seems impossible, there’s always a chance to succeed.
It really is the trench run, and seeing how he aced this you can see where all that bravado and confidence came from when they attacked the Death Star.
This story kinda shows you that it wasn’t all just him being young and naive.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’ll be honest, I’m only trying to poke a hole so we don’t come off as blinded fan boys just slobbering on the balls of this book just for cause it says Stary Wars all up on the covery part.

Is his family being in grave peril not enough of a reason to die trying though?
Does he need yet another reason to rush home?
Do we really need to risk his super best bud who’s just gonna eat it in a few years?

@Fitzman73: No we don’t need it.
But it did make it cool.

And also all this Biggs talk just made me realize something that I never really considered.
As if their relationship isn’t crazy enough, Luke’s FATHER killed his best friend.
Let that sink in for a second.
That’s a fact that gets totally lost in the “Oh my god he kissed his sister” conversation.

ThatScoobyDoom: Ya know, until I started talking with you for these Typecasts a year ago I never really paid much attention to Biggs.
To me, he was just a dude that Luke used to know years back on the dust bowl planet.
But talking to you, he’s kinda become a more important character, even though he gets dead in the trench run saving Luke’s bacon.
It’s pretty clear you always dug him though and it kinda rubs off.

But yeah, that is pretty fucked up that dear daddy Vader basically kills almost every one of the folks what Luke cares about from the old country, if ya will.
Mentor Old Ben, best friend Biggs, depending on what theory you want to believe he also killed or ordered the hit on Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen.
This Vader dude is kinda a dick.

I don’t think we said it, but Luke does the impossible and makes it through Begger’s Canyon only to come upon some of those attacking Tuskeimage

ns.
H

ow did th

at tickle

your fan

cy?

@Fitzman73: I’m not sure that I “dig him” so much as I obsess over the tiniest details of these movies, to an unhealthy degree.

Plus there was always kind of a mystique about him because almost all of scenes were cut and decades went by spent wondering what he was like on Tatooine, what was thier friendship like, etc.
That lack of information feeds the imagination.
Even now with the inclusion of some of that cut footage, you still don’t get much information.
So things like this comic are cool because it adds to the non-canon stuff that I’ve built up in my head about him over the years.

I thought the way Luke came up through Devil’s Ass Crack or whatever they called that exit from the canyon and shot passed a bunch of Tuskens was cool.
I liked how they used the surprised Tuskens to illustrate how incredible this was.
The way they point out that the Tuskens in all their history have never seen anyone come through that cut in the canyon wall was a nice touch.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’m not saying you wanna get your hair and nails did and take Biggs out for dinner and see where the evening takes you, but you seem to have a particular interest in him because of the total blackout in detail for him.

I mean, I was trying to find details on him being in some old novels and I don’t really see much, so of course it would cause your imagination to build a history based on their short interaction.

Aye, me too.
If you look close they seem to being just blind firing cause they’re so surprised.

It sells the whole thing and brings it home as Luke streaks through the sky with them firing u’p his afterburner causing a fiery crash image

landing at t

he Lars homestead

.

@Fitzman73: And then, just like we kinda talked about earlier, Luke even says to himself this felt like some kind of test.

Which then leads into a flash forward to the trench run before Han snaps him back to reality aboard the Falcon in the present.

ThatScoobyDoom: And that page that shows the stuff what happened in IV is just a stunner.
Better than image

the art in those issues.

Okay, I gotta ask, and you did sorta touch on this earlier when talking about Luke’s trench run bravado, but does this in anyway cheapen Episode IV for you?
Does it make Luke’s journey in that movie seem less impressive to you at all?
Cause I’m of 2 minds on it.

@Fitzman73: Not really.
It makes it more believable to me.
Especially when you add in the information you get from Episode I.
To me it connects him more to Anakin, which is something you don’t get much of just from the movies.
It shows he’s more than just a good pilot, there’s something special there.

When he says hey this Death Star trench is no big deal, this issue makes that seem more believable that he would actually feel that way.
But when the shit hits the fan you still get to see him realize that oh this is NOT just like Beggars Canyon, at all.
He almost immediately finds out that yeah maybe the trench run itself is the same, and hitting a 2 meter target, but doing it while trying to evade trained killers all around you is something else entirely.

ThatScoobyDoom: That is my dominating thought.

It actually makes alot of shit in A New Hope make way more sense.
As I said at the start, somebody, probably Claremont, paid attention to the movie and just figured “fuck it, lets make these references mean something” and it totally works.

This isn’t me just looking for a flaw so we don’t sound like Marvel/Star Wars zombies, I feel this is a legit point.
What makes Luke’s story in ANH so interesting is that he’s a good mechanic & he’s a good speeder pilot, but once you insert all of these impressive feats into his background it almost feels like “what’s the big deal? He’s basically done this before, this time he’s just getting shot at the whole time and not just at the last moment”.

Again, I agree that it doesn’t, but I think that’s something to consider for a moment.

@Fitzman73: I could see where someone might take it that way.

ThatScoobyDoom: Our last scene is, as you touched on before, Han coming into the cockpit of the Falcon to take over for Luke in a scene that is actually kinda sweet.

Han tells Luke that he knows Luke must want to get out of the pilot seat because hours at the controls can be pretty boring.
And Luke tells him maybe some day he’ll get tired, but that day’s not today.
How did that hit you?

Also, there’s one thing on this last page that we’ve both bitched about in the past, can you spot it?

@Fitzman73: I thought it was a cool little scene. It reminded me of something out of Firefly.

The boredom of piloting in deep space all alone.
I thought the “Don’t get space happy” line by Han was dismal.
I had my own flashback to the Roy Thomas arc we read before.
Ugh.

Not sure what the gripe was on the last page except the design of the Falcon looked a bit off.

image

ThatScoobyDoom: I didn’t make the Firefly connection, but that’s a very apt way to describe it.

You just hit the nail on the head.
I read “Space Happy” and it made me cringe SSOOOOOO hard!
It definetly didn’t ruin the issue, but I had hoped we’d moved past that shit.

Yeah, the Falcon has alot less detail than we’d expect.
I’ve flipped ahead quite a few times and we’ll see that again…alot.

@Fitzman73: Yeah that line was fucking awful.

It almost ruins the rest of the issue.
It’s like getting to the bottom of a delicious ice cream sunday and finding a dog turd.

The Falcon looks really flat and smooth like it has the same skin as an old WWII bomber.
At least that’s what these comics make me think of.
Carmine Infantino who takes over from Howard Chaykin after the series of issues we covered previously was really bad (good?) about that.
The Star Destroyers are the same.
They look perfectly trialngular and their surfaces are very smooth almost like glass.

It’s weird because I think the Infantino art is some of my favorite.
But his spaceships are never quite right.

ThatScoobyDoom: Lol, I didn’t think it was that damaging.

But at least you gave us all a…good…visual…image…

I wonder if that was him or his co-artists, because I looked and it’s pretty rare that he did the issues alone.
Bob Wiacek seems to be the most frequent co-artist, I can see somebody of Infantino’s stature wanting to do the character stuff and leaving the rest to somebody else.

I do dig what I’ve seen of Carmine’s art though.
It’s great shit.

@Fitzman73: It’s weird, Wiacek was usually an inker so I thought maybe that was the co-artist part, but looking him up at comicbookdb.com, it doesn’t look like they have him credited on this issue at all.

So then it makes me wonder if he did the layouts or something, or like you said maybe the ships and non character stuff.

Carmine Infantino just died recently, couple years ago, it was a bummer because I would’ve like to meet him.

ThatScoobyDoom: Keep in mind that this issue is Herb Trimpe and Allen Milgrom.

Next issue is where Infantino came back, with Gene Day for that issue, and the detail on that opening page is pretty good.
But lets save that for another day.

Yeah, even at 24, I’ve reached the age where alot of the folks I’d like to meet are starting to go.

Well, my good sir, we’ve reached the end of this story.
Is there anything else you’d like to say about this issue for the good folks reading/listening?

@Fitzman73: No, I’m spent.

This was a fun read with some interesting concepts and nice art.
I give it 7 out of 10 womp rats.

ThatScoobyDoom: I hate giving scores, but I might go even higher. This is without a doubt the best issue of the old run that I’ve read.

As we close, I want to say something really quick. By the time this goes up it will have been 1 year since I launched my site and this whole Typecast concept and you’ve been extremely instrumental in that. Counting this one, you’ve done 9 of these now covering a wide range of topics, 90% of which within the broad theme of Star Wars. I’ve had great guests, @SpiderScooby@TESDGroupie, @ScoobyAddict@JoinedToFollow, @ScoobySnaxCom, and @MemeEmSteveDave, but none more than you.
Not to mention the help you’ve given me on videos and shit in that time, and much more

So thanks for all of that.
I know for a fact my site wouldn’t have nearly as many visitors without you, my good sir.

@Fitzman73: Are the mics off?

Should I zip up my pants now?

ThatScoobyDoom: *garbled*
Die fink show!
*spits*<
pimage

Remember, you can listen to this as a podcast with this link here:

http://justjumptotheend.libsyn.com/bonus-episode-2-oops-we-did-it-again

Again, a huge thank you to Fitz for all he has done.
The dude has been a huge help.
Follow both of his twitter accounts.
His personal: http://twitter.com/Fitzman73
And his podcast: http://twitter.com/JJ2End
Also, be sure to go and listen to every single episode of the podcast he does with his sister at http://JJ2End.com

Share this post on twitter with the hashtag #Typecast.

And finally, and most importantly in light of recent world events, this world is full of truly EVIL people.
Do everything in your power to combat that evil, even if it’s something as simple as giving a stranger a smile.
Do it!
The world needs good now more than ever.

Thank you for reading, hope to see you back here soon.

Typecast 12: Fitz And The Funny Books

Hey everybody, remember that time @Fitzman73 and I read those Star Wars comics (which you can read here: https://tsdjaproductions.wordpress.com/2015/01/27/typecast-5-four-color-fitz/)?
Well guess what!
We done gone and did it again!
This go round we read issues 7-10 and had a little chat about ’em…and when I say a little bit I mean buckle the fuck up cause we’re long winded motherfuckers!

This conversation appears just as it was had, flaws, fuck-ups, and…something else that starts with F and means flawed.
Fitzman’s name is his twitter handle, appears in red, and links to his podcast Just Jump To The End that he does with his sister, @Tacky1z.

And so we begin…

ThatScoobyDoom: Before we get into these 4 issues, lets talk a bit about your history with ’em.
If I remember right, didn’t you say last time that the arc after this was when you started getting your monthlies?
If that’s right, when did you first read these?

@Fitzman73: Yeah, I think so.
I know I said that but I might actually be misremembering that.
I checked my stash and I only have a couple of these in single issue, it’s the next arc with the water planet and the red haired space pirate dude that I started collecting on the reg.
And by “reg”, I still mean whenever I was at a store and saw an issue.
These were still the days of shit shows up on the spinner when it shows up.
There wasn’t a new comic book day for me so even though I was actively looking for the next issue if it didn’t show up on the rack at Kroger that month or my mom didn’t have 35 cents (can you believe that cover price? Wow) I missed that issue.

I think actually the first time I read this arc, which I’m going to call the “Seven Samurai” arc (or the “Magnificent Seven arc” if you’re some kind of uncultured slob), was probably when I bought this omnibus a few years ago.
I’m sure I read a couple issues of it as a kid because I have distince memories of one of the most infamous characters in it (which we will no doubt cover at length later) but I don’t think I read the whole arc until recently.

ThatScoobyDoom: Hey man, I may have grown up 20 years after you but I know that fuckin’ struggle!
When I first started getting comics I was only getting the original Scooby comic that DC published.
I knew nothing of comic shops, the first 20-30 issues I was able to get were bought at QuikTrip when I could find them.
I learned fast that it dropped the first week of the month and I had to get it then or I missed that issue.
I know the struggle all to well.

If comics were still 35¢ I’d still be buying them!

Just to keep it Star Wars, lets call it the Bounty Hunters arc (The Clone Wars, Season 2 Disc 4 fuckos), and I am an uncultured slob thank you very much!

Really?
For some reason that is strange to me, I figured you’d have been all over this long before 2010 (when this Omnibus was published).

@Fitzman73: The Marvel version of Star Wars really lost its shine for me after the OT was complete.
As you’ll see if we ever make it that far things start unravelling after Jedi from what I recall.
Not that this series really ever captured Star Wars, it just lost me at some point and I kinda put it down and wasn’t all that interested in revisiting them until I got really nostalgic a few years ago.
Now of course I can read these and appreciate the janky 70s artwork and corny ass dialog (very similar to my appreciation of Batman 66) and just allow it to be fluff and not get all fanboy ragey about how “this ain’t Star Wars!”

Although, I actually started the first issue of this arc last night fresh off the heels of watching the Rebels season 1 finale, and that might’ve been a bad idea.
To go from Star Wars perfection in Rebels to, wow how do I say this nicely, terribly written 70s Star Wars fanfic, it’s rough.
The dialog so far is beyond the pale. Lol.

ThatScoobyDoom: See, you can say that now, or even 16 years ago, because you have a set of rules for Star Wars, but in January of 78?
Star Wars was just 1 movie, that’s it.
But now?
Star Wars is far more.
Sure, it lost you.
And sure, it’s not really great, but at the time I’m sure you guys were just nuttin’ in your britches just cause you saw more Luke, Han, and Leia.
By 84, there was a bit of defintion too, so these kinda lost their luster, but even then it was hard to nail down what was Star Wars.
I can’t comment on 66, I think I pissed folks off enough with Typecast #7. Lol

I didn’t read it yet, I wanted to talk about it just a little bit first, but I have no doubt this non-movie issues are gonna be rrrrrrough!
Rough!
Rrrough!

Don’t bring up Rebels, man!
I wanna stick to these comics and I don’t wanna get distracted by that sweet sweet goodness. Lol

image

So, as always, lets start with the cover, I see 3 things that are either strange or just fuckin’ horrible.
I’ll get to those, but what do you think of it?

@Fitzman73: Only 3?

Like I said I picked this up right after watching some of the best Star Wars possibly since the OT, so I found myself being really hard on this issue.

Right off the bat, to me Han Solo looks like Moe Howard.
And I can’t figure out why a wanted poster for Chewbacca needs to say “Chewbacca The Wookiee”.
His fucking picture is on it!
Does he need that speciest title?
I mean it doesn’t say “Han Solo The Caucasian Human”.
The alien Han is grappling with looks like Merman fucked the Demon Etrigan.
Such an un-Star Warsy design.

ThatScoobyDoom: I didn’t watch Rebels and I think I’m gonna shred this issue too.

Yeah, 3…and you nailed one of them.
That Koala Fish Mutant Bird Creature guy that Chewie has by the collor couldn’t be more un-Star Wars.
I was thinking of “Gone Gone the form of man” as well and that little barnacle faced fucker from JJ’s first Trek movie.

I just noticed Han looking like a whoop whoop whoopin’ idiot.
I noticed the Chewie thing on the poster too, but let that slide cause that’s what everybody calls him.

My other 2 things were:
1. Han’s word balloon.
“Grab a laser•gun”
A laser•gun…a fuckin’ laser•gun???
When in that movie did they call a goddamn blaster a “laser•gun”?

2. Chewie himself looks like a furry turd supermodel vampire.

Woofah, are we in for a not fun time or what?

@Fitzman73: Laser-gun is one of the LEAST ridiculous things that come out of his mouth.
Buckle up because this is going to get ugly….

ThatScoobyDoom: When you say ugly I’m not sure what you’re talking about…art?
Story?
Dialogue?
All 3?

Lets start with the art, it appears that even after 6 issues Howard Chaykin still has no clue what the fuck Chewie is supposed to look like!
Look at panel 3 on page 119, it looks like Chewie is trying to tranny trick Han or something!
And from there it, somehow, though as inconceivable as it may seem, it just gets worse for poor Chewie.

@Fitzman73: It’s so funny that you say tranny trick because I have that in my notes for later in the issue!

Yeah he can’t draw Chewie and apparently doesn’t have a grip on the Falcon either.
At this point there should be more than enough reference material for both.

Actually I have more of a problem with the dialog.
The way they use contemporary real world slang is fucking maddening.

It started out pretty good though, I liked the fact that they begin right where the movie left off with Han leaving Yavin to pay Jabba and the Rebels in serious need of scouting for a new base.
That’s something you don’t think about after episode 4.
They would’ve had to get the hell off Yavin before the rest of the Empire showed up.
So it’s cool that one of the subplots is going to be them looking for a new place to hide.

Then they ruin it immediately by having Han literally use the phrase “space spurs”.
Space spurs?
What the fuck?
If you notice, Han talks like John Wayne or somebody during this whole issue.
Fail.

ThatScoobyDoom: Hahaha, I can see why you would!
I didn’t even make notes on this issue cause I was just so stunned by how bad it was.

Motherfuck reference material, all he needs is 1 fucking photo of Chewie, doesn’t even need to have Mayhew in the goddamn costume, he has no defense.
The Falcon is a bit harder to capture, that’s hard to capture all of that detail…that said, you are correct.

It did start of great, I didn’t read that Dark Horse Star Wars book that that Wood dude did or the new Marvel Star Wars book, but it seems like this might well be the closest we’ve actually gotten to the end of A New Hope.
It was really cool to see…but it didn’t last long!
That red bearded douche in the black Daisy Duke’s kind of killed the high of that for me.

This goes too two of your points, the dialogue and the “space spurs”.
I swear to Bob that they think that this stupid bullshit sounds cool, AND ADDING SPACE TO A FUCKING WORD DOESN’T MAKE IT COOL AND STAR WARSY GODDAMN IT!!!
I swear to god I was expecting him to call somebody pilgrim!

@Fitzman73: And it’s especially egregious because Roy Thomas is not a bad writer in general.
He’s done a lot of shit by but wow he does NOT get Star Wars at all.

Did you catch where they have Han say he’s going back to Dantooine to pay Jabba?
I might let that mistake slide except for in the very next panel they refer to it as Tatooine?
What the fuck man.
This was the 70s baby, ain’t nobody got time for quality control.

Ah yes.
Enter the Space Pirates.
So basically for anyone who hasn’t read this issue, the Falcon gets intercepted by a giant Star Destroyer-like cruiser full of, yep, pirates, led by a burly red haired guy in hot pants named Crimson Jack.
Who proceed to board the ship and steal all of Han’s reward money.
Which is a handy way to explain (if this were canon) why he never got that money to Jabba.

image

And these aren’t cool space pirates like Hondo and his gang of Weequays on the Clone Wars.
These are literally pirates in space.
Pirate head scarves, striped shirts, for Christ’s sake one of them has an actual cutlass.
The only thing missing is a parrot.

But then there’s Jollie, the lady pirate.
Who by the way reminds me an awful lot of the female member of the Oktober Guard in the old Marvel G.I. Joe comic.
She’s such an angry young lady.
Spoilers, this is not the last time we’ll see Crimson Jack and his crew.

ThatScoobyDoom: Completely true.

I saw that and was going to mention it, there is shit in these that’s just so easily fixable it’s clear that whoever the fuck made this deal for Marvel was just laughing their ass off all the way to the bank.
It just smacks of laziness and little effort.

Yeah sorry, I forgot to do a breakdown, much like my lack of notes, I’m just fuckin’ gobsmacked by how legitimately shitty this is.
I swear dude, I was excited to read through these issues before but after just this one issue I gotta say…I’ve got a bad feeling about this…I get the feeling these next 60 issues and 2 annuals are going to be painful.

I love how they feel the goddamn need to say “there is even the white, stoic armor of a fallen stormtrooper, strangely out of place.” mixed in with this shithead and his merry band of morons.
And look at the panel after the stormtrooper, Han looks like a chick from the 60’s with that stupid ass hair style.

That chick is blood thirsty, she’s in like 6 panels and she wants to or threatens to kill Han and Chewie 3 times.
That’s nuts!
I’ve never been a big G.I. Joe fan but I can see why you’d say that.

Have you noticed all of the panels that are incredibly offensive to asians?
That first shot with Jolli has Crimson Jack looking like Charlie from Mr. Magoo.
After that panel I heard that voice because of it.
That last panel is bad for the same reason.

@Fitzman73: Yeah I didn’t notice the Mr Magoo thing, but the guys in the last panel are pretty blatant and borderline offensive.
It’s even weirder because I’m pretty sure they’re not even in the next issue.

The “bantha” looks terrible.
They must think bantha is just a generic term for any pack animal because the one in this issue looks like a hippo with curly horns.

And Han Solo actually says “Sunday School”.
Another example of them having no idea how to write within the context of this universe.
It’s really jarring and makes it hard to stay in the story, what little there is.

What did you think of the “High Galactic” language they invented for this issue?

ThatScoobyDoom: I’ve only flipped through it, but I don’t think they are either.
Weird indeed.

That Bantha looks like that a less hairy Nerf without the top horns or, based on the feet, a furry Reek without the nose horn, or maybe a combo of both.

I found Han’s knowledge of any religion to be kind of weird given his reaction to the “religion” of the Force.
The way he was all “fuck that force nonsense” to Luke and Obi-Wan but here he’s all respectful is really two-faced.
And I’m honestly surprised he didn’t call it space sunday school.

It sure as shit ain’t no Mando, that’s for sure.
But I would be interested in learning more of it, though given how this issue is going I doubt they put much or any effort into making an actual language.

Again, for those not reading along, Han and Chewie have decided to land on another shithole planet to lay low for a while and make some credits when they run into a group of locals trying to beat some smarts into a Holy man for trying to taint (teehee) their local graveyard with a cyborg body.
What do you think of all that, basically turning Han and Chewie into local problem solvers?

image

@Fitzman73: I didn’t have a problem with that really.
Aside from being all reverent of this guy because he’s wearing priestly robes, and talking about attending space Sunday school, which is WAY out of character, I felt like the whole “oh you’re going to pay me? Sure I’ll haul this guy to the spacer graveyard and kill anyone that gets in my way, no problem” to be perfectly in line with his mercenary ways.

Plus, they have to have them doing something, I guess this is as good as anything.
As you’ll see as the series goes on they very rarely (if memory serves) interact with the Empire.
At least not for a long time.
Their antagonists a mainly cheezy villains of the week made up for the comics.
I’m sure that had a lot to do with restrictions placed on them by Lucasfilm.

I did like the introduction of cyborgs to the SW universe in this issue though.
This is the first time we see something that ends up being a big part of the Star Wars saga in later films.
I also thought it was funny they call them “Borgs”, all I could think of was Star Trek.

Oh and before I forget, page 128 top panel, I think Dr. Zoidberg is in the crowd shot.

ThatScoobyDoom: But before payment is even discussed?
He was ready to jump in and help, didn’t Han say he only looks out for himself or do you think he made an exception for the holy man (insert Eddie Murphy joke here)?

True, but I think the story could have been structured in a way that made it seem like there was money to be made before Han just jumps to his defense.
I’m sure Lucasfilm told them to steer clear of using the empire too much but to go nuts since it’s not going to be official anyway.

I kept thinking of Patrick Stewart myself.

As long ago as this is?
It’s more likely to be Uncle Harold Zoid…yeah!!!
I have a long futurama dick too, son!
Lol, good eye.

@Fitzman73: You have a point, the jumping in to defend someone just to be a swell guy isn’t really his nature at this point, but he did just save Luke’s bacon and by extension the entire rebellion so it might be (and I in NO WAY think Roy Thomas gave it this much thought or any for that matter) the start of the new Han, the Han who would stay with the rebels at the expense of a price on his head or the Han who would volunteer to blow up a shield generator.
Maybe this is him easing into his new role of “hero”.

Or maybe it’s just lazy paint by numbers writing?
Sorry, it’s hard to not be an apologist.

ThatScoobyDoom: Well, one could argue that he saved Luke to make sure he earned his reward.
That cracker barrel cheese ain’t cheap after all, but that is a good point.
Could be the first step of his transformation.

So after Han, Chewie, and the Space Bible Thumper bury the collective Han and Chewie head to the local watering hole for cause they want too.
Han buys a round for the house, spots a blue lady who quickly disappears.
What do you make of that seeming waste of panels?

@Fitzman73: First off what the hell is up with lady’s fashion in this place?
Wow.
It’s like the 60s had diarrhea all over them.

The only explanation I have for this pointless epilogue is that it brings in those weird Asian peasant looking dudes that offer Han and Chewie a job with possibly the worst sales pitch ever.

That chick he was about to score with was where I thought he was going to get tranny tricked.
That subtext is all OVER their conversation.
And then she just disappeared when the farmers show up?
Huh?
Part of me thinks the implication was that she magically turned into those 3 guys, like they were disguised or something.

ThatScoobyDoom: At least The Jetsons had an excuse, right?

I knew that’s where the tranny trick was going.
I never thought of that, but it’s not like they give you a clue either.
There’s nothing to hint at that, not the same colored clothes, hair styles, even a little logo to tip ya off.
I like that theory though cause it gives it some point!
A real non-sequitur.
My biggest question would be, didn’t he have his hand around her waist?
Did he not feel her disappear?

image

It’s all just strange.
Without reading the other 3 issues of this arc, it feels like they may have planned a 5 or 6 issue arc then the editor came in and told them it could only run for 4.
There’s just so much that feels like it was supposed to breath but they were forced to expedite it for some reason.

@Fitzman73: You pretty much nailed it.
I think this was intended to just get Han and Chewie off Yavin and split the heroes up so that the next few issues could happen.
Once we get into those you’ll definitely look back on this one and be even more puzzled as to what the point was because from what I remember it has absolutely no bearing on what happens next.

ThatScoobyDoom: Well, what’s the verdict on this issue?
I think it would be far better if it was a bit smoother and wasn’t so many events jammed into so little space.
Too much shit going on, the pace is too breakneck.

@Fitzman73: They say you can’t polish a turd.
However.
I think you might if it’s been left in the sun for 30 years and allowed to dry out and harden.

That’s what this issue is.
A 30 year old sun baked pile of dog shit.

But it’s not without its charm.
It’s a classic example of really bad 70s comic book garbage of which there was plenty.
It’s not at all Star Wars as we know it, but it’s a fascinating little snapshot of what people (especially middle age white dudes) *thought* Star Wars was supposed to be the time.
It’s the first “original” comic story in the SW universe, and it’s obvious from page 2 that George Lucas was the only one on the planet at the time that knew how to tell a Star Wars story.

ThatScoobyDoom: I not even sure what to say about that dried dog turd comment…my dog’s shit disintegrates so at least this has staying power of a sort. Lol

That’s the thing, with a little understanding of the verse, this could be a great issue.
It has all of the elements to be a great story…but it squanders them on dumb pointless bullshit that is more confusing than anything.

Issue 8 cover, thoughts?

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@Fitzman73: Issue 8’s cover.
You know, despite Chewbacca’s typically fucked up appearance and Han looking more like Reed Richards than Harrison Ford, it’s not that bad.

It’s got a classic Marvel look to it with all the main players from the issue in kind of a battle pose.
Switch out the characters and this could be an Avengers cover.
And hey, holy shit, the cover is an actual representation of what’s going to happen in the issue.

ThatScoobyDoom: Apologies if I’ve made this joke already, but is talking about how goofy Chewbacca looks like putting your hand on a midgets head, watching him swing wildly, and kicking him in the nuts?
It feels like picking on the slow kid at this point, at least in the cases that Chaykin does the art, which I’m just guessing he did this cover.

Yeah, and that makes me like it more.
Ooo, does it finally advertise this actual issue?
I may cream my fuckin’ wheat!

@Fitzman73: It’s weird too because he looks all fucked up on the cover, but in the issue itself he looks awesome.
He actually, FINALLY, looks like Chewbacca to me.
At least in the panels that I read last night.

I think the addition of an “embellisher” to the team on this issue really makes a difference in the art quality.
I think normally that’s just another term for “inker” but there’s such a drastic shift in style of the drawings I can’t imagine he didn’t rework some of Chaykin’s rough art before inking it.
It just does not look in any way like Howard Chaykin drew these pages alone.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’m trying to think of what he looks like on this cover but it’s hard, those blue and black eyes are fucked.
It looks like Chewie’s cousin…that wears the same bandolero or whatever the hell it’s called.

So, kinda like when the second artist or whatever was brought into the 1st 6 issues?

@Fitzman73: Yeah.
Like it doesn’t look anything like the previous issue.
It’s bizarre.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, I just read it.
Not only was the art better, the story is 1000X better too.
And those old offensive Asian dudes are now carbon copies of Tatooine farmers.

@Fitzman73: I was going to bring that up immediately.
The lack of continuity between the last issue and this one is incredible.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like it.

Not only is the blue girl gone and never to be seen again, the 3 Asian dudes are now 1 single Luke Skywalker clone.

You know why the story is 1000x bettrr in this issue?
Becasue they recycled the same story that’s been told a thousand times before and just plugged in Han Solo and a bunch of random weirdos.

That’s my main problem with this arc, and it’s totally my own bias, but I’m immediately turned off any time I read or watch something that is just a repackaging of Seven Samurai.
They did the same thing in an episode of Clone Wars, but a lot subtler.
I actually really enjoyed that episode because it wasn’t such a heavy handed, literal retelling of the same story.
But this?
This is a classic case of “I’m already out of ideas”.

ThatScoobyDoom: But they did mention the blue girl.
The craggy faced dude that attacked Han right after the Asian, turned Luke, dudes (who after the first 3 pages, the other 2 disappear) turned up on page one says that Blue is his girl.
After that (at least for issue 2) is never mentioned.

It is a classic story, but if it’s done decently it can work.
I’ve never read or watched or whatever any interpretation of the original story, just the retellings with characters it like.
Mostly cause I’m the uncultured slob you mentioned earlier.

As you’ll recall, I mentioned that Clone Wars ep earlier.
That was a great episode for a multitude of reasons, one of which because it was the return of Hondo.

What do you think of this Napoleonic jackass villian…whose name mesa can’t remember at the moment?

@Fitzman73: When I saw the picture of that dude, The Arrogant One, I was like holy shit.
But the second thought I has was, have you ever read the Brian Daley Han Solo trilogy from the 70s?
There’s a recurring villain that’s constantly trying to have a duel with Han, he’s a “gunslinger” named Gallandro.
This guy is what imagine Gallandro looked like.
But then eventually he speaks and it’s like oh he’s just a straight Eli Wallach/Magnificent Seven ripoff.

I highly encourage everyone to check out some Kurosawa films.
Especially for Star Wars fans, The Hidden Fortress.

Anyway, back to this issue.
One somewhat inspired piece of creativity is they give us our first look at speeder bikes/swoops in the Star Wars universe here.
(Note: I’m not counting the Ep4 Special Edition that includes a swoop nearly crashing into a Ronto in Mos Eisley, that was added 20 years after this comic book was published)

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I enjoyed the bar fight.
I liked how Han kept waiting for his muscle (Chewie) to save him except Chewie was off getting his jimmy waxed by the two bar flies from the last issue.
He does eventually show up and beats the shit out of that green wart faced dude.

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ThatScoobyDoom: You’ve told me about those books before, I have them but I haven’t read them yet because I’m reading in order (as best as I can given lack of funds to fill in a few PT/OR gaps).
I’m on Medstar II right now so those are about 10 books away.
I’ll get to them in 2016 or 2017.

This dude just looks too goofy and flashy/colorful for this era of Star Wars.
Given his look, I think he’d fit in the PT as a Senator.

I’ve just never heard anything about that type of stuff that peaked my interest, everybody just says it’s good.

I hadn’t noticed that, interesting.
Good eye!

That whole page with Chewie finally showing up is great!
Panel 5 is a perfect image of him, the best we’ve seen up to this point!
The very next panel made me legit lol, Chewie throwing herpies face out the window.
Genius!

Then we get the poor farmer saying he needs protection from Solo, because our “big bad” Serji-X Arrogantus aka The Arrogant One.
Which leads us too our hero auditions, or Galactic Idol.
What did you think of the hero try-outs?

@Fitzman73: You mean besides the obvious question of why the hell does Han do the interviews shirtless?
Or the fact that everyone that applies gets hired?
Even the hackiest of hack characters Don-Wan Kihotay the delusional “Jedi”?
It’s not bad enough they had to ape Seven Samurai they had to throw Man of Lamancha in there too.

ThatScoobyDoom: I was gonna get to the shirtlessness…which is…beyond strange…but I was just wondering if you liked it.
Be fair, Han says they saw 10 Spacers already they were all inept.

Jesus, you are a cultured motherfucker.
I mean, I’ve heard of this shit but I couldn’t have nailed down where it’s from. Settle down Mr. College!
What do you think of this so called Jedi?
I know nothing of him beyond this intro but something makes me doubt he’s a real Jedi.

What do you think of this cavalcade of wacky bastards, including a ratfaced teddy bear/porcupine, the cat-eyed lady from Han’s past, yet another Luke clown and his wisecracking droid…and I leaving anybody else out?
No, that must be them all…oh, wasn’t there a pissed off bunny wabbit or something?

@Fitzman73: Yeah I loved it, shirtless Han was hot.
Beefcake.

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I can’t remember for sure but I don’t think that guy is a real Jedi.
I think he’s just nuts.
I never connected the two but in the old West End Star Wars role playing game they had a character class that you could be called “Quixotic Jedi”.
Basically a guy that’s just a little force sensitive and goes around pretending he’s a Jedi.
I’ll bet this comic book was the inspiration for that.
Hard for me to believe this comic book at that game that I played extensively were only 10 years apart.

They really went all out on that whacky characters.
Jaxxon the space bunny is by far the most remembered and talked about thing to come from this comic series.
He’s not that out of place really except he talks like 1920s gangster.
And much to my disappointment they predictably mention Space Carrots.

Fun fact, the skeleton of one of these space rabbits makes a cameo in the background of a Clone Wars episode.
Chronologically it couldn’t be Jaxxon himself but it was definitely one of these rabbits.

ThatScoobyDoom: Talk about awkward though, do they think that Han doing shirtless interviews is…intimidating?
Cause I couldn’t take the shirtless dude with the big furry seriously.

He sounds nuts, I wanna know how this dude got that Saber.
Doubtful it’ll ever get explained though.

Where do you fall on Jaxx?
You’ve said in the past he was one of the most controversial characters in Star Wars history.

Wait, so these bunnies are actually canon???

@Fitzman73: Apparently yes they are.

I’m ok with Jax.
He’s silly in the comics but judging by some of the character designs that would show up in the prequels was he really outlandish?
The big problem I have is how they constantly reference rabbits or things that rabbits do or whatever the fuck.
There’s no evidence that rabbits exist within the universe so he should only look like a rabbit to us, to the characters in universe he should just be another alien species.

ThatScoobyDoom: See, that’s a great point.
Given the prequels gave us some weird shit, why is he such a touchy issue?
I think the reason why has to be because he’s so real world.
Everything in the prequels is like real world but put through an alien filter.
Jax is just green Bugs Bunny in a space suit.
Jar Jar is very similar, in a way, but he’s a giant platypus/fish/lizard/frog, you can’t look at him and find one clear creature from our world to draw a direct line too.

But in all actuality he fits in the universe perfectly, specifically the OT.
The OT had many creatures from our world that were basically just anthropomorphized.
Examples being Bothans (which are descendants of felines), Chadra-Fans (which are rodent-like and look like bats), Hutts (slugs), Klatooinians (giant bulldogs), Nelvaans (giant wolves), Shistavanens (more giant wolves), and most famously Gamorreans & Ugnaughts (both pigs).

For the record, I think Jaxxon is fuckin’ awesome!

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@Fitzman73: I agree, he’s at least stylistically interesting unlike the other aliens they’ve put in these comics so far.

Did your ears perk up when that farm boy called himself The Starkiller Kid?

ThatScoobyDoom: Totally!
The other folks are either humans, deformed humans, or some attempt to be exotic.
My only critque would be to tone down the bright red jump suit.

They did!
They love that name in Star Wars.

Fun fact: When I played Star Wars: Battlefront II (which you’ll recall was my first real Star Wars experiance) my save data name/call sign was Killstar-1.

So next in the story, Han has assembled his motley crew, Jax the Rabbit has dispatched the pimple faced demon.
While talking to The StarKiller Kid, Han begins to wonder how Luke is doing.
Cut to Luke prepping to take off insearch of a new place to set up a Rebel base.

What do you think of that transition and development?

@Fitzman73: Oof.
That transition was ham fisted.
And weird too that they would cut away for like 8 panels and then go back to Han.

ThatScoobyDoom: My thoughts exactly.
I guess that they figured folks would be so worried about Luke they’d better at least check in on him to feed that interest.
I found it telling that the first arc was like “fuck the star, lets follow the cowboy…wait, space cowboy!”.

@Fitzman73: Yeah I guess they were like hey we just spent 6 issues focused on this kid, let’s do a pirate story!

ThatScoobyDoom: And I think it works, at least for this issue.

So after Luke recaps the movie, he hamfistedly sends us back to Han…eho is still shirtlessly interviewing!
The next day Han and the group of goofnuts head out for band practice and ol herpy face shows up with arrogant prick to dick wave at Han and Co.

What do you think of that?
Comes off a bit too mustache twirly for me.

@Fitzman73: Well he does have the mustache for it.

I actually did like that the guy that tipped him off to Han’s team of expendables was the warty face dude they’ve had beef with all issue.
That was at least some kind of payoff

ThatScoobyDoom: I know he does, that’s what makes it worse.

Me too, makes sense and makes the shit with him earlier mean something.
Doesn’t feel like a waste of pages/panels like alot of Issue 7 did.

Ready to head into Issue 9?

@Fitzman73: And leave this masterpiece behind?
Um.
Yes please.
It can only get better, right?
Right?

ThatScoobyDoom: Hey, after 7, 8 was a masterwork!
Art was way better, story was better in every way, pacing, humor, pay-offs.
…but I fear it shall go down hill…

@Fitzman73: Well, let’s get to it.

Cover?

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ThatScoobyDoom: A bit misleading, sorta like the last was, looks like the battle is in space.
Jax looks fucked up for damn sure.
Han’s left blast is just aimlessly firing.

Decent enough, what do you think?

@Fitzman73: It’s ok.
Again it’s a very 70s Marvel cover.
It’s fascinating to me how you can just look at Marvel comics (and maybe comics in general) and just know what decade they were produced in inspecting nothing more than the way the shot is composed and the color palette.

I was going to point out the star field background.
If they’d gone with a normal sky it would’ve been a pretty accurate advertisement for what’s inside, kinda.
But again they have to remind people that this shit is happening IN SPACE!!!

The text above the logo says “At Last! Beyond the Movie! Beyond the Galaxy!” What the fuck does that even mean?
Beyond the galaxy?
Beyond OUR galaxy?
Well no shit it’s a galaxy far far away just like the movie.
Or do they mean beyond the galaxy in the movie even?
And if so, who are they shitting?
They didn’t go through a wormhole in issue 7.

ThatScoobyDoom: I think it goes back to the conversation we had during the first arc, the trippy goofballs conversation.
Shit was bolder back then, gutsy, ballsy.
They took chances and did weird shit that eventually became the style for the decades they were done in.
Maybe it’s just me, but everything for the last 15 years or so has been pretty cookie cutter with no real groundbreaking chances taken.

Except for the speeder riders being different than the ones in the iss, it would be.
Yeah, they really wanna drive that home…sorry, space home.

Ya know, I didn’t even pay attention to that on the last 2.
That is a bit of a head scratcher.
If I can borrow your apologist role for a moment, maybe it means “beyond the galaxy…you know!”?
Makes sense…but not clear.

BTW, just a quick reminder, this is set in space…don’t want anybody to forget that little known fact.
Star Wars is set in space.
All clear?
Okay…they’ll remind us again in a few pages though just in case we forget.

@Fitzman73: On the cover Han tells Chewie to keep shooting, yet he’s not even in the frame is he?

ThatScoobyDoom: I think that weird looking being with the Creature From The Black Lagoon face on the far left might be Chewie.

What do you think of Jax’s Doom prediction?
Seems a bit grim for the long ear.

@Fitzman73: Yeah I thought that too but he’s really spikey so I thought maybe it was the porcupine dude.

Grim yes.
But this is an adventure beyond the galaxy bro, shit is going to get real.

ThatScoobyDoom: I did too, but given the color I argued with myself that it must be chewie.
Another fault in coloring with these.

Lol!

So whatcha think of the insidy parts?

@Fitzman73: The art looks more like the Chaykin art we’ve seen.
Like last issue was an anomoly or something.
Did you think that too?

ThatScoobyDoom: Yes!
I think with this issue, more than any other, you can tell who did what.
That opening page (153) is clearly not Chaykin.
Chewie looks perfect, almost the print version of rotoscoped.
The Banthas are totally different…they’re actually Banthas now!

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Page 154 is great too…then it goes downhill fast.
Han takes a turn and starts looking…tranny-esque is they only way to describe it.
Look at the bottom of 159, he looks like a middle-age lady in a wig.

There are spots of good that can only be attributed to Palmer, I’ll mention more of it later when we get into the story.

@Fitzman73: Good point.
I forgot they have him listed as co penciller now, so you’re right I’ll bet just like the prior issue, he went in and made things look like they should.
That’s gotta be why.
Because yeah the banthas look like banthas.

I didn’t check but I’m wondering if the inker changed?
Like was it the same guy doing the last issue because prior to that I thought the lines were really thick, and with this issue we’re back to heavy ink.

ThatScoobyDoom: It’s really strange too.
Back in the day when you had to wait 30 days to read the next issue it was probably hardly noticeable, but now it sticks out like a dogs red thing.

Issue 7 was Embellished by Frank Springer and Colored by Carl Gafford.
Issue 8 was Embellished and Colored by Palmer.
Issue 9 was Co-Illustrated and Colored by Palmer.
What’s the difference between Inker, Colorist, and Embellisher?

@Fitzman73: Well, inker and embellisher are kinda the same thing.
Colorist adds the color, obviously.
My guess is that on issue 8, Palmer actually did some of the illustrating too but didn’t get a credit until issue 9.
I’ll bet on issue 9 they both inked thier own work which is why there’s no credit for inker.

ThatScoobyDoom: And that probably explains why the differences are so big from page too page.
Not sure how many pix I’ll be able to post with this but it has really no sense of continuity, you can tell 2 people did it with contrasting styles.

Incase I didn’t mention it, that opening page is awesome!

Lets get into the story, what do you think of the start as our great protectors head to the farm to prep for battle?

@Fitzman73: This felt a lot like filler to me.
But those scavenger “birds” they had to fight were straight up nightmarish.
They had human faces!
This also gave Han a chance to save a girl who turns out as luck would have it is the daughter of a big shot in the village they’re going to protect.
Brownie points.

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ThatScoobyDoom: Yep, totally agree.
For me, last issue was pretty great but this shit got boring again real quick.
This arc is really losing my interest, and it even has green Bugs Bunny going for it.

Like a slightly mutated version of The Vulture, seems Marvel was stealing from themselves there.

How it she so young, bright eyed, & nubile yet her Dad is so old, crusty, & frail?
Wouldn’t he be wisping (I can’t really say shooting, can I?) dust at that point?
Dude looks older that Yoda’s frail wrankled ass!

Whatchu think of the Luke/Leia interlude this go round?

@Fitzman73: Yeah what’s up with those villagers in general?
They went from Kung Fu Theater extras to Tatooine farmers to now some kind of South American indian tribe or something.
They’ve literally been drawn 3 completely different ways so far.

I guess life is tough for these guys maybe he’s only 45. Lol.
I did find it amusing that Han was gonna try and break off a piece of that until he found out who her dad was and it turned into an awkward “well nice meeting you young lady”.

I thought the Luke/Leia interlude worked a lot better this time.
The only thing I had a slight issue with was the fact that Luke is flying the blockade runner by himself?
That’s not a single person vehicle.
It’s an odd choice to send him in, but I guess they didn’t have anything else?
And I guess spaceships are like cars?
As long as you know how to operate one you know how to operate any?

ThatScoobyDoom: Exactly!
Again, there is no sense of continuity what so ever in the art here!
If you have bad comprehension you’d totally be screwed because shit changes not only by the book but by the page!
It’s nuts!

If he’s 45 I’ll eat my toe jam!
That dude is eleventy at the least.
He did everything but palm her face and push her away. Lol

Definetly not as kitschy this time, but the writing/omniscient narration felt a little haughty to me.
“For us, however, the exigencies of time and space do not exist. Thus, let us skip lightly across the void of space…”
Dude thinks he’s Shakespeare or something.
That was something I wanted to ask, that’s the same type of ship that Bail has in III and Leia has at the start of IV, right?
That would take more that a fresh faced farm boy, an Astromech, and a Protocol droid to fly, no?

@Fitzman73: I would think so.
I mean I don’t think we ever see the cockpit of that ship (and it is the same ship in 3 and 4) but I would think there’d at least be 2 pilots and a navigator?
I don’t know.
Plus don’t they need any kind of crew or military personnel on board or anything?

That narration is classic 70s Marvel.
They did that kind of story recap in all those old book and it drives me nuts.
And that overly literary writing style is a staple of the times too.

ThatScoobyDoom: Well, I think for this they didn’t wanna risk the people, they just want to find a new base.
But this isn’t even a skeleton crew, even the damn Ebon Hawk needed a few crew members to make it fly.
What happens if the engine or hyperdrive fails?
Is Luke, all in his own little onesy, able to handle that?
He never showed the mechanical expertise that Anakin had, I’d say no.
This isn’t one that I feel they can hide behind the excuse of “undefined Star Wars”.

I can understand why, it’s sort of acceptable in prose, but once you introduce a visual it gets pretty lameass pretty quick.

@Fitzman73: Yeah all that prose really wasted and does feel forced and lame.
A little is fine but don’t try to sound like Dickens or some epic literary masterpiece it just doesn’t fit.

And as we’ll see in the coming issues he is on his own with just the droids for backup and he’s really going to wish he had a squad of commandos with him.

I like that we get to see Leia’s inner conflict of being expected to be a leader and not a fighter wanting to be out there as one of the boys kicking ass and after his transmission is cut off saying fuck it I’m going to find him.

ThatScoobyDoom: Exactly.
Save that shit for the recaps at the start, not for the body of the issue.

Does shit get that bad for Sky Guy Jr?

And didn’t that one dude basically tell her “don’t worry about it, not your concern.” just before she left?

@Fitzman73: Well, they don’t get Death Star escape bad but they’re not great.

Yeah they try to keep her all safe and ladylike and she’s like fuck that, later pussies.

ThatScoobyDoom: But all things considered, 1 against 100 type shit?

At this point we’re lead to believe it’s because she loves Luke, based solely on the movie issues.
Do you find it weird, knowing what we know now, that she doesn’t seem to give 2 shits about Han?
In those first 6 they really made it seem like a love triangle but there’s none of that here.

@Fitzman73: They really did go for the Luke/Leia romance and left Han to twist.
The same thing happens in Splinter of the Mind’s Eye, along with a bunch of other sacrilegious way off base action.
They had no idea where the story would be going, and everyone just assumed it was Luke/Leia.
It’s definitely creepy when you read this stuff after all the facts have been presented.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, it is.
But I can put that aside and understand it.
Considering the time, the stranger thing to me is to just drop Han as an interest for her and have her just go full steam ahead for Luke.

Think about it, who’s really in more danger?
The unknown farm boy in the Rebel vehicle or the smuggler who has a debt with a ruthless gangster?
Sure, the farm boy is under threat from the galaxy but he could play dumb and claim he stole the Rebel ship.
Han is on his own (with Chewie) against a dude with connections to fuck his shit up.

@Fitzman73: Yeah but Leia doesn’t know at this point that Han’s in trouble.
Last she saw he was flying off with a cargo hold full of “treasure” as Roy Thomas insisted on calling it and was presumably a quick hop away from clearing things up with Jabba.

Luke on the other hand, she knows he’s in trouble and not only that the future survival of the Rebel Alliance hangs in the balance.
If he fails at his mission or is killed who knows if they have enough time to send out another scouting party and get off Yavin before Vader comes back and goes all Hoth on them.

ThatScoobyDoom: Fair points both.

So after Leia heads out to help that son of the maker, all hell breaks loose as The Arrogant One shows up to screw with the farmers.
Threatening to take the hotzi totzi farmers daughter, Merri, which Han takes umbridge too as he wants her for himself.
As the baddies ride in, Jax makes more bunny mentions.

What do you think of all that?

@Fitzman73: It was actually a surprisingly fun battle.
I wasn’t expecting them to take losses so soon though.
I forgot Don Wan takes a dirt nap already.
So much for those Jedi skills.

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ThatScoobyDoom: And fast paced.
I guess that answers my question about that, huh.
Were you disappointed to see the robut go?

Then old guy shows his O-Face and he unleashes his Behemoth in a large splash page

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@Fitzman73: I was actually.
That was pretty ham fisted too, “I don’t know why but I have to a blaster bolt for that kid that treats me like property”.

Yes!
What did you think of that twist at the end?
I think that’s the first time we get a surprise ending along with the “to be continued”.
I liked it, I thought that part worked really well.

ThatScoobyDoom: I like that little bot almost as much as I like Jax.
I like the near sentient Droids in Star Wars so much more for some reason, maybe because it’s not how it’s supposed to be.

When Jax says the old guy needs to get out of the way or he’ll get killed and they cut to gramps in a trance I thought it would be lame as shit.
Then you see that critter burst forth from the ground.
It was perfect!
For the first time in this damn arc I really wanted to see what happened next.

Strange because I started out hating this issue.

@Fitzman73: Right me too, as soon as he started talking about their protector though I remembered what was going to happen and that the 7 Samurai story line was about to be nuked.

ThatScoobyDoom: Does that improve the arc for you?

It’s definetly one hell of a cliffhanger.
That critter looks cool here, but it looks even better in the renderings in the next issue.

@Fitzman73: Yeah definitely.
For me it totally saves this story and sends it in a different direction.

ThatScoobyDoom: Anything more to say about this issue before we start to bring this thang in for a proper landing?

@Fitzman73: Not really, I’m curious to see how this turns out.
I read this maybe 2 years ago but I have no clue what’s going to happen.

ThatScoobyDoom: Welcome to my world, sir.

Issue 10 cover, go!

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@Fitzman73: Cover.
Issue 10.
STOP!
Just.
STOP.

This may be one of the worst covers I’ve ever seen.

Han looks like Willem Dafoe on crank, Chewie’s bowcaster arms are bent, the monster looks like they traced a photo of an iguana, and they’re, AGAIN, in the vaccuum of space with apparently no atmosphere?

In a comic series whose covers have been infamously bad so far this one plumbs new depths.
It’s a huge step backward.

ThatScoobyDoom: I wouldn’t be that hard on it.

If not for the battle taking place in the stars…again (*facepalm*) …it wouldn’t be to bad of a representation of what’s inside…even though everybody and everything is WAY off model.

And on the literal space battles front, in future issues that actually happens!
Ooofah!

I’d say it looks more like a green turd with claws and a head fin.

I didn’t notice the “bowcaster” til you mentioned it, I think it’s unfair to even call it a bowcaster.
Looks like a blaster with 2 static electric balls on it.

Also, how many goddamn times is Han gonna say “keep firing”?
Talk about one note…

@Fitzman73: Like no shit dude was he NOT firing still?
Why does he need to keep ordering people to keep firing?
If they stop it means their ass for sure so why does he have to micro manage like that?

So, big spoilers, huge surprise on the second page.
Have you seen it yet?

ThatScoobyDoom: Fuckin’ A!
I can imagine a Robot Chicken-esque sketch about that scenario.
“Han: KEEP FIRING OR WE’RE ALL IN TROUBLE!
*shoulders sag in defeat*
Chewie: Do you ever stop and think about how hurtful that is? Assuming I’m too dumb to return fire. It’s just…I don’t think you respect me anymore, Han.” Hehehe

I didn’t read it yet…but I peeked.
Art first, Fitz!
Gotta tease these kids.

@Fitzman73: The interior art is pretty much the same as it’s been.
You’ve still got the dueling pencillers going on with Chaykin and Palmer so some pages are better than others.
I did like the design of the monster.
He looks way better than on the cover for sure.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, like I said before, the creature looks like a fin headed turd on the cover but totally different on the inside.
Looks totally different from the final page of the last issue too.
Once again, not alot of consistancy from these yayhoos.

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This is Chaykin and Palmer’s swan song also, at least for the next 36 issues.
Palmer came back as Inker on 46, left, then came back as Co-Artist on 49 & 50, then back to Inker after that for a while, then he flip flopped back and forth.
As far as I can see, Chaykin didn’t come back and I can’t say I’ll miss him.

Now, there are some highlights in this issue.
The 2 monster splash pages immediately jump too mind for me.
Anything like that for you?

@Fitzman73: I was going to mention that, that the next issue not only starts a new arc but there’s wholesale player change in the creative department.
Carmine Infantino takes over pencils and Archie Goodwin takes over writing from Roy Thomas.
The art for sure gets a HUGE upgrade.
Infantino’s style is way cleaner and in my opinion aesthetically pleasing.

But that’s for another day, sadly. Ha ha.

Those splash pages are the highlight.
I really liked the one on the first page that’s a wide shot of the whole area with the monster in the center.
There’s a lot of dimensions in it, you’ve got good guys in the foreground, the monster farther off in the background, and the raiders’ rocket cycles circling in the midground.

The only other panel that stuck out for me was the shot of Leia’s starship flying through space.
I really like the look of this image.
The ship design is very similar to a ship that shows up in the original Battlestar Galactica.

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ThatScoobyDoom: Real quick I just wanna say that I love the way he draws Leia.

Totally, to see such depth is a great change of pace.
Rather refreshing given the wonky quality we’ve gotten used to.

That shit is interesting, if you flip the book it kinda looks like a body to me.
Leia looks really pretty in those panels too.

Story, you dig it?

@Fitzman73: Story was ok, I thought the final solution to defeat the monster was kinda hokey, but the pulled a nice surprise by magically bringing back a character we thought had become one with the Force last issue so that made the fight more interesting.

You want to do the big reveal?
What did you think of his return and do you buy the reasoning behind his survival?

ThatScoobyDoom: It was strange to say the least.
This issue took it from a Western to a Godzilla movie and the end flipped it into an episode of the original Power Rangers.
Again strange.
Felt like the just ran out of pages and said “to hell with it, the monster is dead now” and printed it.

Brave Sir Cadagon returned, or rather, Don-Wan Kihotay rose from his overacted grave.
I went to back look at his “death” in the previous issue and noticed him holding a lance in the first panel like he was prepped for a joust.
Oy vey!

Do I buy his survival or reasoning?
HEEEEELLLLLLLL NO!
I’m with what you said about him being a real Jedi, he’s a big fat phony!
That was a death scream!

And as far as big reveal, to me it almost felt like they were saying to the readers “of course he’s not dead you retards” because look at how he’s revealed to be alive.
On page 172 of your omnibus, last panel, he’s standing there behind Han’s old girlfriend, lady hot shorts.
Then his first conversation in this issue is basically
(note dear readers this isn’t quoted)
DWQ: This armor saved me from the blast but I doubt it’ll save me from the beast.
Han: shut up and hide.
No “HOLY SPACE SHIT, DON WAN!!! YOU’RE ALIVE!!!” Just “then hide behind the rocks”.
It felt like a Duh moment.
I would have prefered he stayed dead and Han grabbed his saber.

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What do you think of the beast shooting fricken laser beams from it’s horny head?

@Fitzman73: Exactly.
I questioned my own sanity when I saw him in that panel.
For a split second I thought wait did we totally misread that last issue?
I actually went back and checked.
If stormtrooper armor doesn’t stop a direct blaster hit, no way does his plate mail, sorry SPACE plate mail.
I was actually hoping they’d just let it ride and not even bother explaining.
It would’ve been more forgivable in my opinion.

The laser was the next thing I was going to bring up.
I didn’t have a problem with it except it felt like a last minute addition because it’s just THERE.
No explanation, no structure or orrafice to come out of, it just comes out if its skin?

ThatScoobyDoom: Well, spinning out of that and trying to make it make sense (and no need to point it out, I know this is reaching), Stormtrooper armor is mass produced.
His space armor is special made for a *eye roll* Jedi, maybe it’s stronger because of that?
But I agree, had he just said it was just a flesh wound and they moved on it would have been much more palatable.

I think it shoots out of one of it’s horns, doesn’t it?
But even if it doesn’t, why the fuck is it there?
It feels like it’s just there to make it seem like as big a threat as the Death Star, which I don’t think was needed.
Increasing the threat just for the sake of increasing the threat makes it all weaker IMO.

@Fitzman73: Right it was already stomping the fuck out of everything and everybody, spoiler alert: squashed both The Arrogant One AND the crazy old shaman with one stomp.
I have to hand it to them.
That was a helluva way to resolve those plot points with single panel.

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I don’t know, it didn’t look like it was coming from anything to me but you’re right who cares it was dumb either way.
Didn’t make the connection with the Death Star, but you’re right it’s exactly like that.

As lame as that laser was, the method by which Han finally kills thing is almost as ridiculous.

ThatScoobyDoom: How many times have I (or we) said that it feels rushed?
Instead of figuring something out or saving them for potential future stories we get “um…um…um, fuck it squish ’em, we need to wrap this shit up! We go to print tomorrow!”

It’s like “here’s the threat…now Here’s The Threat…NOW HERE’S THE THREAT” they keep pushing it, ramping up the stakes and it gets laughable.
Just gets ridiculously absurd.

You mean Han’s trench run?
Go on, tell ’em how fuckin’ dumb it is.
Go on!

@Fitzman73: How many times?
I don’t know, how many issues have we done?

You mean the trench run where he uses Chewie as his x-wing?
Holy hell.
So basically he remembers hear about a jedi that once killed a monster like this using a lightsaber to short out the beast’s laser.
Problem is he’s not fast enough to get close to it before it fries him with said laser but guess who is?
Homeboy literal has Chewie pick him up under one arm and run him like a football up close to the monster so he can stab it and make it go kablooey.

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Oh and you’re right, he calls it the monster’s “fin beam” so I guess it’s supposed to just be coming off the thing’s head fin, which is not drawn clearly at all.

ThatScoobyDoom: Lol, 10?
4?
You decide!

Yeah, in some panels it looks like it’s shooting between the spikes from the skull.

That is incredibly stupid, but you know you’d have popped wood had they pulled a Colossus/Wolvie and done a Fastball Special instead!
Don Wan screams blasphamy as Solo snatches his lightsaber too!
And how the hell did Han hear about a Jedi killing a monster with a lightsaber, more importantly, why would he deny the power of the Jedi/The Force having heard such a tale?

So, he stabs the bastardized Barney, the monster goes apeshit crazy because of it, and the Dino disintergrates.

We have now way of knowing, but if I had money I’d bet that Palmer drew that first splash page of the Behemoth and Chaykin drew this zappy disintergration.

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@Fitzman73: That’s a pretty good bet.

Exactly.
He literally JUST SAID in theaters he didn’t believe in Jedi nonsense so why would he believe a tall tale like that?
I guess desperate times call for desperate measures.

And then after all is said and done the Starkiller Kid gets the hot piece of ace farmer’s daughter and decides he’ll just stay and be a farmer now too.
So with that the arc comes full circle because SPOILERS that’s what happens at the end of Seven Samurai too.

ThatScoobyDoom: Fuck a theater, what about 7 issues ago???
Now, issue 3 was WRITTEN by Roy Thomas and here he’s listed as Co-Plotter with Chaykin while Don Glut is “Scriptwriter”.
Is this a case of too many cooks in the kitchen maybe?

Once again, can you say rushed and ham fisted?
Starkiller Kid: I’m gonna leave cause you won’t look at me.
Hot lady: I’m looking now.
SKK: You’ll touch it? I’LL STAY!!!
All that in 3 panels, are you fuckin’ shittin’ me?
I mean, way to have conviction you little turd!
She finally bats a lash his way and the little pricks is her’s for life?
Zzzzzzzzzzzz

So overall, how do you feel about this issue?

@Fitzman73: Way too many cooks.
This is an example maybe of the Marvel Method gone awry.
That old way of making comics may have given birth to some of the greatest stuff ever, but in the wrong hands it lays out some real zeros too.

Might also still be an example of the creators no clue what to do with this new white hot property and absolutely no time to figure it out.
They wanted to cash in while the movie was still huge, not realizing hey it’s not going anywhere.
They had to get these issues to print as fast as possible so it’s no wonder these early issues are fucking unbearable.

ThatScoobyDoom: No shit!
But it’s a monthy book, not bi-weekly, they needed to slow the fuck down a bit and let this shit breath or it turns out like this, rushed and wonky as hell.

This 4 issue arc, how do you feel about it as a whole?
Cause it’s been a rollercoaster for damn sure.

@Fitzman73: As a whole, the story is pretty formulaic and kind of boring, but it does take a couple of unexpected turns and there were definitely a few things I did like.
Mostly though it’s pretty cheezy.

ThatScoobyDoom: I would definetly have to agree, I think issue 2 was the peak for me and it kinda just slowly glided downhill in 3.
The pacing of 4 went off the deep end.

As you said before, you can really see how early in the saga this was and how little control George had, because it kinda goes off the rails of what is Star Wars fast out of the gate.

But I will say this, I love Jaxxon!
I’d love to see him on screen.

@Fitzman73: I think you could definitely do some cool shit with that character if you dirtied him up a little and made him just tad more alien and tad less exactly like green Bugs Bunny.
Oh, and totally drop all the references to bunnies, rabbits, carrots, hopping, etc.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yes!
Maybe even if you sort of reverse it a bit and make him look a little monsterous but make him a sweet heart.

Or just scar him up, make him a bit darker shade of green, lost the spacesuit, give him some armor.
He’s clearly tough, but he seems more like he’s overcompensating for his cute and fluffiness.

Back to the arc though, I think it’s be alot better to if they quit putting “Space” infront of everything that comes from reality to make it seem scifi.
It’s like Chinese food, we call it Chinese food but if you go to China it’s fuckin’ food!
If your in space this shit is normal, no need to qualify it.
It comes off extremely ridiculous.

@Fitzman73: It definitely does, we’ve said it before but man what a 60s/70s trope.

ThatScoobyDoom: I know we’ve said it before, but it needs to be repeated, FUCKIN’ STOP IT!!!

I guess we can Ol Yeller this one, unless you have anything else to say about this sad bastard.

@Fitzman73: Bang.

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If you want more of Fitz, you can follow him on twitter at http://Twitter.Com/Fitzman73
You’ve gotta go listen to his podcast Just Jump To The End (which you can also follow on twitter at http://Twitter.Com/JJ2End) that he does with his sister @Tacky1z, it’s available for download at http://jj2end.com.
I dig it so much I’ve done intros for them and have many more too come.
You can also listen to the Audio version of Typecast #9 from there.

Share this post on Twitter with the HashTag #Typecast.

And finally!
The world is a pretty shitty place, try to make it a little bit better by not being an dickhead and adding to the shit pile.
See ya next time.

Typecast #10: Doom-vengers Assemble!

Again, things are gonna be a bit different this time around.
Everybody that I’ve done a Typecast thus far is back for a rapid fire round of fun.
Basically, you’re getting 4 Typecasts for the price of one!

Everybody’s names appear in red and link to their respective sites, twitters, and podcasts.
@TESDGroupie‘s links to her Twitter http://twitter.com/TESDGroupie
SpiderScooby‘s links to his site http://ScoobyFan.Net.
@ScoobyAddict‘s links to her Twitter http://Twitter.com/ScoobyAddict.
@Fitzman73‘s links to his podcast Just Jump To The End.

These conversations appear just as they were had, all flaws intact and no edits to maintain honesty.

First up is @TESDGroupie, to talk MallRats 2, and away we go!

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ThatScoobyDoom: I was gonna get all eloquent and wax rhapsodically but fuck dat noise, Mallrats 2!
Are you as out of your goddamn mind excited for it as I am???

@TESDGroupie: More than excited, I was surprised at first… it sort of came unexpectedly… but now that I’ve seen Jason Lee’s picture (in his instagram no less) I’m so in!!!
What is making you so excited?

ThatScoobyDoom: I was shocked when I heard the rumblings too, but before I could google it Gigliotti tweeted a link confirming it.
I can’t explain how excited I was!
Is that the pic that Kev tweeted of Lee?

That’s a hard question to answer.
It might be because Mallrats was the first View Askew movie I saw, it might be because the cast was so damn strong, it might be because there are so many possiblities for the story.
Hell, it might even be because the story grew out of Kev wanting to feel a connection with Jim Jacks after falling out of contact with the dude.
I don’t know, but I’m almost more excited for this than I am for Clerks III…and I am so fuckin’ ready for that!

Have you been able to nail down what exactly it is that has you so fired up for it?

@TESDGroupie: Yes, it was the same picture Kevin tweeted.

We always have attachment to the things that connected with us growing up, no matter what they were and where we are from.
I always loved the friendships: Jay and Silent Bob and especially TS and Brodie, and how ordinary days can be not so ordinary.
I have a terrible curiosity about the direction it will take, as you say there are so many options.
Actually the fact that Shannen Doherty has said yes made me more curious, cause I am not sure where that may lead to.
Can’t wait for more details and people, but I’m sure Kevin will fill us in as time goes by.

ThatScoobyDoom: That’s very true.
And I connected with Mallrats in a big way.
Right around the time I started getting into comics hardcore about 10 years ago.

It will be interesting to see if Kev can tap into that same goofy plainness that he used for Clerks & Mallrats and that we haven’t really seen since.

Doherty coming back does add a very interesting wrinkle.
Do you really think Brody and Renee are still together 20 years later?
I feel like they would have stayed together for like 5-10 years and probably gotten a divorce.

So far we know Rooker, Stan Lee, Jason Lee, Ethan Suplee, Doherty, Jay, and Silent Bob are all coming back (with another possible reveal tomorrow), who are you most excited to see returning?

@TESDGroupie: I really hope for that goofy plainness… in a way I think it’s what made it so charming.
I think the logic answer is that Brody and Renne are not still together, just can’t picture it.
You are optimistic, I think 5 years is way too long 🙂 But may be they are and it would be an interesting take on it.
I know by now how people settle when you grow into middle age… maybe this is the time when all that explodes and one of them goes #YOHO on things Of the peole on, I’m interesting in Ethan Suplee… curious to know what the take would be.
Of the non-announced yet, certainly I would love to see Steve-Dave and Fan Boy, and Jeremy London.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, I really hope it doesn’t get too complicated.
It did add to the charm, it was more simple than even Clerks in some ways.
2 dudes, no jobs, just fucking off in a mall.

Hahaha, really?
You think even 5 years is too much?

Wouldn’t it be funny if Willam became a College Professor? Lol
Seeing that goddamn sailboat may have opened up the world to him.

I think Bry and Walt are almost a lock, I missed them in Clerks II.
What do you think Steve-Dave & Fan Boy are up too now?

@TESDGroupie: Sometimes I just sit and have a good time, laugh and forget the outside.
Simple is definitely underrated and some times it’s unappreciated.
Sorry, but she seems a bit unbearable and entitled at times, and that can fed up people.
Sounds too crazy?
That is what I like about William being back… the possibilities are endless.
And being a College Professor would be an awesome idea!
I love Steve-Dave & Fan Boy so much (not too mention TESD,as you may know, lol) that I wish things stay as close as the same as possible: just hanging in malls, around comic book stores and bickering.
It would be comforting for me.
I don’t ask for much, right?
Did you have anything in mind for them?
I hope Walt has a second appearance as a wink to Mallrats.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’m with you, simple can be better sometimes.
And I love his more complicated stuff too.

I agree with that too.
And keep in mind, she dumped Brodie that morning and was already with Hamilton by noon!
Met his Mom and everything!
Not like she’s too trustworthy!

I’d like to see Steve-Dave and Fan Boy progress a bit, maybe owning a comic shop, doing something besides just being outraged about silly shit.

Do you think T.S. and Brandi are still together?

@TESDGroupie: I wish they are.
He is willing to fight for her when it is her father that is against it, it’s so endearing.
But I am not sure, there may be more things separating them than joining them, but they being together would mean love wins at the end.
And who doesn’t want to see that?
Too girly?
What’s your take on them?

ThatScoobyDoom: I think their chances are far better than Brodie and Renee’s.
They, for the most part, seem to like one another.
Sure, they have some problems, but nothing they can’t overcome just so long as they stick together.

Do you think Mr. Svenning is still hating T.S. after all these years?

@TESDGroupie: That sounds like I could have said it 😉 I’m not sure if he hates him, but certainly the dislike still exists. One you set your mind that he is not good enough for your precious daughter, nothing will make it good enough. I am certain that he is more subtle about it, and if he tries things, it is going to be in a more concealed way.

By the way have you seen??? … https://twitter.com/ThatKevinSmith/status/581450106920042497

ThatScoobyDoom: Hahaha, thanks!

I don’t know, He and Brodie seemed high on his shit list.
Hard to imagine him ever coming to terms with him being his son in law.
To quote @NeilGat, he’s about as subtle as surprise prision rape.

I was gonna send that to you, I saw it about an hour after he posted that.
I like how he’s revealing a returning cast member every day or so.

@TESDGroupie: Maybe he will not be as subtle, maybe I see it from my perspective.
Women can be more Machiavellian, I guess, and pretend to get along just to not disturb the other person.
Wow, this could be an interesting part too.
Though I always trust what @NeilGat says.
I think that the revealing is being one of the most fun part of the whole thing.
Really well done, but also playing to that love people have for the movie… and I can’t wait for Bry and Walt’s pic 🙂
*fingers crossed*

ThatScoobyDoom: I would bet on that, you can see it on twitter even.
I don’t know if you talk much with chicks on there, but some times I see chicks talking all sweet and then one will DM me and be like “can you believe this cunt?” and I’m always amazed by that.

Neil is a motherfuckin’ genius!

4 folks left, they must be 2.

What do you think the chances of Affleck are?
Think he’ll flap away from Gotham for Kev?

@TESDGroupie: Agreed on the twitter thing…but we would be going into a whole tricky conversation going on that route 🙂
Couldn’t agree more with you.
He was one of my first followers, so almost three years surrounded by awesomeness.
As much as I would like, I don’t think Affleck will be back.
After being such an asshole in the movie, and the end part of the movie (with his new friends in the State Correctional Facility).
Not sure it is that much a Gotham related thing.
Though a cameo, even just walking Hitchcock style, would be fun.
Steve-Dave and Fan Boy are so part of that universe, they have to be there.
If not, it would really be heartbreaking
https://twitter.com/CgfFilm/status/581750458374443008

ThatScoobyDoom: I hear that! Lol

He was one of mine too, never miss an opportunity to praise Neil.
I think I joined about a month after him if I remember right, he followed me soon after and has been a big booster.

Playing Batman might make him too high profile, though it would bring some attention to it.
Kevin had said that he doesn’t really talk to the dude anymore, there’s no ill will there but their carreers have taken them apart.
But on this weeks HB-O Kev said every character from Mallrats is written to return he just hadn’t talked to every actor.
So using that as a segue into your other, I think it’s safe to say Bry and Walt are coming back.

Few other bits from this weeks HB-O, Kev said that they will be shooting Mallrats 2 at the end of this year and that Ralph will have a role.
I’m putting my money on Sean Hartle, the character that was only mentioned in the first and that Kev said Ralph will be playing in Clerks III.

Are you interested to see what Trish The Dish is up too?

@TESDGroupie: As said, I would love to see Affleck, but it does indeed seem hard, even if he has not been approached.
As you say, their careers are now too afar.
Good bet!
If Ralph is playing Sean in Clerks III, I do agree that there is a good chance that is the character he plays.
I love that from Kevin movies, seeing characters moving from one movie to another, even if just for a brief moment.
That is what made it a universe for me.
I think it would be interesting to see what happened with Trish.
After her book being so successful (even with a movie), what can she be doing?
And being so accomplished, if the way is down… a lot of opportunities here, actually.

ThatScoobyDoom: Indeed, but it makes me wonder what Kev wrote for him.
One would think he’d still be in prision but sounds like he’s out.

That was what they said a long time ago.
I’m glad Kev is giving Ralph work.
We can all hear from Family Guy and HB-O how talented he is.

Totally!
Fuck Marvel, Kev has been doing the whole “shared universe” thing for 20 fuckin’ years!
For comic/tv/film nerds, that is what makes his shit so cool.
Like you said, even if it’s just a moment, is strengthens the whole verse by having the characters appear again and again.
That’s why Jay And Silent Bob Strike Back was so great, every character was in there.
Fuckin’ awesome!

Yes, she could have ridden the wave and stayed a success or been crushed by achieving so much so soon.
The whole movie has so much potential!

@TESDGroupie: Maybe they could do like for Red State and have that part animated to see it 🙂
It is great seeing Ralph in Kevin movies.
I even found some the Joe Schmo show episodes and he was great.
I really love Ralph in HB-O.
Besides being voice talented, he is such a fast thinker and so funny.
Would love to see a live so, but that is really far and costy for me, so I have enough with dreaming about returning to the Stash.
That was one of the things that got me hooked about his films, the callback references and people.
It was so much fun.
Jay And Silent Bob Strike Back is indeed great in that aspect… so exciting to see people you know popping up as the story moves.
I even think Trish could be used as a metaphor for Kevin.
Similar start in a way, but we’ll see… I think this may be the movie with the most open opportunities on how things may continue

ThatScoobyDoom: Was that ending ever animated?

He’s been in both of Seth MacFarlane’s movies too.
I’ve never seen Joe Schmo, but it sounds funny as fuck.
Totally, the dude has a mad fuckin’ talent we get to hear all the time but I wish we got to see it more often.
I think tickets are only $20, so if you ever happen to be coming to the states…

The same for me, not only are they funny they have a sense of history.

Exactly, it seems like it’ll sorta be a spiritual sequel to J&SBSB in a way.
…and if Kev keeps going the way he’s going, an actual sequel to Strike Back may not be to crazy an idea!

@TESDGroupie: Hope you can see it: the tweet https://twitter.com/ThatKevinSmith/status/581228915441606656 the link to the video http://bcove.me/cv0jopa4

I have seen ‘Ted’, but I haven’t seen ‘A million ways to die in the West’ though.
I’ve seen a bit of the first season of Joe Schmo and of the third.
The third is great because he plays the host but he is a bounty hunter looking for a replacement.
And one of the candidates is Lorenzo Lamas, who is incredibly funny.
LA is out of the scope of my US visits.
And last year I missed the Tenderloins in Chicago by a week more or less.
It sucks I missed HBO in the UK; couldn’t go because of work.
And WSY was during Easter week, so you should have seen the prices for tickets and hotels in London.
I think the trip would have been more expensive than going to the Stash.

I thinks that sense of history is what made people connect.
It is not something that starts and finish, but something that goes on and grows with you.
That is why I liked Clerks II so much, because being closer in age to Kevin that I am sure you are, it is like friends that you reconnect with and just keep hearing how they are doing and have fun, no matter how many time has gone by.
Middle age is the time when people start longing for their youth, so I’m up to anything at this point 🙂

ThatScoobyDoom: I will be able to hopefully watch it by the time this is posted.
Is it as awesome as Kev described it a few years back?

Same here, Ted but not A Million Ways.
Season 3 was the season they did a like 2 years ago, right?
Totally understand the restrictions.
Sucks you missed it by a week though. 😦

It totally makes sense As I mentioned earlier, it’s what makes the Marvel Cinematic Universe work, at least on some level.
I’m almost 24 and I seriously pine for my youth every fuckin’ day, dear lady. Lol
So I completely understand that.

Anything else you wanna add about Mallrats 2?

@TESDGroupie: It is beyond awesome!
It has a little feel of the (c)Rapture.
He says this scene would probably have been more expensive that any of his movies.
That’s right, season 3 was a couple of years ago and season 1 and 2, early 2000s If you feel like that way about youth now, imagine in 15-20 years.
The things we loved in our youth give us comfort, I think.
And for me, going to the movies or a concert, was exciting, time with friends, laughs, and we never want to see that go.

Just one thing, I have read people wanting Q to be in the movie.
Some had enough with a Dogma-like cameo.
Others think that he should have a bigger part alongside Walt and Bry.
What’s your take on that?

ThatScoobyDoom: That sounds fuckin’ awesome!!!
I remember him saying that back when he first talked about it.

I agree, I’d give almost anything to go back about 10 years because now?
Now sucks.

It all depends on Q’s IJ shooting schedule, but I think it would be a cool nod to us Ants to have him as a third wheel to Steve-Dave and Fan Boy.
Kind of an uber nerd, hero worshipping them, trailing after them idolizing them as if they are important.
That would make me laugh.
What about you?

@TESDGroupie: Hope you can see it, because there are awesome little things that I don’t want to spoil.
It is funny how moments that I thought sucked, now I would love to go back to.

If Q can make it to record TESD, I’m sure he’ll manage to make this work.
At first, I was not sure how I felt.
I wanted him to be in the movie for sure, but that much?
And altering my beloved Steve-Dave and Fan Boy relationship?
But the way you say it sounds awesome, you’ve sold me.
Maybe he could be the Fan Boy Fan Boy 🙂
I don’t think I can improve your scenario, sounds amazing and with lots of awesome laughs.

ThatScoobyDoom: Can’t wait to give it a spin.
I hear ya, just when you think it couldn’t get worse…it did.

Better watch it or you’ll give me a big head. Lol
Thanks.
Yeah, I think it could be fun.
Fan-Boy: Tell ‘Em Steve-Dave!
Q: YEAH!
Steve-Dave/Fan-Boy: Shut up!
Q: Sorry sirs.

Oh, and for the record…MALLRATS WAS GOOD!!!

@TESDGroupie: You know I like your creativity and daring to be out there.
If that doesn’t happen in the movie, I hope they do it for instagram or something, lol.
And indeed… MALLRATS WAS GOOD!!!

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ThatScoobyDoom: The majority of the cast has been confirmed to return, including La Fours.
So besides Ben, who else is missing that you hope comes back?
I can only think of Miss Ivana.

@TESDGroupie: I think that if you go through the list of characters, the only “big” or better known ones left are: Shannon (Affleck), Brandi and Miss Ivana.
And since Affleck doesn’t seem likely -just in case, lol-, I would definitely choose Miss Ivana.
Would be interesting finding out what she is up to now 🙂

By the way, I think I found one with everybody https://twitter.com/Matt_Westphalen/status/585913023409172480

ThatScoobyDoom: Brandi is doing booze commercials for Dewars here in the States, not sure what else she’s been up too but she’s still working.
Ivana, not sure what she’s doing at all.

I actually have a group collage posted above that @JCynda made for me.
I hadn’t seen Mosier’s before, so thanks for that.

@TESDGroupie: Didn’t know about the commercial.
I read in one of the articles that apparently Priscilla Barnes has never stopped working and now is Jane the Virgin.
So who knows?
Would you be interested in any of the two?
Or who can I be forgetting about?

I was sure there were more collages around, but just in case 🙂

ThatScoobyDoom: Oh, I didn’t know that! I want her and Brandi back, if La Fours is back why not?
I can’t think of any others, maybe the kid that got stuck in the escalator? Lol

Where did the Mos pic come from?
Facebook?

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@TESDGroupie: The more the merrier indeed…Wouldn’t it be funny if there was a subtle callback to his son getting stuck in the elevator?
Done much better than this of course.

I’ve seen Mosier both in Facebook and instagram, but didn’t find it on Twitter.
https://instagram.com/p/ 1LTaD5xyxg/

ThatScoobyDoom: Any reference to it would be awesome!
If they met the kids Dad would be funny too, I doubt it would happen but it’d be kinda funny if escalator boy was Pickle Fuckers kid.

That explains why I never saw it.

Before we wrap up, and because I know we both love it, do you have the updated TESD breakdown?

@TESDGroupie: As said before, the more the merrier, and after the Audible book, boy, I would love callbacks 🙂

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Hope it looks okay, but of course, here it is.
2015 is being pretty good.

Next up, we’ve got SpiderScooby talking Pre-MCU films!

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ThatScoobyDoom: Just to kick off the conversation, going back to the time before the MCU, to those very dark days, what did you think of the Marvel movies as a whole?

SpiderScooby: As a whole?
They certainly varied in quality, with the best being Spider-man 1&2 and X2.
But then you had stuff like Ang Lee’s Hulk, Punisher War Zone, Blade Trinity, the 70’s Captain America, etc.

ThatScoobyDoom: Let’s keep it to the 90’s and forward, we don’t have nearly enough time to cover the shit storm that is 70’s Cap or Lundgren’s Punisher.

Really?
You’d lump Trinity in with the worst?
I dug that?

Speaking of Blade, best place to start I guess, where do you fall on that franchise of movies?
I personally think those movies (especially the first) don’t get nearly enough credit for what they did for comicbook movies.

SpiderScooby: Fair enough.

Yeah, I rewatched it recently, and it’s a huge step down from the first two.
I think the biggest problems were the script and putting more focus on Ryan Reynolds and his “team”.

I was never a Blade fan, but the first two are not bad.
Blade 2 was good mainly because of Guillermo Del Toro.

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ThatScoobyDoom: I’ve seen it recently too, I wouldn’t put it anywhere near as bad as Ang Lee’s Hulk!
Though I do agree with what you said, Reynolds and Co did get too much spotlight and it had Patton Oswald.
But it has more pluses than minuses.
Jessica Biel, Triple H, and that original Vampire dude was good.

I’ve never read a Blade comic, but those movies and the TV show were great!
Made me want to read the comics…but I never got to them.

SpiderScooby: I actually didn’t mind Hulk at the time, though my views have certainly changed on it.

It’seems like they were trying to spin off Renyolds into his own movie.

I barely remember the TV show (only saw the pilot).
I remember his appearance on the 90’s Spider-man show more than anything else.

ThatScoobyDoom: I read the Junior Novel when it came out, it was okay.
It took me many years to watch it start to finish…I regret every moment of it.
It was up there with The Wrong Side Of Town as one of the worst, completely unredeemable movies I’ve ever seen.

Story of that dudes life, am I right? Lol

I watched most of the eps when they aired, haven’t seen them since, I loved it.
It was pretty brutal as I recall and that worked for me.

That 90’s Spidey toon stuff was brilliant, all of it, Blade, Morbius, Cap, Hydro-Man, Goblin, every episode was great!

SpiderScooby: Very odd they released kids books for that movie, because it really didn’t feel like something for kixs.

He seems to have a habit of getting screwed with Marvel franchises.
First Blade Trinity, then X-men Origins.
At least he’s finally doing Deadpool.

Agreed!
Love that series.

ThatScoobyDoom: I don’t think they were sure what the movie was supposed to be, it has moments of strange lightness then moments of extreme forced darkness.
A goddamn anomaly!

Has he had better luck with DC?
Before GL opened there was heavy sequel talk…it opened…and that went away…fast!!!

I’d think that since Disney owns Marvel now that it would get a full proper DVD release.

Back to Blade, I think it gets the short end of the stick.
Everybody credits X-Men with taking the Comic Book genre serious for the first time, but I think it was Blade.
Would you agree?

SpiderScooby: I liked what they were going with it with the whole psychological angle, but they overdid it.

I think that not only hurt the chances of another GL movie, but it also hurt his career.

Well, they finally put it back up for streaming, so who knows.

The thing is, unless you were a hardcore comic fan, you probably didn’t know it was based on a comic book.
Plus you had a much more limited audience with its R rating.
So while Blade certainly helped, I think X-men did more to revitalize the genre.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, they over did it and his directions and the editing choices were fuckin’ dumb.

Totally, not even sure what he’s done since.

Hope springs eternal.

I don’t know that I agree.
It was limited by the rating of course, but they made it clear it was a comic movie.
X-Men popped huge, but Blade laid all the groundwork.

SpiderScooby: And the choice to make it look like a comic with the multiple panels on screen was a mistake.

But you wouldn’t know on the surface.
I figure they wouldn’the to promote it as such since it came out so soon after Batman & Robin.

ThatScoobyDoom: Very much so.
That was probably the thing I hated most.

I guess.
B&R was a nerdboner killed, but Blade kept trying like hell to get it hard again.
I think it was great foreplay X-Men and Spider-Man.

SpiderScooby: Did you like Eric Bana?

Those two were just bigger.
Blade wasn’t a instant hit when it came out.
It only got popular on home vid3o.

ThatScoobyDoom: Not really, mostly for the same reasons I don’t like Ruffles.

Didn’t it pick up steam quickly after that?

SpiderScooby: I thought he was okay, no one in that movie really stood out.

I’mean not sure, but I know it was after it’s video release.

ThatScoobyDoom: Oh yes they did, the dude that played the evil corporate douche stood out!
He sucked in that movie, I’ve seen him in other shit and he was fine.
But he was down right horrible here.

I thought Sam Elliot was a great Thunderbolt Ross too.

Did you think Snipes did a good job as Blade?

SpiderScooby: Well sure, Sam Elliot is great.

Yes, I think so.
I don’the know how faithful his performance is to the comics, but I think he pulled it off.

ThatScoobyDoom: Agreed on both.

So finally X-Men happens, what did you think as it was getting closer?
For me, it had HUGE shoes to fill.

SpiderScooby: I didn’the actually see it until X2 came out.
I wasn’t really an X-men fan growing up so I wasn’t interested in seeing it when it came out.

ThatScoobyDoom: I watched the hell out of the 90’s X-Men animated series.
Those movies had a huge mountain to climb in my book, a mountain they never really made it to the top of, for me, until First Class.
Those 1st 3 have alot of boring bullshit in them.

SpiderScooby: I remember X-men TAS, but I don’t think I watched it that mcuh.

I disagree.
I find the first two highly entertaining.
X2 was my favorite of the franchise up until last year.
They were able to bring these characters to life without making it feel silly.

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ThatScoobyDoom: That and Spider-Man are my referance for the Marvel characters the same way B:TAS & S:TAS are for the DC characters.

I loved the first one, warts and all, for what it was.
2 was busier than Iron Man 2, had alot of yawn moments that I just didn’t really give a rats ass about.
3 was the defintion of mixed bag.
It was fun, stupid, boring, cheesy, great, lame, slow, fast, confusing, and had a bloodlust worse than Wolvie in a full berserker rage.
But I will say this, this franchise has an AMAZING cast.

SpiderScooby: Agreed.. Tbeh really couldn’t have picked anyone better than Hugh Jackman.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, and didn’t he say recently he wants to keep going for quite a few more years?

Can you imagine how goofy he’d look with everybody towering over him?
It works on the page…not so much on screen.

SpiderScooby: Yeah, and he still looks good too.

ThatScoobyDoom: Indeed.
He looks more like Logan now than he did in 2000.

And speaking of him as Logan, what do you think about his first solo movie?

SpiderScooby: Complete shit.
Bad writing.
Bad CGI.
Plot holes that contradict previous films.
Not to mention the complete waste of characters(Deadpool and Gambit).

ThatScoobyDoom: Couldn’t agree more, such a waste of time, money, and skills.
It had every damn reason to be great but ended up shitting the bed at ever freakin’ turn.
Seemed mostly rushed.
It’s sad really.

SpiderScooby: And I feel like we didn’t need an Wolverine origin story anyway because tne otber X-films heavily focused on Wolverine anyways.

The Wolverine, while not a great movie, thankfully was a lot better.

Next, we have our penultimate guest, to talk Scooby specials and the upcoming KISS movie, @ScoobyAddict!

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ThatScoobyDoom: Lets talk about these recent Spooky Tales specials, I’ve seen the 1st 2.
Have you seen any or all of them?

@ScoobyAddict: I have seen Spooky Games and Haunted Holidays.
I don’t remember much from Spooky Games, it’s been a while since I’ve seen it.
I do remember them being chased by a giant gladiator.
Haunted Holidays stuck to the original series, but had a more modern feel.
Shaggy and Scooby looking at their reflection in the ice and making faces at themselves, then the villain shows up behind them reminded me of classic Scooby.
The flow of this episode was very much like SDWAY, and of course Velma lost her glasses.
There was a scene with Scooby riding on a toy car, which I believe was also a scene from early SD.

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ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah yeah, I just watched Spooky Games the other day.
I think it struggles a bit because they want to say Olympics so bad but can’t for legal reasons and it’s unintentially funny.
I was only able to see Haunted Holidays on Youtube, but I dug that one too.
Being caught in a snow storm is creepy and really fit.

YES!!!
Velma losing her glasses was something I wanted to bring up last time actually when we were talking about SD:MI!
That was one of the 2 things that SD:MI was missing, the other being the hallway gag.
I love me a good hallway gag!

I seem to recall that toy car bit being in the New Movies opening.

@ScoobyAddict: Velma losing her glasses and the hallway scenes were definitely missing from SD:MI.
That was always funny to me when she lost her glasses.

Yes, I believe you are correct…Scooby on the car is from The New Movies intro.
I knew I remembered it, but couldn’t think of which intro it was in!

ThatScoobyDoom: I thought it was kind of an interesting twist and a cool piece of development when Shaggy started carrying a spare pair of glasses for her.

I’ve got the Globetrotters DVD here, I should give it a spin and be sure.

Back to the specials, have you gotten the compilation sets that they’ve released them on or have you held off in hopes that some day they’ll release them all together?

@ScoobyAddict: Shaggy didn’t carry spare glasses very often, but it was a nice change to him having food in his pockets.

I didn’t buy the compilation sets.
I don’t want to keep buying the same episodes on different DVD sets over and over again.
I would love to see them release all the specials as a DVD set.
When I say all the specials, I mean Spooky Games, Haunted Holidays, Bravo Dooby-Doo, Those Meddling Kids, The Scooby-Doo Project, and so on…

ThatScoobyDoom: I’m right there with you!
I hate compliations and I hate the 4 episode volumes.
And yes they need to release all of these specials, old and new, in one set.
That’s about the only compilation set I could see myself wanting to buy anytime in the near future.

I especially love this animation style we’ve had these last few years, from Abra forward.
Where do you stand on it?

@ScoobyAddict: I do like the animation style in the recent movies.
I like that they stay close to the original SDWAY character style…Fred has his ascot, Daphne in her typical purple dress and the green scarf.
Even if they don’t wear that trough the entire movie, at least they started off in the classic style.

ThatScoobyDoom: Since Abra, I’ve seen quite a few folks complaining because they mimick some of the things H&B has to do to make the show cheap (Fred, Daphne, & Shaggy having flesh colored eyes etc.), where do you stand on that?

@ScoobyAddict: I don’t mind the flesh colored eyes. I like that they stick to the classic drawing.
At least the characters look like themselves and the animation isn’t way off like Get A Clue was.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’m with ya, I think this is perfect.
I like to imagine if they did an animated movie on the big screen they’d use these designs, I think they’d look amazing if done super high quality.

I wanna ask you about a rumor, I’ve seen a few folks speculating that Mindy may not be voicing Velma in Be Cool.
They’ve given absolutely no reason for thinking she was done, but I wanted to know if you’ve heard that or seen anything to suggest that she is?

@ScoobyAddict: Jon Colton Barry, one of the writers for Be Cool, Scooby-Doo, stated on my forum: “All the voice actors have confirmed that they will be playing their usual roles except for Mindy.” I don’t know if she is not going to voice Velma for the series or if she just hasn’t confirmed it yet.
I hope she does voice Velma.
I think she does a good job!

You can read his post here: http://scoobyaddicts.proboards.com/index.cgi? action=gotopost&board=593& thread=2908&post=33927

ThatScoobyDoom: So that’s where it came from!!!

I like her too, she gives Velma spunk. She’s sarcastic and dry.
I really dig the way they write Velma for her.
Much like I said in our last talk about Fred, gives her more of a personality than “generic smart girl”.
Of course they went too far in season 1 of SD:MI.

If she doesn’t come back, who’s out there right now that could replace her?

@ScoobyAddict: Mindy does give Velma some spunk.
She adds a lot to her character.

Maybe Linda Cardellini?
I liked her live action Velma.
I wouldn’t even really know who else could do it.
I had said Mae Whitman could possibly pull off playing Velma live action, but I don’t know how she would do with the voice.

ThatScoobyDoom: I didn’t even think of Linda!!!
She seemed happy to voice Hot Dog Water, which was like a bizzaro version of Velma…and we know she’s comfortable behind the mic.
I’d take her in a heart beat.

Do you think she and, specifically, Matt realized 14-15 years ago when they signed on to that movie that they’d have roles that could last the rest of their lives if they wanted them?

@ScoobyAddict: I don’t think Linda and Matt really thought Scooby would be a long term thing.
I think they put their heart into their performances in the live action movies and they did great portraying Velma and Shaggy.
I like that they have continued to work on Scooby.
They are, by far, my favorite live actors from the Scooby movies.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’m just glad that WB is utilizing them, would be a shame to let such great performances be limited to just 2 movies.

But I still hope Mindy sticks around for a while.

Something else I wanted to ask you about was CG in the 2-D animation, specifically creatures and vehicles.
Do you think it works well with the 2-D?

@ScoobyAddict: Yes, I am happy to see WB has continued to give them roles.
I would like to see Mindy continue as Velma, but if she chooses not to, Linda would be great too!

The CG never really bothered me.
I think it works ok.
I know other people find it to be distracting, but I think it works.

ThatScoobyDoom: Agreed.

I think it should be kept to vehicles.
Look at the Cicada episode of SD:MI, IMO, that critter looked like crap up against the 2-D.
The CG kinda wavered over it, showed the limitations of the TV animation budget.

@ScoobyAddict: Every time I watch the cicada episode, the thought of having all those bugs on me creeps me out.
I agree the cicada creature didn’t look great, but I’m not sure they could have gotten the same effect with 2-D.
I guess I’d have to see it to know!

ThatScoobyDoom: I know, I hate those damn bugs…and all bugs and insects really.
I think they could have, it just would have been more complicated and time consuming.

The last thing I wanted to talk about with you this time, and this is another reason why I love Mindy (it’s because of Mindy we even know about the movie), was the upcoming KISS movie that we only mentioned last time.
Are you at all excited about that?

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@ScoobyAddict: I am kind of two-fold on this one!
I am excited because I used to be a KISS fan when I was in high school.
I saw them live once when they did the tour with half the show in make-up and the other half without make-up.
I met Sebastian Bach from Skid Row at that show.
I used to love Sebastian and Skid Row until I met him and realized he was a huge ass!
Anyway, I follow Gene Simmons on Twitter and sometimes I feel like he is a pompous ass.
He’s very high on himself, but he’s great at marketing, so we see KISS stuff everywhere.
I might choose a different band to be in a Scooby movie.
Not that I am complaining really, I think a Scooby/KISS movie could be done well.

ThatScoobyDoom: I totally understand, and you wouldn’t be the first to say that for damn sure.
I think I cut him (Gene), and people like him, a little slack because he came from nothing and now sits atop this vast empire.
I think you get that way because along the way you have hundreds of people telling you that you suck and that you’ll never make it.
So, when you finally do make it it’s a bit of a “fuck you” to all the folks that tried to hold you back.
It is shitty, but it happens.

He is indeed a marketing/networking genius and an ultimate opportunist, he knows how to get folks aware of stuff.
The Scooby projects are an extenstion of that, this will be their second time crossing over with Scooby.
It branches them out to a new generation.

We know next to nothing about this project, but do you have any expectations?
I know I’d love them to cover the WAY and WNS-D themes!

@ScoobyAddict: I can understand he came from nothing and now he has built an empire, but he could still be humble and remember where he came from.

I don’t really have any expectations, I just hope his arrogance doesn’t shine through in the movie.
It would be great for them to cover one if the themes or create their own.

ThatScoobyDoom: I agree, but I understand the mentality behind his attitude.

Agree here too.
Much like was said in an earlier segment of this Typecast about Mallrats 2, this KISS movie has vast amounts of potential.
And at least we know it’ll have some pretty kickass music.

@ScoobyAddict: I can understand his attitude, I just don’t condone it.
I think the best way to get back at people who tell you it’s impossible is to do it and remain humble.

The music will definitely be good!

ThatScoobyDoom: So we’ve gotten a trailer, cast & story details, and the official title for Scooby-Doo & KISS: Rock And Roll Mystery, did that excite you anymore for it?

There will be 6 classic songs and 1 original, care to guess the 6?

@ScoobyAddict: I m a little more excited about it because I know it’s real now and not just gossip.
I used to like KISS in high school a lot, but I haven’t listened to them in years.
I might have chosen a different band, but I can see how KISS would be a good choice for a Scooby movie, especially with the makeup.
I know Gene Simmons has a great marketing sense and he will be very picky about the movie and how they are portrayed.
I’m hoping that will translate to a good movie!

My guess on the songs…Seven Days A Week, Pretty Mary Sunlight, Daydreamin’, Love the World, Tell Me, Tell Me…not sure which one the 6th one would be.
Maybe Recipe for My Love?

ThatScoobyDoom: The Sonic Boom album was damn good, you should check that out.
Has a nice classic feel.
Indeed he is.

I think they meant classic KISS songs, but that would be cool if they covered those!

Did any of the casting announcements excite you?
I think they annouced Pauly Perette from NCIS, right?
I know I’m pumped for Kevin Smith and Jay Mewes!

@ScoobyAddict: Oh, I don’t know why I was thinking classic Scooby songs!!
Duh!!
Rock n Roll All Nite, Detroit Rock City…KISS has an album called Unmasked, they should use songs from that!!

In addition to Gene Simmons, Paul Stanley, Eric Singer, and Tommy Thayer, the voice cast will include Kevin Smith, Jason Mewes, Darius Rucker, Garry Marshall, Penny Marshall, Jennifer Carpenter and Pauley Perrette.
I am super excited about Pauley Perrette.
I love NCIS!!!
Kevin Smith and Jason Mewes are kewl!
I’m getting more excited about the movie!!

ThatScoobyDoom: I can’t recall that album off the top of my head, but I’ve never been good with songs and albums like that. Lol

I know Pauley is a big fan of KISS and AC/DC, so that’s not surprising to me that she’s in there.
I was rather stunned by Kev and Mewes though, but after the Plants Vs Zombies and Lego Batman 3 stuff I guess I shouldn’t have been.
I’d heard Kev say last year that he’d met with Gene a few times for a few projects, has me wondering if this was one of those meetings.

@ScoobyAddict: I think Gene Simmons could probably get anyone he wanted to star in this Scooby movie.
He’s got a lot of power in the celebrity world! LOL

ThatScoobyDoom: Damn right, that is as connected as an old timey switchboard.

With as much attention as this one will get, do you think we’ll get a new bonus feature?
I’d love a commentary!
Those character commentaries on Legend Of The Vampire and Monster Of Mexico were great, but I’d love a real commentary.

@ScoobyAddict: I hope we get some good bonus features!!
Maybe a bit of a making of kind of thing or bloopers!
Something that will stand out!

And finally, to talk about the 2nd Episode VII trailer and more, here’s @Fitzman73!!!

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ThatScoobyDoom: Lets just get right down too it, what did you think of the new Ep VII trailer and what do you think of the new planet and it’s name?
I know in previous conversations we both were betting it was just a Into Darkness/Khan like swerve and it was Tattooine.

@Fitzman73: The new trailer is beautiful.
There’s no other word to describe it.
And the scary thing is, it’s still only a teaser.
I’m afraid my brain will explode when we finally get the full theatrical trailer.

Mark Hamill’s voiceover gave me legit chills.
And I really was genuinely surprised at how many things were revealed, especially things that until now had been “rumors” like the melted Vader helmet.

As for that new planet, it’s fine I guess, but until I see it confirmed on screen in the theater, I will continue to think it’s a swerve.
Although at this point, what would be the point?

ThatScoobyDoom: Beautiful indeed.
That was strange to me, sure we’re still 8 months from release, but this was a minute and 20 seconds of actual new footage!
Not quick flashes of stills, not quick flashes of slightly moving images, long shots that reveal big info, at what point do they go from teaser to theatrical?

That melted helmet is very interesting.
As much as I don’t think flashbacks fit the Theatrical Star Wars style, that could be confirmation of a return of Vader via flashback.
Also, at this point, I think I could listen to Mark Hamill describe my own death before he set it in motion.

What was the point of the Khan swerve (even though everybody knew he was bullshittin’), even up until the release of Into Darkness?
And why go through the trouble of coming up with such a strange new name?
Just so after release they can mock us for falling for it?
I think JJ’s credibility was hurt enough with the Khan thing, I’d hope he wouldn’t pull the same shit twice and expect folks not to get a bit pissy with him.

@Fitzman73: I wouldn’t say I’ll be pissy with him about it, but it does seem like a dumb game to play if he is in fact playing a game.
And if he’s not I just don’t get the point of creating a whole new planet that’s essentially just Tatooine.

Something that just occured to me though, what if it is the truth and a swerve at the same time?
What if it IS Tatooine but for some in universe reason we aren’t privy to yet it was renamed?

I don’t really buy for a second that Vader will appear alive in the suit via flashback.
I think the melted helmet is as much as we’ll be getting and whether that shot was part of a flashback or not remains to be seen.

What I do know is I got a full on nerd boner seeing that crashed Star Destroyer.
So fucking awesome to see a graveyard of fallen ships that were part of a battle over that planet.

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Did you notice that Luke appears to no longer have a fleshy bionic hand and instead has mechanical one that looks more like Anakin’s at the end of Ep2?
I thought that was kind of an odd choice.

And it does appear to be true that Luke’s old lightsaber figures into the story somehow as we’re shown Daisy Ridley handing it to Leia.

Also I was really surprised to see that it looks like Kylo Ren is actually part of the Empire remnants, which we know after Celebration are going by the name “The First Order”.
For some reason I thought he would be a lone wolf not someone that would be commanding stormtroopers.

One thing we can put to rest is that it’s Mark Hamill under the Kylo Ren mask because that dude is way too tall and slender to be Hamill.
Although it’s still unclear to me whether it’s Adam Driver or Domhnall Gleeson under there.
They’ve both been conspicuously absent from both teasers.

ThatScoobyDoom: Creating new planets, that’s something that’s in the theme of another question I want to ask you if we’ve got time.
I’m interested to hear your take.

THAT HADN’T OCCURED TOO ME!!!
That’s interesting and actually very well possible given that Tatooine is just a back water dirt planet that really has no bearing on the Republic, the Empire, or this new breed of Imperials.
It doesn’t appear to have any real resources to tap, no special indigenous flora or fuana that we know of, it’s just a hot dust bowl in the ass crack of the galaxy.
You may be onto something, that is a theory worth remembering.

I’d prefer not to have any flashbacks at all, but those are the most persistant of the rumors it seems.

That opening shot tracking, what looks like a landspeeder, and unveiling the gigantic downed ship as if it’s become a part of the planet, almost a mountain, was breathtaking!
Then seeing a TIE chase the Falcon through the remains of a ship on top of it?
I couldn’t stand up either man!

I did notice that.
That whole shot was pretty revealing to me.
Seems almost to confirm that rumor of Luke’s solitude.
Not having the Synth-flesh is sort of odd since that hand doesn’t look like the hand he got at the end of Empire.
Maybe he’s gotten an upgrade in the 30 years?
But it seems weird that they’d give him an upgrade to a hand that (by the time of just after Jedi) 25-30 year old tech, right?

Which I find it strange that I haven’t seen too many folks mentioning that that is Leia receiving the hilt.
Everybody has been so excited by Han and Chewie, which I think might be in part because Chewie was dead in the EU.

That shot in the first teaser of him running through the snowy woods kind of makes it seem as though Ren is a man apart, so I understand why you thought that.
Now that Celebration gave us a close up of him, tell me what you think of him, cause I think we’re on the same wavelength about his look.

I was unaware of the Ren/Hamill rumor, not sure I would have bought into it, though I thought that’s who you thought that was back when he first teaser hit.
I think Driver has an interesting look, a real face of character, would be weird to cover him up even though he seems tall and thin enough.
I’d be more inclined to say it’s Gleeson under the mask.
Still conspicuously absent also is Andy Serkis though.

@Fitzman73: Yeah but Serkis is playing a CG character so it’s not as surprising to me that they’d keep that under wraps as long as possible.

Rumors that I’ve heard actually put Gleeson as an Imperial officer, but if it was that simple, seems strange that there’s no shot of him in the teaser so it could be a massive head fake getting everyone to think Adam Driver will be under that mask only to find out nope it’s someone else.

I think the vehicle in that opening shot is Rey on her popsicle speeder that we saw in the first teaser.
If you look real close it looked to me like the same shape.

I would’ve expected Luke to probably have a new hand, it is 30 years later, but to have it not covered in skin was shocking to me.

Yeah one of those early rumors was that Luke would be revealed to be the “cyborg villain” from that old concept art.
But I think it’s pretty clear that they moved from “cyborg” to “dude in a mask” and there’s no way Hamill’s body type matches what we’ve seen so far.

I think Kylo Ren looks badass and we talked about it before, the design of that helmet lools like a cross between Plo Koon and Darth Revan.

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ThatScoobyDoom: Not even a hint though?
I feel sorrt for the dude, I understand he’s great at mocap but if he’s great at that imagine how great he’d be as himself…but then again, he is himself in Avengers, ain’t he?

I would much rather they accentuated Driver’s features and slap some make-up on him.
I’m wondering if Gleeson is gonna be the son of an OT character, he comes from a decent acting legacy so it wouldn’t be hard to imagine him as the son of a legend.

I have a 3 inch screen, not alot of detail is popping out for me.

If he’s gone recluse the upgrade would be older, unless he fashioned it himself.
And again, if he’s gone koo koo ka choo recluse, the coverings may have rotted off, been damaged and ripped off.
The covering isn’t as interesting as the hand itself too me.

Do you think he could be the same species as Plo?

@Fitzman73: I think from what I’ve heard through the rumor mill is that Gleeson is the offspring of an OT character and his allegiances are a little fuzzy, like is he really for the Empire or just a spy?
So that to me puts his entire purpose in this film into question and opens up (to me) the possibility that the real surprise is the bad guy ends up being him.
My money is still firmly on Driver as Kylo Ren, BUT, I don’t count out the possibility of all the early speculation of him being the bad guy turning out to be a head fake.

Andy Serkis was in Avengers?
Oh you mean the new one?

I would seriously doubt that he ends up being the same species as Plo Koon.
The mask resembles his face shape and breath mask a little but I think that’s just a design coincidence or inspiration.

What do you think of the new names for the Empire and Rebel factions?
The First Order and The Resistance?
Again, seems like an unnecessary change but I guess it will make sense within the context of in universe history

ThatScoobyDoom: I hadn’t heard all of that, adds a new wrinkle.
Trying to think of whose kid he could be, not got a clue really.

Aye, Age Of Ultron.
Very secretive who he’s playing!

Have we seen many of Plo’s race?

With no context, The First Order sounds stupid too me.
Unless it’s something like The Lost Tribe Of The Sith and it’s a previously unheard of sect of the Sith that rises up to take Sidious and Vader’s place.
The Resistance is fine, Rebellion?
Resistance?
Same fuckin’ thing.
No big deal too me.

What to you think of the new Imperial logo?

@Fitzman73: We haven’t seen any of Plo’s race other than him as far as I can recall.
If you google around you can find EU renderings of what they look like sans breathing mask.
Not pretty.
They’re one of those races that can really only survive well in their natural eco system so it’s not too surprising that they’ve never shown us other examples.
Probably don’t see them unless you go to their planet specifically.

That new Imperial logo is ok.
It looks more like a flower to me though.
Too many points on it.

What do you think of the new trooper designs?
We didn’t see the snow or flame troopers in this trailer, but they showed off the costumes at Celebration.
Do they look too “slick” for you?
That’s almost the case for me.
They’re so sleek that they almost look fruity.

ThatScoobyDoom: Not even trying to be funny, I saw a pic of one maskless and it’s mouth looked like a gaping asshole.
I guess the Jedi fashioned that make for Koon when they took him from his parents?

I think it looks kinda cool, but it is very busy.

I haven’t seen the new designs, but my first thought about that silver Trooper with the cape was that they were trying to force a new Boba Fett.
It seemed like they were trying too hard with that one.
But in the case of them being sleek, I’d think some Imperial designs would be.
The Empire has been ruling for 55-60 years by this point, they gotta work some kinks out in all that time.

@Fitzman73: Yeah, it’s only natural that the designs would get more refined as time went along but they almost look like they should have the Apple logo on the back of their helmets.

Yeah I’m not sure what the point of the so called “Chrome Trooper” is.
I’ve heard that it’s basically an elite soldier that’s in charge of tracking down Finn, and SPOILERS, under the helmet is supposedly Gwendolyn Christie.
Although wouldn’t that be a kick in the nuts if she ended up being Kylo Ren?
Everyone assumes it’s a dude but might not be at all.
I don’t think she’s very busty so it wouldn’t necessarily be a big trick to make her look like a flat chested man in those robes.
Come to think of it, something about the way Ren is trudging through the snow in the first teaser reminds me a bit of how she walks sometimes when in armor on Game of Thrones….hmmm….but sane money is still on Adam Driver

But I digress.
Chrome Trooper.
I hadn’t thought of it as a new Boba Fett type character, but I can kinda see that.
Still not sure why it’s necessary, but again, I’m sure it will make sense in the story.

Ok.
So we’ve mentioned Luke.
We mentioned Leia.
Are we ready to talk about the big reveal at the end where we actually get to see one (two?) of the old dogs’ faces?

ThatScoobyDoom: Hahaha, new from Apple, ITroopers!

So it’s supposed to be like an old Clone Commando type from the old EU.
I have no clue who Christie is and I’ve never seen GoT.
I’ve never considered it could be a chick under the Ren mask, the movements seem masculine, threatening, not that women can’t be threatening, but chicks tend to be more graceful in their movements.

That shot with the cape swinging, massive gun, in slomo, looks like it’s trying to be an entrance for a new major pimp character.
My mind jumped to Fett immediately.

That was where I was heading!
Too me, that might well be the most revealing parts of the whole trailer.
“Chewie…we’re home” Han and Chewie have lost the Falcon sometime in the last 30 years!
What do you think about that?

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@Fitzman73: Yeah kind of a Commando.
I’m not sure if it’s one of a kind or part of a larger group.
Oh if you saw her you wouldn’t forget.
She’s a 6’3 model/actress and she can definitely play tough badass.
They try their best early on to make her very brutish and manly and it works even though you see her out of character and it’s like that can’t be the same person can it?

Actually, I was trying to figure out what he meant by the “we’re home” line, because I knew that supposedly Han and Chewie were not going to have the Falcon in the movie but what I had heard as speculation was that it had been handed down to his kid.
But if that part isn’t true and they haven’t seen her in decades then that line makes total sense.

I like that they didn’t go the cliche route and give Chewie any gray hair.
People who know their shit would know that 30 years is nothing to a Wookiee, I think Chewie was still only a young adult in A New Hope and he was already 200 years old.
So 30 years ain’t shit.
But I could see them doing gray hair just emphasize “hey time has passed right audience???”.
Glad JJ was smart about it.

ThatScoobyDoom: So she’s basically the new Lucy Lawless?
Cool.

That’s how it plays to me, they’ve been away from that boat for quite some time.

I have to disagree with you, slightly.
I think had they gone overboard and gave him a mane of Gray it would look ridiculous, but just a little streak under his bottom lip or between his eyes would show that time has past.
Just a little 2 inch tuft of gray hair, that’s it.
I’m 24 now, even I have a couple of grays.
So if Chewie looks the same after 50 years (remember, he was with Yoda during the battle of Kashyyk) it seems strange.
Just something to make him look slightly different, just a tich older, to show a passage of time, makes alot of sense to me.

So, how much did this trailer up your excitement?
We see new TIEs, more Falcon, a few downed ships, X-Wings again, the old guard, and motherfuckin’ R2 D2!!!

@Fitzman73: I’ve heard that they did supposedly add some lighter, not fully gray, hair to the suit to show a little bit of aging, but I sure couldn’t tell just from that clip.
Definitely some gray highlights would’ve been ok with me, I would just oppose going overboard and having him look like grandpa Chewie from the Holiday Special.

This trailer sent my excitement through the fucking roof.
Chalk it up to being unspoiled and unprepared for this one as opposed to the first or say it’s because the OT characters were in it finally, either way I could not have been more jacked after watching this thing.

ThatScoobyDoom: From that clip or the Force For Change clip, I really can’t tell any difference.
From the OT to III to now, I can’t tell a difference.
Even with the old continuity saying Wookiees live for hundreds of years, that long of a time should show some change.

For the most part, I’d put it on the OT characters showing up.
Which is what got me pumped too.

So moving along, we have a title, release date, and some story details for the first spin-off/stand-alone/anthology film.
Rogue One is indeed about the stealing of the Death Star plans, what do make of all of that?

@Fitzman73: So far I’m not sure what to make of it.

The “Anthology” brand is a pretty smart move.
Everyone knew these would be outside of the numbered episodes, but giving them their own umbrella to be collected under is pretty cool.

I’ve said several times where I think the story of the Death Star plans being stolen should be told, but alas, Disney is apparently ignoring my brilliance.

It’s not necessarily a story that I feel needs to be told, so having it be the series finale of an episodic tv show like Rebels whose entire concept is tailor made so that it can pay off in a grand event like that makes total sense to me as opposed to a 2 hour movie with characters we’re presumably going to meet for the first time.

I have faith that the film will be enjoyable and well made, I just feel like that particular story would be better served on Rebels.

ThatScoobyDoom: Anthology makes me think there will be multiple stories per film, which I don’t think is what they intend to imply.
This is semantics, of course, but Spin-Off worked better for me.
They are spinning out of ideas from the Saga films.

Rebels does make sense, you’ve been beating that drum since it premiered and I agree with you.
And who knows, maybe Rebels will feature the characters that’ll be in the film stealing the plans.
Maybe that’s where we’ll get the introduction, then that’ll be the first time we see a character cross from small to big screen.

Do you find it weird at all that, even though it’s a vast Galaxy with many characters and stories to tell, they keep focusing on that period right before A New Hope?
The novels are covering it well, Rebels is doing that for a half hour weekly, now Rogue One is filling that “void” too.

They say it’s gonna be a ground level war movie, what do you make of that?wn

@Fitzman73: How is it going to be a ground level war movie about stealing the Death Star plans?
That does not compute at all.
Is it going to be The Dirty Dozen or Guns of the Navarrone situation or what?
I assumed it was going to be more Mission Impossible.

You’re right, there’s nothing so far to say that the main characters of the movie might include live action Rebels characters.

I don’t necessarily find it odd to be focusing on the just prior to episode 4 time period, until Ep 7 comes out that’s really the only OT time period they can do much with (in addition to in between OT films that is) and not possibly run into episode 7 spoiler territory.
If you start looking at post RotJ then you’re going to have to at some point explain why the Empire is still around, what happened to the heroes after Endor, etc.
Which I imagine they’d rather not reveal until episode 7 drops.
In fact I think they already have a post RotJ novel set to come out but not until much closer to ep7’s release I belive if not after.
They’re not even dropping the ep 7 novelization until after the film is released.

ThatScoobyDoom: Well look, they had the plans as far back as Episode II, 5 years between II and III.
How many places did they have those plans?
Maybe they’re in the war and the newly forming rebellion stumbles across an old Separatist base with a copy of the plans, one of the Separatist leaders had a back up that they didn’t retrieve before heading to Mustafar.

At this point, I think they really want to do that.
I just have a feeling that this story group is pushing for a Toon character to turn Live.
I think they may have teased or hinted at it.

Don’t get me wrong, this isn’t me asking “why not the PT era” again, I understand they aren’t interested in that.
This is me saying “so much just before and just after at the same time, comics, novels, TV Shows. What about after Empire?” Seems like that year or so after Empire might have some interesting Luke, Leia, and Chewie stories as they accept this dude that just fucked them over, got Han frozen, and carted off by Fett.
It just seems like overkill (Zuuuuuuuune) to keep ringing that bell, like by covering it so much at the same time their gonna make it easier to have continuity troubles.

Yeah, Aftermath, set just after Jedi. Sounds like it’ll be good.

@Fitzman73: Between Empire and Jedi?
They did that.
Once. Lol.
Shadows of the Empire.
Not a bad story, but given the MASSIVE marketing and tie in effort that they had for it, it’s a bit underwhelming.
I can’t imagine it hold up real great 15 years later.

Keep in mind though, I think it was a year tops between Empire and Jedi so not a lot of time to play with there.
2 or 3 years between New Hope and Empire though.
So maybe we’ll see more stuff after that, like the new Marvel series.
That picks up right after Yavin.

ThatScoobyDoom: But again, nothing there now.
Fill all the gaps, spread the stories around, I know they will eventually!
But shit, only filling like 2 gaps now.
Like I’ve said a few times in the past, with the EU purge the timeline desperately needs depth and to keep banging the same drums seems like reactionary fanservice to me.
I believe I’ve said this a few times too, this isn’t me speaking as a jilted PT era fan, it’s more of a Pre-PT fan thing.
It’s clear from Menace that this Galaxy has history, show it!
Give us some goddamn Qui-Gon, we know we have plenty of Han, Luke, Leia, and Chewie stories coming.
Maybe after TFA we’ll get that.

Now the next thing I wanna ask you about, which we can end on if you want, is about the tech and what not.
Ignore all the previous EU stories, the histories, the characters, trash ’em all.
And also, let’s just say Jakku for the sake of arguement is indeed a new planet, how do you feel about them resolving old problems of the EU?
Meaning creating new species, new vehicles, new weapons, new planets, when the EU had all these things laid out.
Do you think it’s a wise choice to spend time thinking of a new desert planet when there are 2 or 3 already that they could repurpose or just revisit and show us a new side of?

@Fitzman73: I don’t know, I still think that even though the old EU has been relegated to Legends status that they are and will be mining certain elements of it.
Even if there aren’t direct adaptations or obvious inclusions, there have been and will continue to be at the very least subtle nods and designs inspired by the EU.

I mean we already talked about the look of Kylo Ren, it couldn’t be more EU inspired.
It’s straight out of the old KOTOR games.

I think at the end of the day these movies are being made by artists.
Artists create shit.
For better or for worse they’re not really interested in telling other people’s stories.
Hell, forget the EU, George Lucas is on record saying JJ shitcanned his episode 7,8,9 story treatments and went in a completely different direction and he CREATED THE WHOLE FUCKING THING!
So if they’re not even interested in using the Maker himself’s stories then there’s no way they’re interested in looking to the EU for material.

ThatScoobyDoom: That is the best possible answer you could have given, and I understand it.
But at the same time it’s like, these motherfuckers were under the gun from the jump!
Hell, this time last year we found out there was a writer shake-up for godsake!
With that much turmoil, it seems ill advised to start from zero and try and make up shit from scratch that fits into what everybody has in mind as being Star Wars when you can just repurpose old shit.
It’s a way that they could have their cake and eat it too.
“Look, here’s all this old shtuff that you guys know and love.
Now it’s not exactly how you remember it, but we made it fit and we hope you’ll give it a chance” type of thing.
Shit, even George did exactly that, look at the name Coruscant.

And ignoring George’s vision is something that still rubs me the wrong way.
I’m not an apologist, because that would imply sorrow or regret, I have neither.
I know I’ve said this alot in our conversations, but I’m gonna say it again goddamn it.
That dude gets far too much disrespect and it’s fuckin’ sad and pathetic.

@Fitzman73: Yeah when I heard him say he has no idea what the the new movies are about because they dropped his story treatments entirely I was like whoah that’s fucked up.
And that writer shakeup was all part of that.
The original guy Michael Arndt was George’s boy, he basically pushed for him and got him.
So what I’ve heard is that JJ Abrams never liked him, wanted his own writer and so basically booted him and I guess whatever script he’d been working on and brought on his own guy to bring HIS vision to life.

All I know is that it better be fucking awesome after all this intrigue.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, which brings me back to the topic I brought up, seems unwise, at least on Ep VII, to waste time starting from scratch when the EU has a wealth of this shit set up and waiting to be repurposed.
And I realize I’ve overused repurposed, but I feel it’s logical to think they would repurpose it to fill the current need.
I’ve accepted that the EU stories aren’t canon, but to clean the slate of all the extra shit that was created just to puff out your chest and say you created it seems like not the bed idea when under a time crunch.
Hope I’m explaining my thoughts on this well enough.

I can see adapting his ideas, but shelving them feels wrong.
He knows this shit better than anybody, to ignore that is really strange.

I have faith, just look at Rebels.

@Fitzman73: Right.
And other than it being helmed by Dave Filoni it really has no input from George, yet it feels like it does.
In my opinion Filoni is the closest thing we have now to GL in terms of understanding how all these pieces fit together, how the Star Wars universe works and why things are the way they are.
He’s the closest thing to a protege that GL ever had.
I fully expect him to one day be in charge of Lucasfilm.

ThatScoobyDoom: Agreed, and I hope for that, but I have a very real fear that, given as hard as he’s been working on the Saga for the last 10 years, he may come face to face with burnout.
As anybody in any job knows it’s hard to do the same thing for a long period and not get burnt the hell out.

I’d be interested to learn exactly when TCW shuttered and Rebels started.

@Fitzman73: I don’t think there was much time between the two.
A matter of months maybe.

ThatScoobyDoom: Given the way TCW has ended, leaving so many unfinished episodes, it might even be less time than that.

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Pictures provided by @Jcynda, @TESDGroupie, SpiderScooby, & @Fitzman73.

I can’t thank @TESDGroupie, SpiderScooby, @ScoobyAddict, & @Fitzman73 enough for taking the time to have these conversations with me.
Means alot that they’ve all done so many of these with me, I can’t express how much I appreciate it.
Thanks guys!
I can’t say it enough, Thank You.

Show your thanks by checking out and visiting all of their links below.

If you want more of the great @TESDGroupie follow her twitter: http://twitter.com/TESDGroupie
and instagram: http://instagram.com/TESDGroupie

If you wanna see more from SpiderScooby, visit his sites ScoobyFan.Net & RossStuartMedia.Com and follow him on the TWITTERS http://twitter.com/scoobyfandotnet & http://twitter.com/spiderscooby

Check out all of @ScoobyAddict‘s links.
Website: http://www.scoobyaddicts.com/
Forum: http://www.scoobyaddicts.proboards.com/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ScoobyAddict
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Scoobyaddictscom
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/Sc00byAddicts

And finally, follow @Fitzman73 on his personal twitter http://twitter.com/fitzman73 and the twitter for his podcast Just Jump To The End, that he does with his sister @Tacky1Z, http://twitter.com/jj2end

Share this post on twitter with the hashtag #Typecast.

And finally, there are enough dickheads roaming the world so don’t be one of those.

Thanks for reading!

Typecast #7: A Hero Returns

WHAT’S UP PEOPLE?!?!?
Damn, I launched on your asses, but for good reason cause this is a good one.
Back is the man without whom none of this exists, dude what we’ve had round these parts before, SpiderScooby returns…and so do other heroes!

This time we talked about The Avengers…alot!…Agent Carter, and a homecoming that nobody expected so soon.

His parts of the conversation appear with his name, SpiderScooby, in red and link to his Scooby site, ScoobyFan.net.
As usual, this conversation appears just as it was had, all spelling fuck-ups intact, just to maintain the honesty of it all.

Take it away me!

ThatScoobyDoom: Last time there was 1 movie we left out, The Avengers.
For me, and I know this is going out on a limb, this is the best film of Phase 1.

I’m gonna guess you liked it too?

SpiderScooby: How about best superhero movie ever made?

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ThatScoobyDoom: Pretty much.
I don’t know about you, but for me that was the movie of a lifetime.

SpiderScooby: Yeah, despite some small issues here and there, it really deserves all the praise it gets.

ThatScoobyDoom: Issues such as…?

Just seeing those characters on screen at once was mind blowning.

SpiderScooby: Hawkeye for one.
Generic invading aliens for second.

It’s amazing they pulled it off too.
This could had easily ended up being Iron Man and His Amazing Friends.
But I think they made the right call hiring Joss Whedon, someone who knows how to work with such a big cast.

ThatScoobyDoom: I don’t think Hawkeye was bad or anything just under utilized.

Yeah, there was really no preamble there just “ah, the aliens are here cause Loki brought ’em”.

Totally, dude deftly spun dem plates.
Brought his energy, experiance, and humor to it in perfect quantities.

SpiderScooby: He wasn’t bad, but he definitely got the short end of the stick here.

Yeah, you could really throw them in any alien invasion movie and you’d get the same result.

He also gave us the best version of Hulk on screen.
I know you’re not a fan of Ruffalo, do you agree?

ThatScoobyDoom: He did, but not in a way that brings things down.
He just had no development.
You can see they tried with the Black Widow backstory but it was pretty much too little too late at that point.

That for me is the only down side, I didn’t like his Hulk or Bruce Banner at all.
For one, the way he kept saying “the other guy” just sounded stupid and childish.
Almost as bad as “red in my ledger”, both are annoying phrases that grind my gears everytime I hear them.
For two, I hated how apelike he was.
I always saw Hulk, in away, as a monster of confidence and making him kinda drag his knuckles was a switch in body language that just read as weakness to me.

Better than Bana but far worse than Norton in my book.

SpiderScooby: I feel like he was completely useless.

I disagree.
Hulk is my favorite thing out of the entire movie.
Better than Norton, even better than Bixby.
This is the defenitive version of Hulk on screen.
My favorite moment of the movie is Ruffalo’s “That’s my secret, Cap.
I’m always angry.” line.
And then he changes into The Hulk and smashes the alien ship.
I loved how Ruffalo and RDJ play off each other.
As for Hulk himself, I didn’t mind that he was ape like.
I felt they found a good balance between the savage and intelligent Hulks.
The CGI for Hulk is also top notchn
The CGI doesn’t hold up in either Hulk movie.
He looks fantastic in Avengers.

image

ThatScoobyDoom: He was basically there to try to force emotion in Act 3.
He could be cool I bet, they just need to try harder in Age Of Ultron.

While I did like that line and the CGI was good (I think TIH’s CG is damn good, BTW) I just do not buy Ruffles as a meek scientist.
The dichotomy of Banner and Hulk, the thing that makes it all work is that Banner is physically weak, Mark Ruffalo looks far to imposing to even attempt to pull that off.
At times he even came off slightly wooden.
I have nothing against him as an actor, but he just doesn’t fit the part.
Norton did.
Norton is a small dude and that works.
The whole relationship between him and RDJ only came off so well because RDJ did all the heavy lifting.
I mean, come on, he had 2 movies to charm us and win us over before Avengers.

SpiderScooby: I get what you’re saying, but I don’t mind him being imposing(that scene with him and Black Widow in the beginning really works for me).
I think he does the scientist thing well.
But it’s more of a nerdy kinda scientist than meek.

ThatScoobyDoom: That scene with Widow was good…but that was the first indication I had that I wasn’t going to like his Banner.

And that’s why it fails, he’s meek for a reason.
He does whatever he possibly can to avoid triggers unless he runs across an injustice ie that chick getting hassled in TIH.

SpiderScooby: Wouldn’t you say he had enough control to where he wouldn’t be set off by such triggers?

ThatScoobyDoom: Not really, he kinda lost it when Loki attacked the Helicarrier.
Remember how he was struggling to stay in control before he roared at Widow?
He even mentions it being a bad idea when he first gets on the Helicarrier.

SpiderScooby: Yeah, but there’s a big difference between pointy things and big explosion.
Remember the “I’m always angry” scene I mentioned eariler?
He clearly is able to change at will.
ThatScoobyDoom: My point is he’s in control, but now 100%.
Shit can still go down and catch him off guard and send him into a rage, as shown in the scene on the Helicarrier.

What did you think of his antagonistic relationship with THOR?

SpiderScooby: Yeah, kinda my point.
He has control until something like that comes along that causes him to lose control.
Of course I gotta think some of that was Loki contoling him.

It made for some good comedic moments(Hulk punching Thor).

ThatScoobyDoom: That it did, and the fight they had on the Helicarrier was great.
I especially liked Hulk attempting to lift the hammer and (obviously) failing.

Who was the stand out character in Avengers for you?

SpiderScooby: I think my favorite moment was Hulk punching Thor.

You mean other than Hulk(because he was truely the stand out character to me)?
I love how the movie follows the POV of Captain America.
It really feels like a sequel to The First Avenger.

ThatScoobyDoom: It was a great moment, and that whole shot leading up to it was awesome too.

Cap did use the spotlight well, it felt like a third Iron Man 3, a third Cap 2, and a third for everybody else.

Was it just me or did Tony end up with alot more screen time than they lead us to believe he would get?

SpiderScooby: Out of all the characters, Iron Man is the most popular, so no surprise there.
Which is funny, because it doesn’t feel like Iron Man 3 to me.
That was one of my worries going in.
That this would be Iron Man & Friends.
Thankfully it doesn’t come off like that despite all his screen time.

ThatScoobyDoom: Well, at times it felt like they were a bit afraid to get away from him for too long just because he is so popular.
I would’ve liked more THOR, a character I’ve really grown to like the more I think about it.

SpiderScooby: I think they found a good balance between most of the characters.
I, too, really liked Thor.
Especially his relationship to Coulson.

ThatScoobyDoom: I do too.
I don’t mean to sound like I’m saying they didn’t, I think it just felt like they were relying on Cap and Tony just incase it didn’t work…or maybe to ensure it did work.
But with Joss Whedon at the helm, shouldn’t have been a fear.

I wanna get to Coulson in just a minute, but I’m drawing a blank.
Did he and Thor have much interaction?

SpiderScooby: They have a few moments together, yeah.
Right before Loki reveals his plans.

ThatScoobyDoom I really don’t remember that.

Were there any characters from the previous films that you wish they would’ve used?
For me, I wanted to see Rhodey. I know they did a prequel comic that explained why Rhodey wasn’t there, but they didn’t even really reference him.
Plus, with all that shit going down, you’d think it’d be all hands on deck.

SpiderScooby: Rhodey would’ve been nice, but he is in Age of Ultron so there’s that.

ThatScoobyDoom: Indeed.

Was there anybody that was missing for you?

SpiderScooby: Rhodey was the big one.
The movie is crowded enough already, I don’t know if we needed anymore characters.
Even Pepper disappears for most of the movie.

ThatScoobyDoom: Well, at least a mention.
Rhodey didn’t get a mention (that I can recall at least), Betty didn’t get a mention, at least Jane did.

So, Coulson, what did you think of his overall arc through the movie?

SpiderScooby: I really liked Coulson in the movie and his interactions with the team{him being a Captain America fanboy was great}.
I do feel like Agents of Shield has cheapened his death a little bit, but I’m willing to forgive that.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, him not really being fazed by Thor but getting kinda giddy about Cap (that creepy line about being there when he woke up comes to mind) was good.

I don’t feel it cheapened it really, I see it as correcting a mistake.
Whedon likes to fuck with his fans and their favorite characters (RIP Wash, RIP Shepard Book) so it didn’t bother me.
Plus, it’s been a good ride seeing how he came back.

Were you shocked by his death?

SpiderScooby: Like I said, it doesn’t really bother me, but I would’ve liked it if he stayed dead.
I do wonder if he’s ever gonna interact with the team again.
Because up to this point, they don’t know he’s still alive.

The first time, yes. I was really trying to avoid spoilers with that movie.
So it was a complete surprise.

ThatScoobyDoom: I was gonna ask you that, a few things about that.
1. Even though S.H.I.E.L.D. is underground at the moment, don’t you think he would or should contact his best asset?
Which might be the Age Of Ultron tie-in, who knows?
2. How pissed do you think Tony will be?
I’m sure Fury will have tried keeping an eye on the team, you can’t just drop all that on a dime.

Agreed, I didn’t see the movie until almost a year later and it was still a shock to see.
What’d you think of Fury manipulating the team with the cards?

SpiderScooby: I think because of the whole Hydra thing, he wants to stay as underground as possible.
Contecting one of the Avengers could possibly jeopardize their cover.
2. I’m sure Cap will have a few words to say, lol.

It was a good motivator.
As Fury said, they need the push.

ThatScoobyDoom: I totally understand that, but when the threat is big enough he will hafta pull out the big guns.
He literally did it with Loki.

You think Cap will be the one to watch in the reunion?
Tony actually knew the dude.

image

I guess he had to stoop that low, but seems kinda dirty.
I’m with Hill on that.

SpiderScooby: That was before he was presumed dead.

I think they both will give Fury the beatdwon.

ThatScoobyDoom: Okay, we can come back to this in a minute.

The big news broke a day or 2 ago.
A certain Amazingly Friendly Neighborhood Wallcrawler is headed to the MCU!
Thoughts?

SpiderScooby: I am off the wall excited.
Spider-man in the MCU is someting I’ve wanted for a long time but didn’t think it would ever happen.
There are a couple things about the deal that give me pause{Sony having final creative control}, but I’m super excited.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’m 100% with you brother.

I saw the Tweet from Marvel the second it went up and clicked the link to Marvel.com and the site was down.
The wording was kinda funky to in the tweet so I was trying to not get my hopes up but as soon as the site loaded…I had goosebumps like I did watching the Episode VII trailer.
Just complete and total excitement!

What are you most pumped to see from it?

SpiderScooby: I almost didn’t see it.
I was about to go to bed, but I figured ” Oh, I’ll check ComingSoon.Net real quick and..Spidey joining the MCU…wait, what?”.

Having him in Cival War.
Now I don’t think he’ll have as big of role as he did in the comics.
But it’s nice to see they’ll be able to tell that story with him in it.

ThatScoobyDoom: It was almost 20 minutes before they got it, I was surprised it took so long.

That is up there for me too!
With him being involved it that I hope we see my favorite Spidey suit (besides the classic), I would need a change of undies if they use the Iron Spidey suit!

Are you worried like everybody else seems to be that we’ll get his origin again?

SpiderScooby: I think I saw it a couple hours after it was posted.

No, I don’t think they’re gonna do the origin again.
I think the ideal route would do it in the opening credits like TIH.

ThatScoobyDoom: Exactly, folks seem to forget how smart Marvel is.
Hell, didn’t they say Doctor Strange was going to be established?
If any character needs a damn origin movie surely it’s Doctor Strange, no???

What do you think of the Miles Vs Peter argument that’s begun already?

SpiderScooby: They mention Doctor Strange by name in Winter Solider so clearly he’s on Shield’s radar.

It’s not gonna be Miles.
They specfically mention Peter in the press release.
I have zero problems with Miles Morales.
But I think they should hold off on him for now.
This is Marvel’s flagship character coming into one of the biggest movie franchises of all time, it needs to be the main Spider-man.
Introduce Peter.
Then in Phase 4, you can introduce Miles if you want.

ThatScoobyDoom: Of course, but I mean from the filmmaking standpoint, you ask a random fan of the MCU with no comic knowledge about Doc Strange and they’ll have no clue about him.

We’ve had this conversation privately almost as many times as we’ve discussed Nolan’s Bat movies (I say shitty, you say good) but lets have it here for these good folks.
I agree, but not about Miles in phase 4.
To me, Spider-Man is Peter Parker, Peter Parker is Spider-Man.
Full stop!
Miles, Miguel, All these other none Pete Spider-Men in Spider-Verse, not a single one is Spider-Man.
So to use anybody but Pete is not doing Spider-Man.
What do you say about that?

SpiderScooby: This is true.
I think the bigger question is what happens to Black Panther in Cival War.
Because he was supposed to have a big role in that.
Will audainces care as much if Spidey’s in there?

Frankly while I prefer Peter Parker, I don’t care who is Spider-man.
If you have a well written and engaging character, I could care less who is wearing the mask.
I have not read any issues with Miles Morales, but he is a very well regarded character from what I have seen.
I see that as no different as Wally West replacing Barry Allien or vice versa.
As for Spidey 2099, I see him more like Batman Beyond than anything else.

ThatScoobyDoom: I think he’ll still get some shine, because if he was supposed to have a big role it was to expand the MCU to a new country/culture/hero.
Doubtful that they’ll pass up that chance just because they get to add in a hero that everybody knows.

The go to, especially these days, is that I don’t like Miles as Spidey because he’s black/hispanic.
But the fact of the matter is Dick Grayson isn’t Batman, Bucky Barnes and The Falcon aren’t Captian America, (this one has a better reason than “I don’t like it”) Beta Ray Bill and this New Chick aren’t THOR, some characters are just too iconic to screw with.
It would be like making Scooby a *note* the rest of my message was chopped off and I can’t remember what it was. *end note*

SpiderScooby: Yeah, but it sounded like he was gonna fulfill the role that Spider-man played in the comics.

Lady Thor and Falcon Cap are gimmicks though that probably won’t have any lasting impact.
Miles doesn’t feel like that{maybe at first, but not anymore}.

ThatScoobyDoom: By unmasking?
That seems rather stupid given nobody knows who he is.

I don’t know if Lady THOR is a gimmick, she’ll be around for quite sometime I think.
Falcon will probably drop the Shield though.
Even from the beginning I don’t think I would have called Miles a gimmick.
Maybe calling him Spider-Man is a gimmick, but just as a character, no.
I think he should’ve been given another name, Spider-Boy, Spider-Lad, Tarantula (I don’t think that name is taken in the Ulti-verse), or anything Spider-themed would be fine by me.

SpiderScooby: Not necessarily having him unmasked, but having him there as a big presence.

All deoends on what happens after this Secret Wars thing.
I don’t mind him being called Spider-man.
If Ultimate Peter was still Spider-man, I might agree.
But right now, he is Spider-man in that universe.
No need to call him something else.

One solution I mentioned over on my blog is to do a Miles Morales tv series.
Keep Peter Parker on the big screen and Miles Morales on the small screen.
This way, you can have the best of both worlds without having to pick either one.

ThatScoobyDoom: Gotcha, I’m sure he’ll still get some spotlight before his solo movie comes out.

Well, it seems pretty much like Miles is in the 616.
But after Secret Wars, which is supposed to collapse everything together, then what?
You can’t have 2 Spider-Man’s swinging around.
Peter or Miles, one of them has to give up the title.
Miles is gonna have to drop it.

Eeeeeeee, I don’t know if I like that idea either.
Plus, an idiot studio exec would say that that would cheapen the name value by having him on TV and Film.
But even if you go with that, how do you solve the name issue?
They’re trying to make everything one single story, so it can’t be an alt-universe show.
And besides, it kinda pisses me off that we’ve never gotten a good Spider-Man live-action series.
He’s a character that would really fit it.

I was wondering, do you think they’ll tease Spidey in an after credits scene on Age Of Ultron?

SpiderScooby: I hope so.
I would hate for him to be pushed to the side just for Spider-man.

But you already have two Spider-men running around{not counting Spider-Verse here}: Amazing and 2099.
So it’s not impossible to have two different Spider-men in the same universe.
Sure, they should probably call him someting else if they bring him into the 616 universe, but I don’t care either way.

I don’t know.
I feel like Marvel is much more lenient about using their characters on TV.
It doesn’t need to be an alternate universe show.
It would be best to wait till Phase 4 to do something like this.
But it can work while having Parker exist in the same universe.
As for the name, they can just call it “Miles Morales: Ultimate Spider-man” or something like that.

That’s what I’m hoping.
If you’re gonna do a Spidey after credits scene, Ultron makes the most sense.
I can imagine a post-credit scene like this: Tony is talking to someone off screen.
We pull back and we see the Spider symbol.
Fade to black.

ThatScoobyDoom: Is 2099 actually in the present day 616?
Because that falls under the same catagory of stupid as having Miles in the 616 and calling him Spidey in my eyes.

When I say the name issue, I mean calling him Spider-Man period.
Again, a stupid studio exec would say something like “it will create confusion in the marketplace” you’ve gotta remember man, we went through this same shit with Smallville.
They said that Batman being on would create confusion in the marketplace.
They tried saying that same shit around the time that Superman Returns came out.
Then you’ll have the folks who havr never read a comic book in their lives and only watch the Movies and TV shows (who, lets be honest, they make all of this shit for because it’s a bigger audience than comic book readers) wonder who the hell Miles Morales is because they’ve watched 5 Spider-Man movies and never heard the name.
That’s one of those things that makes me wonder if recasting any of the major MCU roles would work, folks have gotten used to all of these people in these roles if suddenly you change actors they may think “hey, Chris Hemsworth is THOR who the hell is this guy?” it’s slightly different but it’s the same thing in principal.

That would work, puts Spidey in the MCU and gives the change to cast him without a rush too.

SpiderScooby: It’s not stupid at all, because it’s not like 2099 is getting in the way of Amazing
{and 2099 is a better book than ASM right now}.

If this was DC we’re talking about, I would agree.
But I would hope Marvel would realize that the general audiance is not that stupid.
See, introducing him on TV would be a way of introducing him to that wider audiance.
Have him on TV first, then bring him into a movie later.

As for recasting, just look how many times they have recast James Bond.

ThatScoobyDoom: We’ll just have to come to the conclusion that I’m stubborn and bullheaded on that front.
As for 2099 being the better book, as much as I hate 2099, I don’t doubt that.

Never EVER doubt the stupidity of a Studio or TV exec, I don’t care which studio or what the track record is.
Remember, and this was admittedly pre-Disney, they had problems with Norton because he (alledgedly) wanted to have a few more character/story moments than just all
***BOOM***
***SMASH***
***ROAR***
in HULK and any of the potential sequels.

That has been a big part of Bond though, and just because it’s worked for Bond doesn’t mean it’s great for every franchise.
I don’t want an Indiana Jones recasting just because Bond did it.
Ford wants to do another movie so let the old bastard do another movie and get off his fuckin’ lawn!

SpiderScooby: I like 2099 as a concept so admittidly I’m biased.

Yeah, but a lot of the problems directors/actors have had with Marvel is that they try to mandate certain things to keep to their vision if that makes sense.

We haven’t really seen someting like that outside of Bond though.
There has nver really been a recasting in a big franchise and have it still be in the same continuity.
The one exception being Brandon Routh in Superman Returns, and he was the best thing about that movie.

ThatScoobyDoom: I like Peter David but, with the exception of the afore mentioned Batman Beyond, I’m not into the whole techno future bullshit thing.

They gave Norton alot of control on the first HULK, if memory serves.

What about Batman?
With the same Alfred and same basic Batmobile, wasn’t that the same continuity?
Routh was great and got landed with a fucked up script.

SpiderScooby: Batman Beyond is definitely better, I’ll say that.

He did, but in the end he didn’t have the creative control he wanted which is why he left.
I know a lot of stuff got cut.
Wasn’t there a cut of the movie that was like 3 hours long or something?

Yeah, but we’re not gonna count those two if you get my meaning. “wink”

ThatScoobyDoom: Beyond is definetly better!

I’m not sure…but I’d like to see that if true.
See, I understand Marvel has a vision for where their Universe is headed, but to stifle these great creative minds is a misstep in my eyes.
That’s why Edgar Wright left Ant-Man…which reminds me…hey internet.
You guys know that Ant-Man can work without Edgar, right?
I love Shaun Of The Dead, but the dude isn’t the end all be all of film makers.
Give the fuckin’ movie a chance!

*throws hands up* And why the hell aren’t we.
*mumbled* Your no fun!

Now lets get back to Avengers, we covered Coulson, who do you want to talk about now?

SpiderScooby: Oh, I agree.
While the Ant-man trailer did absolutely nothing for me, I’m still going to give it the benifit of the doubt.
And let’s not forget people were poo-pooing Gurardians of the Galaxy, and it was the biiggest movie of last year.

What can I say?
I don’t consider bat-ass to be canon.

I can’t remember if I mentioned this or not, but I wish the aliens weren’t so generic.
I mean, I can go with it because that last half is just so epic.
But the villians just so forgettable.

ThatScoobyDoom: It wasn’t a great trailer by any stretch of the imagination but it peaked my interest.
Very true, folks said a talking Tree and Raccoon in space would never work, so why can’t a tiny hero?

Define canon?
It’s pretty clearly the same continuity as the Keaton Bat flicks, those movies just got progressively weirder.

I don’t think you did, but I 100% agree.
Those aliens were just canon fodder.
The whole entire focus was on Loki and his taking control to become King of the world, they were basicly an after thought.

SpiderScooby: And it was only a teaser.
So future trailers could change my mind.

I know this isn’t a Batman typecast but it’s like they said “Batman Returns was too dark so let’s make them more like the old tv show”.
I enjoy Batman Forever but B&R just took things too far.

If Loki wasn’t there, this movie would be a whole lot weaker.

ThatScoobyDoom: Totally, like the Star Wars teaser.
Folks were bitching because it only had quick flashes of shit…I’m like “are you retarded? Do you not understand what TEASER means???” folks just like to bitch, can’t stop it, brother.

I think that’s exactly what happened, because there was a GROSS overreaction from Returns to Forever.
As for this being a Bat Typecast, did you not read the 2nd Typecast?
That was supposed to be about Star Wars and we went off on a tangent about Metallica. Lol

Without question it would be weaker, folks grew to love Loki so they kinda put all of their time and energy into making him the star.
They always say a hero is only as good as his villain, and this proves it.
By focusing on him it made you believe that this motley crew might not win…you knew they would!
But there was a sliver of doubt.

SpiderScooby: I like a trailer that doesn’t give the whole movie away.
I thought the Ep7 teaser was just fine.

In that case, can I just say that Forever is highly underrated?
It’s a entertaining movie, even if the performaces were over the top.

It helps when you’ve cast such a charming guy.
I just hope they don’t end up overusing him in future movies.

ThatScoobyDoom: Me too, like A Million Ways To Die In The West, Christopher Lloyd being in it as Doc Brown was supposed to be a surprise, but the trailers ruined it.
Seth posted something snarky about it on twitter too.
I hate that.

I used to like it, but I’ve kind of grown to hate it.
I like the first on that Burton did, but after that they just completely went off the rails.

True.
Was he a main focus of THOR 2?

SpiderScooby: Kinda like the Amazing Spider-man 2 trailers that spoiled the ending, And I don’t just mean the death of Gwen.
I mean the FINAL SHOT OF THE MOVIE!

image

I’ve never been a huge fan of Burton’s movies anyway, so I never minded it.

He had a pretty big role.
And going off the events of that movie, he’ll have one in Thor 3 as well.

ThatScoobyDoom: Which was…?

I like the first one, still the second best Bat movie IMO.

And what happened that makes you say that?
Just so folks know, that last MCU movie I saw was Iron Man 3 and I only saw it once in the theater.
So phase 2 is all new and unseen to me.

SpiderScooby: That shot of Spidey and Rhino coming at each other, about to fight?
That’s the final shot of the movie.

I’ll take Batman Begins, B:TAS, and Batman 66 any day of the week.

So Loki fakes his own death and is posing as Odin at the end of the movie.

ThatScoobyDoom: Not really a big spoiler though, is it?

I’ll take Begins and B:TAS, you can burn 66.

I think you told me that.
My question is what the ham and eggs happens to Odin?

Have we covered Avengers, or was there more you had to say about it?

image

SpiderScooby: No, but it’s still pretty lame if you spoil the end of your movie.

Them fightin’ words, man!
Them fightin’ words!

Ah, but we don’t know.
We gotta wait till Ragnarok to find out.

Where to next?
Tony Stark 3 Iron Man 3?

ThatScoobyDoom: I guess.

Bring it on.
*grabs pom poms*

Well shit, was there any indication as to what happened to Odin?
Any point in the movie where you could conceive of Odin getting replaced?

Uuuuuuuh my memory of that is so fuzzy, if you don’t mind, I’d rather go to Agent Carter.
The Season finale is this coming Tuesday after all.
*note* And I missed the fuckin’ thing too! GGGGRRRRRRRRR!!! *end note*

image

SpiderScooby: Only the one scene of Loki disguised as a guard walking up to Loki.

Okay, sure.
Agent Carter.
Fun show.
It’s nice revisiting that Captain America time period again.

ThatScoobyDoom: It’s nice to see Peggy getting the spotlight too, she was definetly one of my favorite First Avengers characters.
Now you know where this is going since we’ve had this conversation privately, but uh…did YOU happen to have any problems with the first few episodes?
<__>

SpiderScooby: You mean the whole men being sexist thing?
Didn’t bother me so much, but I do see where you’re coming from.

ThatScoobyDoom: This may be long, apologies all around.

It normally wouldn’t bother me either, but it’s so one sided, and how woman are forced to be portrayed these days is totally unfair to themselves and to reality in general.

If you portray woman today as a flatout villain you see articles and assholes pop out of the wood work acting as if no woman ever has treated anybody like shit.
Bullshit.
If a man can be a villain so can a woman.
So to have the double standard of woman can only be portrayed as smart, wonderful, well thought out characters but men can be portrayed how every is bullshit.

I know for a fact that woman were treated like shit back then, it’s well documented that they, like children, were supposed to be seen and not heard, but this penultimate episode had a beat that drives my point home.

***SPOILER ALERT***

.
..

….
…..

Okay, they spent the first few episodes having every man but the crippled dude, Howard, and Jarvis do everything but pat her on her ass and ask for a fuggin’ sangwidge.
Her boss was a piece of shit…but the penultimate episode has him throw himself out a window just to save everybody.
Now I don’t know about you, but after how he acted my very first reaction was “good, he was a piece of shit anyway.” and they were trying to give him a heroes send off.
Didn’t work.
Fuck that guy.

I hate that the PC Pussification of the 21st century has lead me to think like this about shit.
That people can’t just sit down and what a fake fuckin’ TV show or a movie, shut up, and enjoy it.

It’s as stupid as Marvel breaking up Spider-Man and MJ’s marriage because it was unrelatable.
I don’t watch and read superheroes to relate, I engage in it because I want to see some cool shit happen.
Not be preached to about some political stance.

End rant.

SpiderScooby: Well…I certainly haven’t been taking it that hard, lol.
I haven’t seen the most recent episode, so I can’t comment on that.
But whatshisface had a pretty nice redeeming moment a couple episodes back.

It does get grating after awhile though.

ThatScoobyDoom: Like I said, I notice this shit now because you always have these assholes whining about this shit from the other side.

Like, you hear these dumb assholes saying only women should write female characters.
If that’s the case then only men should write men characters.
And if I’m not mistaken a woman wrote Guardians Of The Galaxy…a movie about a mostly male cast. Hmm, if we’re going to play by those rules we need to burn every copy of Guardians (a movie I haven’t seen and desperately want to) because a woman wrote it.
It’s a completely fucking ludicrous notion perpetrated by attention seeking morons with far to much free time to think up and spew this brainless nonsense.

Which whatshisface?
We’re like J.K. Simmons in Extract at this point. “Tell Dinkus I want to talk to him.” Lol

SpiderScooby: I tend to ignore people like that.

“Ms. Brant, get me a violin.”

ThatScoobyDoom: You can’t miss it on twitter, man.

Wrong movie!!!

Despite how it sounds, I love this show.
I love Hayley Atwell, I love Peggy Carter, I love Hayley Atwell as Peggy Carter.
One thing that legit bugs me is I wish they would have cast this dude as Jarvis for Iron Man.
I think it would have been a great piece of symmetry and a nice nod from Tony to this man, that I’m sure will end up being a big part of his life, to use his voice for his digi-Butler.

SpiderScooby: That’s why I block them!

Sorry, can’t help quoting J. Jonah.

As the voice of Jarvis you mean?

ThatScoobyDoom: I get tired of blocking everybody, best to take a break. Lol

Yeah, and that’s not me slamming Paul Bettany.
He does a great job as Jarvis, I just think it would have been a cool way to tie it all together.

What did you think about Howard Stark’s arc?

SpiderScooby: That’s one of my problems with the show.
Because the SSR should’ve stopped looking into Stark by the end of the series.

ThatScoobyDoom: Did you watch this weeks episode yet?
I don’t want to spoil it any more than I already did for you.

SpiderScooby: Oh no, I haven’t gotten the chance to yet.

ThatScoobyDoom: Say no more.

Just really quick, you’ve seen the Agent Carter One-Shot, how does this series compare to it?

SpiderScooby: They actually used shots from the one-shot in the pilot.
But techincally, it suppose to take place after the series.

ThatScoobyDoom: Really?
I know nothing of that short, can you give me a break down of it?

Given what you’ve seen of the series, would you want to see it come back next year?
Because I sure would.

SpiderScooby: She overhears the men talking about a mission, and she decides to take on said mission herself.
She kicks some ass.
That’s about the extent of it.

Sure.
Or if they want to do something entirely different, I’d be okay with that too.

ThatScoobyDoom: And it’s set after this?
After she kind of spends 8 episodes trying to prove that she can handle a mission?

I’d dig it just because I like the character.
I’d love to see her running around in the early days of the Marvel U kicking off shit that pays (or will eventually) of in the movies or on Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D.

Is there anything else you want to say about this or anything else we talked about, man?

SpiderScooby: Yeah, I believe that’s what they said in interviews.
But if you really wanted, you could probably just ignore the One-Shot.

How would you like it if they picked it up for a full season?

No, but can’t wait to talk some Phase 2/Agents of SHIELD with you{even though you haven’t seen most of the films}.
We got Age of Ultron coming out and that’s gonna be amazing.

ThatScoobyDoom: Well, based on what you’ve told me, it seems they may have some slight continuity problems.

Hmm, that’s a tough question to answer.
I’d obviously love that because I have a mega crush on Atwell and I do like that character…but keeping it down to so few episodes makes it easier to concentrate and make the episodes better, ensuring a higher quality.
So if they do pick it up for another season my hope is that they don’t go 16-24 eps, but instead for 10-13.

How about the next time we talk MCU, we go indepth and you walk me through Phase 2, we talk Agents Of S.H.I.E.L.D., and we cover the One-Shots, sound good?

SpiderScooby: 13 episodes would be ideal.
How would you feel if each season took place decade by decade?

ThatScoobyDoom: That’s a cool idea, would really lead to more universe building than just sticking to the 40’s, but I think jumping ahead so much could well be a little jarring.
Maybe if they jumped say 5 years each season it would be better.
Because think about it, in the last 20 years we’ve had amazing developments to contend with that are hard to keep up with, imagine how it was back then for them to deal with huge leaps forward.

SpiderScooby: I don’t know, it worked for X-men: Days of Future Past.
But yeah, five years would probably be better.

ThatScoobyDoom: Which I haven’t seen…

But look, we already know that Howard tried introducing a flying car, and after season 1 of AoS, and succeeded, imagine all of the other techno stuff that could have happened!

SpiderScooby: Oh yeah, that reminds me.
I guess you could say the One-Shot takes place after the series because Howard calls Peggy about forming SHIELD.

ThatScoobyDoom: Why do you think it took so long for them to call it SHIELD?
Cause remember Coulson said in Iron Man “we’re working on the name”.

SpiderScooby: Good question.
I think if Marvel could change one thing, they would change that.
Cause at the time of Iron Man, it wasn’t certain if the MCU was gonna work.

ThatScoobyDoom: You’re probably right, the phone call may have been an attempt to retcon.

Listen man, thanks for coming back to do another one of these.
Was alot of fun, sir.

SpiderScooby: Can’t wait till next time.

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If you want more of SpiderScooby, visit his site ScoobyFan.Net or follow him on twitter @ScoobyFanDotNet!
If you want more of Ross (I just unmasked SpiderScooby, here come the supervillains!!!) visit his site RossStuartMedia.Com and follow him on the TWITTERS @RossStuartMedia!

Thanks for reading and remember, the world sucks enough so don’t add to it by being a dick.

Typecast #5: Four Color Fitz

The Fitz and I done did it again, but we decided to take a break from the Prequel talk and read the first Six issues of the original MARVEL Star Wars comic.

image

We used the Dark Horse Star Wars: A Long Time Ago…. Volume 1 Omnibus, just incase you have it and want to try to follow along.

As always, @Fitzman73‘s side of the conversation will appear with his name in red and link to his podcast Just Jump To The End, available at http://JJ2End.com.

This conversation appears just as it was had, spelling fuck ups and everything, just to maintain the honesty of it all.

ThatScoobyDoom: As you’ve said previously you read this issue when it first came out in Treasury back in the day.
My first question to you has to be, 37 (nooch) and a half years after this issue first came out, does it still hold up to what is was for you way back then when you first cracked it open?

@Fitzman73: Oof.
I just read it again for the first time in a couple years and man, it’s rough.

You can really tell that Roy Thomas and Howard Chaykin had no fucking idea what this movie was about.
I think they were working while production was underway and nobody had actually seen the film yet, so Howard Chaykin’s art is a pretty poor representation of what ended up on the screen.

I heard an interview with him a few years ago and he was a real hate tank so I have no problem ripping his work on this book apart.
You can tell they probably just had a draft of the shooting script and had maybe been shown a few reference photos.
The way the characters are drawn you can tell they weren’t studying (especially the visuals) very closely.
They’re good enough to pass but a lot of the detail is really glossed over.

Roy Thomas did a pretty good job adapting the script I guees, but it’s so compressed to fit into a few comic books that some things that took several minutes of screen time happen in a single panel.
The pacing is off.

What I found most interesting though was that this movie is so ingrained in me that as I’m reading the dialog I hear it exactly as it is said in the film.
So it’s especially strange when the dialog in the comic doesn’t exactly match the lines from the movie.

Does it hold up?
Not really, but some of the images are just as burned into my brain as the real movie.
Like Luke’s rifle getting smashed by the gaffi stick.

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Luke's Rifle Being Smashed By A Tusken Raider

Is this the first time you’ve actually read it?

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, this first issue is…strange…to say the least.

You can tell this was done with an early draft of the script because it still has the scenes with Biggs before he leaves.
Reading those was interesting because, while I have read about them, I’m not sure I’ve ever watched them.
Is Biggs’ last name really Darklighter?
That sounds about as heroic as Starkiller or whatever Luke’s original name was.
The different descriptions of shit was throwing me off a bit too.

It seems like an awfully timid adaptaion of something that grew to be as huge as it is today.

As for the art, yeah…it’s pretty bland and forgettable.
It sometimes evokes what ended up on screen and other times it’s like I hafta flip to the cover and make sure I’m still reading a Star Wars comic.
Though I did like the tease of Obi-Wan in the last page or 2.

It’ll be interesting to to see as we get deeper into these if it gets closer to to the screen.
This first issue dropped in July, 2 months after Ep IV came out, so I’d hope that by the time issue six came out they’d seen the movie and maybe changed the way they did things.

Yes, this is indeed the first time I’ve read it.
It’s alot to take in if I’m honest, and that’s just one issue.

Rough estimate, how many times you think you’ve read this?

@Fitzman73: How many times? Less than 10 for sure.
But if we’re counting just looking at the art and stuff then who knows, a million?
I used to thumb through these all the time.
But to actually “read” them, probably not that many.

His name is Darklighter for realz.
And his two friends in the shop were really named Camie and Fixer.
They never actually even completed shooting that interior stuff, but if you look on youtube I think some really rough and I mean ROUGH dailies of that scene have surfaced recently.
Black and white and no sound even if I remember right.

The outside stuff with Biggs was filmed but it was never really fully completed either I don’t think.
I think wasn’t it included as a deleted scene on the Blu ray release?

ThatScoobyDoom: Looked at it, read it, all the same ta me really.
Art tells a story just as well as words do.

Sounds threatening.
I remember seeing those dailies, I believe they mentioned them in one of the Rebel Force Radio Witwer commentaries as well.
I think those scenes may have totally altered the film, mostly because Fixer (a name that was later used in the Republic Commando novels and game for a Commando on Delta Squad) and Camie are kinda dicks.
You woulda felt even worse for Luke than you already kinda do.

It must have been on Blu because I recall seeing it on a rather large screen.
It’s weird, but I’ve not really dug into much of the deleted scenes.
I found the menus a bit counterintuitive.

What did you think of this cover?

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Iconic Cover Of Issue 1

@Fitzman73: Awesome cover.
So iconic to me.
Very 70s, very Star Wars.
I was super excited to see Alex Ross’ version of this cover will be an alternate cover for the new Marvel relaunch of their Star Wars series.
A perfect choice for a variant.

Yeah I was surprised how mean they were to Luke.
It totally felt like he was the annoying tag along kid.
Fixer was probably just wanting to get a finger in Camie and here comes Luke again cockblocking him.

It’s funny though, that whole sequence that was cut from the film is the most dated looking to me.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, it looks how I’d imagine a poster for the movie to look if the movie was a cartoon.
And to prove, to your point, just how iconic this cover is, this is one of the images I remember seeing before I became a Star Wars fan.

I don’t care what Alex Ross does, it looks amazing.
I hate Batman 66, but those covers he did were simply fuckin’ astounding.
It’s mindblowing what that dude does.

A few strange things about this cover, and please correct me if I’m wrong (I’m basing this on the cover inside my Dark Horse Omnibus so it could be wrong), but were Luke and Obi-Wan’s Lightsaber’s really red and Vader really green on the original cover?

Totally, their nickname for him is Wormie for fucksake!
Tattooine must be a truly lonely and depressing place for Luke to prefer to hang around with these two bloody cuntrags than to just fuck off around Anchorhead all alone.
And the really fascinating thing is, with as big of assholes as they are, and with them only showing up in one goddamn panel, why not just leave those two out?
I kinda want them to get the same treatment Owen & Beru got.
They make Luke seem pitiable more so than anything else.

I can see that.
Though I will say, I really liked those 3 panels of Luke watching the space battle, though they really don’t impact the story hugely.
Gives you even more of a sense that this kid wants to be out there doing more with his life than farming moisture…whatever the fuck that even means. Lol

@Fitzman73: I had/have the kid’s story book for the movie and as a kid I was always confused by the part where he’s watching the space battle.
For one thing I couldn’t figure out how he could see them so far up in the sky and then on top of it I always thought when the hell did this happen that wasn’t in the movie??
It was even more confusing in the storybook because unlike the comic where it’s just a drawing, that book had actual stills from those deleted scenes.
Even the Biggs farewell to Luke scene.
In fact that reminds me of when we were kids my cousin that had seen and told me all about Star Wars before I saw it, was adamant that Biggs was Darth Vader.
Now we were 7 and 6 or 6 and 5, something like that, but he had it figured out already.
And his proof?
He’d point to that picture of Luke and Biggs on Tatooine and say “see he’s wearing the same black cape as Vader”.
Well fucking OBVIOUSLY they must be the same guy. Lol.
Kids are dumb.

I’ll have to check my originals to see if the colors were the same as the omnibus, but I’m pretty sure that’s what they looked like in the 70s too.
Dark Horse did recolor the omnibus to make stuff look better I think but they didn’t drastically change anything.

That’s actually something I was going to bring up, the color choices are really bizarre in some of these pages.
It just goes to show how little the artists were allowed to see or that was even finalized before they had to draw and color the book.
Vader’s eye lenses are almost red in some panels, saber colors are jacked, Unlce Owen’s hair is straight up dark brown instead of a dirty, graying brown.
None of the principal cast really resemble the live actors.
It’s really weird.

Spoiler though, I did peek at issue 2 and the art changes dramatically.
So I think you were right in that as the adaptation goes on they will have had more exposure to the real thing and the art will begin to resemble the film more and more.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’m gonna guess that scene doesn’t befuddle you any longer?
Cause when I saw it, I figured he just saw some flashes or, to his eyes/binocs, small explosions.
One another thing about that scene, the comic seems to indicate that the battle takes place just over Tattooine, like just out of the planet’s pull.
Now I could well be wrong, but the movie seemed, at least to me, to show that that battle, while definetly within close proximity to the planet and its surface, it was a pretty decent distance away.
So, what I’m saying is, that scene probably wouldn’t have worked as well from a logic standpoint in the film.

That to me is the earliest form of internet speculation right there, it’s thoughts, theories, and cock suredness like that that lead folks to be disappointed in the prequels.
That just seems to be par for the course with Star Wars.
In a way, I think it’s kinda cool.
Not all fandoms have fuckers within their midst that will take a tiny, insignificant, useless detail and extrapolate that into a huge backstory all it’s own.

Did they recolor this?
I thought it was just Empire and Jedi they did touch-ups on for their “special edition” versions.

Even on the cover, Vader has Hypnotoad eyes.
Lets not forget though, in the OT Vader did at times have red lenses.
Before I go any further, I need to make it painfully clear that I love handdrawn comic art and animation, they had a particular warmth that digital art and animation severely lack.
Now, having said all of that, back then, for the most part, those artists sucked at doing likenesses.
They could draw their dicks off making beautiful pieces of art but they couldn’t really do reality to save their goddamn lives.

Makes sense, George probably loosened the reins a bit and let these guys see shit as it go closer to release just to ensure the comic didn’t end up sucking mad ass.

@Fitzman73: Oh I agree hand drawn is way better in my opinion.
It doesn’t feel as sterile to me.

I didn’t mean “recolor” in the same way they recolored those special edition books, but more just that they converted all of these printed pages to digital and part of that process must include punching up the color and adjusting saturations and all that shit.
I could be wrong, but I don’t think it’s a straight “scan” of the originals.

You’re right about those red lenses, that’s another example of concept art/early designs being used to as work reference for these.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, as beautiful as art is not it feels…cold, machine made, less personal, though some artists can still pull it off.

Ah, I understand what ya meant now.
You may be right, I’ve not a clue.

Just for a second, slightly off topic, in the movies, when you can see through Vader’s lenses and see Prowse’s actual eyes, does that make you laugh as much as I do?
I think the spinning Tie Fighter scene was one of the big examples of this.

Are you about ready to move onto Issue 2?
Cause I know I have strong feelings about that fuckin’ cover! Lol

@Fitzman73: You know as many times as I’ve watched that movie I don’t think I’ve ever really noticed seeing through those lenses.
I know you can, I know it exists and chaps people (especially GL), but personally I can’t recall ever actually noticing.
I must have a block against it seeing it.

Yeah I’m ready to move on, the next issue should meatier.

The cover?
Oh you mean like that it’s completely false advertising? Lol

image

Issue 2's Not So Iconic Cover

ThatScoobyDoom: I can’t help but notice it, real Shit That Should Not Be for the Babble fans reading.
Kinda like the Stormtrooper banging his head, then George added the sound effect.

Lets hope, I’m gonna start reading now.

YES!!!
I think Peter David has gone on rants a few times about covers like this advertising shit that would never happen in a book and I totally agree with him, it’s fuckin’ stupid.
And this is totally out of character for Luke, the first issue he’s the punching bag of Anchorhead and issue 2 he’s dealing with a bloodlust in the Mos Eisley cantina.
This cover is just as infamous as the 1st issues is famous.

@Fitzman73: That kind of shit was rampant back in the day.
They’d do anything they could to catch your attention at the newstand. Lol.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’ve noticed.

Ssssooooooo, did you read the issue yet?
Cause there’s really only one thing I want to talk about…I’m sure you know what that is!

@Fitzman73: Just finished it.
Whatever could it be that you want to talk about?
A certain crime lord’s first very (and very awkward) appearance?

ThatScoobyDoom: No, the sky in panel 3.
Why was it purple…OF COURSE!!!

A few things:
1. That proves to the Special Edition haters that that scene was originally part of Ep 4.
2. What in the actual fuck?
3. Do you remember that?
4. Lucas really was making this shit up as he went, wasn’t he?
5. When did the slug idea come up and where is the proof (beyond this) of existance of this critter in the grand scheme/archives???

And don’t worry about my vagueness, I’ll post a picture of that creature they called Jabba.

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Jabba The What???

@Fitzman73: Of course I remember it.
Those panels are legendary.
For 20 years that WAS the Jabba scene.
Eventually we saw a couple behind the scenes still photos of that scene with fat Scottish dude that was the stand in for Jabba, but yeah those couple comic pages were it.

He wasn’t necessarily making it up, at the time it was planned to superimpose a monster over the top of that actor in post, but they couldn’t figure out a good way to do it or a good monster design for Jabba so since they were pressed for time and money they dropped it at the last minute.

But.

It didn’t get cut from the comic, and Chaykin didn’t have a Jabba to work from so he just picked a background alien from Mos Eisley and used him.
You can actually see this guy in the film in the background when the Garindon spy is following Luke and Ben to docking bay 94.
They used him again as a background alien in Jabba’s Palace.

ThatScoobyDoom: I never knew about this!
This is amazing to me, an undiscovered little nugget of strangeness that is astoundingly fuckin’ weird and random.

Was this covered in the Rinzler book?

I’ve never noticed this dude or species before.
I’ll hafta pop in a disc and check this out.

@Fitzman73: Oh yeah it’s in that book.

Here’s the original scene

http://www.youtube.com/watch? v=4Sf4eb9l__4&sns=em

It’s totally weird.
And you know what they actually reference the switch in that Kenobi novel.
It was a nice little surprise in that book.

That alien shows up in Clone Wars too as an Easter egg.

It was definitely supposed to be in the film they just never got it finished.
And honestly, it’s not a very strong scene anyway.
It’s fun to see it in the SE but the movie actually works better without it.

Oh and the actor was Irish not Scottish.
My bad.
Declan Mulholland was his name.
RIP.

ThatScoobyDoom: That just seems wrong.

The most memorable thing in that scene in the film to me is Jabba’s line “Han, may bookey” not sure why but that line always sticks out in me head.

Did they really?
How so in the novel?
Was he just background in TCW?

I noticed the accent.
He’s fuckin’ dead???

@Fitzman73: Just background Clone Wars.
I just sent you the Wookieepedia link for that alien.
Ready to have your brain blown apart?
Meet Mosep Binneed.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mosep_Binneed

It’s got screencaps and the stuff from that novel.

Basically he’s Jabba’s accountant. He travels around doing his business, taking meetings and shit using Jabba’s name.
So a lot of dummies he meets just assume that he IS Jabba. Lol

Yep aneurysm mid backstroke.

ThatScoobyDoom: Dat is…awesome!

See, this is another thing I love about Star Wars, every single character you see onscreen has a name…and there are fuckers out there like Seth Green that know all of those names.
Simply fucking amazing to me.

Glad you picked up what I was putting down.

@Fitzman73: For sure.
I almost missed it and was like why is he so surprised an old fat fuck is dea–Oh!!! Right. Lol.

Can I get super nerdy for a second?
Did you notice how they had to explain how to turn on a lightsaber?
Did you notice they explained it WRONG?

ThatScoobyDoom: Lol.
It was that or a creaky knees joke, I regret nothing.

Never ask for permission to nerd round these parts.
You mean Obi-Wan telling him the wrong button to press?
Yeah, I picked up on that right away.
I immediately asked myself why George didn’t ask for that dialogue to be changed.

What about the art this time?
There were 2 things that stuck out for me besides Jabba that I wondered if you noticed.

@Fitzman73: Honestly I don’t think George gave a shit back then.
It wasn’t until it became this huge juggernaut that he started exercising a lot of control.
Plus his plate was so full that he probably never even saw it before it was printed.

I thought the art was a big leap forward.

Couple things I noticed were Chewie’s odd monkey/dog looking face and the interrogation droid that looked like Black Manta.

I would like to say though, this issue has one of my favorite pieces of Star Wars art and I always forget about it until I see it, but as soon as I see it I’m immediately like ahhhh yes!

Care to guess?

ThatScoobyDoom: That could be true, but keep in mind he was trying to keep shit under control a bit, he tried to retain as much of the film in the form of rights as he could.

Totally agreed.
And despite what I said about artists not being great at likenesses back then, dude pretty much nailed Alec Guinness.

Chewie was one of the things that stuck out to me.
I actually thought Chewie might have looked somewhat like that in Episode VII, you know gray him up some to show age.
Here it almost looks like his face is bald though.

I didn’t notice the Black Manta dude til you said that, that’s funny.

The other thing that popped out to me was that trippy final panel when they go to make the jump to hyperspace.
That panel is quintessential 70’s.

My memory is fuzzy on Ep IV right now, was that lizard faced fucker that set the Stormtroopers to the droids in the movie?

I just flipped through it 4 times, I’m stumped.
Maybe Han shooting Greedo?

@Fitzman73: Nope, you already inadvertently guess it in your last statement.
The final panel with the trippy colors and shit.
So 70s.
That looks like childhood to me.
I’d love it if they did a nice art print of just that panel.

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Whoa Man, Like...Hyperspace Is So...Whoa!

Yeah I was going to mention Chewie’s bald face.
There are a couple of panels where his face is so hairless and human he looks like Bigfoot or something.

They did really nail Alec Guiness’ likeness though in this issue.
I thought Tarkin looked very good and even Vader was much closer to the film version of Vader.

Yes, the garindan is that long snout guy in the hooded robe that reports them to the fuzz.
Another interesting difference between the comic and the movie.
That alien is completely different looking in the comic.

We touched on recoloring pages before and how I didn’t think these issues in the omnibus were drastically altered, just punched up and evened out, but an example of where they did alter the colors is the cover of the omnibus itself.
It’s the cover image of issue 1 but unlike the reprinted issue on the inside, this version of that image has been completely recolored.
They corrected the saber colors so they’re both blue, Solo’s blaster has been recolored, pretty much all of the elements in the image were altered.

ThatScoobyDoom: Lol, seriously?

Yeah, at times he’s got a bald face and a pink mustache.
It’s way off model but kinda wicked looking.

The differences are so vast in some cases that it almost looks like a different artist all together.

Okay, yeah, the little spy fuck.
Did 3PO & R2 see him outside and get nervous like they do here?
I do remember them ducking behind that door and keeping quiet while the Troopers knocked by I don’t remember homeboy running up to the Troops and pointing out the ro-buts.

I noticed that and almost pointed it out, Luke’s Saber is strange looking on both the way it goes from white to a deep red/blue.
Good point.

@Fitzman73: I don’t think he spots the droids, I don’t think he spots them until after they sell the speeder.

Yeah a pink mustache and a big fat dog nose.
I need to get out my originals because they used to include pinup pages and there’s one with Chewbacca where he’s got these gigantic feet with big toes and claws coming off of them it’s bizarre.

ThatScoobyDoom: That’s what I thought, nitpicky but I noticed it.

I envy that, those things must smell euphoric.
I only have one really old comic so I don’t get to get that smell often.

Anything else you wanted to mention or are you ready for issue 3?

@Fitzman73: There’s nothing like musty newsprint.
I only wish my originals were in a bit better shape, but whatever, they were much loved and read to death.
I just wish I would’ve stored them a little better.
They weren’t even bagged and boarded until maybe 5 years ago.
Isn’t that appalling?
Just packed in a long box all raw dog and shit.
Embarassing.

Yeah let’s go for number 3.

ThatScoobyDoom: Lol. That old book I have was found thrown in a closet at my Grandma’s house, I bagged and boarded it just last year.
Cover’s ripped off.
It’s a bloody disgrace.

One last thing about 2’s cover…what/who the funk is that giant blue demon Wookiee critter and where do I get one?

@Fitzman73: That is a Gotol on steroids

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gotal

ThatScoobyDoom: Are you George Lucas, Seth Green, and Dave Filoni’s unholy offspring?
How the hell do you keep track of all these background characters, species, and shit?
You shame me with your knowledge.

Moving on, issue 3’s cover.
What say you?

@Fitzman73: Years of absorbing stupid shit.

Issue 3 cover is a big step back after the first two.
Pretty lame composition really.
And Chewie?
Wtf is wrong with his face is he a Wookiee or a troll?
I’m always amazed and how much trouble they had in the 70s getting him to look right on the page.

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Han And His Hetero Life Mate Sasqua...I mean, Chewbacca!

ThatScoobyDoom: But you make all others tremble and kneel before you on trivia night, am I right?

The only thing I thought was kinda cool was the falling stormtrooper.
And Chewie looks like a rampaging gorilla during the season of fuck…but at least he’s colored right this time.
Where is this even supposed to be set?
Given the close quarters, it kinda looks like a cock(teehee, I said cock)pit.

Did you notice this is the first issue to have the true Star Wars logo on it that we know and love today?

@Fitzman73: Ah, I did not notice that.
Interesting.
More proof that the few issues were printed before the movie hit theaters.

ThatScoobyDoom: Exactly, that was what I thought too.

Make a list the thing of the things about this one that popped out for you.

I just noticed, something else about issue 2.
Did you see Leia saying her father was Bail Antilles?
Clearly a hold over from an older version of the actual script.
I skimmed Issue 1 of The Star Wars and saw the name proving Lucas really liked the name Antilles.

@Fitzman73: I did see that.
And you’re right that is a holdover from earlier drafts of the script.
I still can’t figure out why in the actual FUCK they used that name instead of Organa in Phantom Menace.
Made absolutely no sense to me.

Couple things that stuck out for me:

The scale of the Death Star when the Falcon gets pulled in.
It seriously look smaller than a Star Destroyer.

The “secret” compartments they hide in on the Falcon could not be more obvious or less camouflaged.

Couple of super nerdy things. They refer to Luke in disguise as TX-421 and not TK-421.
They say they have a prisoner transfer from cellblock TX-138 instead of cellblock 1138.
But somehow Leia’s cell number was right.
They say 2187 just like in the film.

ThatScoobyDoom: Whoa whoa whoa, what did they do in Phantom Menace?
Did they call Organa Antilles in Ep I?

Yeah, that was…weird… It does look as if you could put 2 Star Destroyers bridge to bridge and have roughly the same sized vehicle.

What, you don’t think a raised hatch with an obvious handle is covert?
What is wrong with you?
Do you know nothing of sneakery?

I noticed that!
I didn’t recall the call name from the movie but I did know that was wrong.
And, obviously, I noticed 1138…sidetrack, did you ever see THX 1138?

I noticed what you said about issue one with the dialogue.
During the “boring conversation” scene in my head I was hearing the film version, this is only slightly different but I still noticed.

How did the art hit you this go round?

@Fitzman73: Basically.
In Phantom Menace when Panaka comes in and names the people that were just nominated to be chancellor one of the names is “Bail Antilles, of Alderaan”.

Now.
You mean to tell me there are 2 senators from Alderaan named Bail?
And that the Captain of Organa’s ship is named Antilles?
Somebody either fucked up on continuity or I don’t know what.
The company line is oh no it’s just a different guy.
Bullshit.
Jar Jar I defend, wooden Anakin I can tolerate, but this has always bugged the hell out of me.

The art in this issue was pretty decent, there wasn’t anything too distracting aside from Chewbacca still being a riddle that Chaykin can’t solve.
Although thinking about it, the colorist is as much to blame for his weird look as Chaykin.

THX-1138 is a fantastic, strange little film.
Have you ever seen it or know what it’s about?
If not and you have the chance you should, it’s really interesting.
It really gives you and idea of the kind of movies George planned to make his career out of before taking a 40 year detour into mainstream blockbuster event films.
This one can really be categorized as a “film”, very art school, very experimental and abstract in some places.

ThatScoobyDoom: You know, until you just spelled it out, I remembered it but for some reason I just auto-retconned it in my mind.
She was later revealed to be Leia Organa in the movies so it is a bit of a head scratcher.
Maybe it was intended as a nod to that original gaff?
Did we not talk about this when we went over Phantom Menace in your last Typecast?

I’d say with the exception of Chewie, this issue has the best art yet.
Especially those first 2 pages.
I mean, go to page 2 and look at panels 2 and 3.
That is Carrie Fisher and Peter Cushing!
Those 2 panels are perfect.

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Is It Real Or Is It Memorex?

Flip to page 53 of your Omnibus and look at that last panel, for the time, that almost looks like a photo of Alec.
Page 57, the whole page, beautiful!
Page 59, another even better rendering of Carrie.

I’m guessing adding Steve Leiaoha on art (while he does slip on coloring) is a huge plus!

Never seen it, it’s another one of those movies I’ve never even seen a DVD of.
I’ve heard mixed reviews of it though, the harshest saying it’s slow and damn near impossible to understand.
The best being that it is a landmark of sci-fi, creative, imaginative, truly groundbreaking cinema.
I understand, and totally appreciate, why Lucas took so much time off to raise his family and cool down after Jedi…but after New Hope, when he gave up the directing duties, why couldn’t he have done something else?

@Fitzman73: Just burned out.
I should go back and look but I want to say he had some major health problems due to the stress of making that first one.
Plus he did do something else it’s called Indiana Jones.

Supposedly it’s these types of weird art films he’s going to start making again in his “retirement”.

Anyone who says THX is impossible to understand should stick to Michael Bay films.
It’s definitely not overexplained, but it’s not a David Lynch movie for Christ’s sake.
Worth a watch if you get the chance.

They really are starting to nail the likenesses now.
I will say the first panel of the next issue is one of my all time favorites.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’d not heard of any health issues.
I mean directorally, before the prequels he’d only directed like 4 movies or something.

The way he was talking there for a while I thought he was gonna direct Red Tail but he just headed that.

Hey, Bay can be complicated to…that second Transformers movie…I’m not quite sure even Bay understood what the fuck that piece of shit was getting at, so give credit where credit is due.

Are you ready to move onto issue 4 already?

@Fitzman73: Oh shit you’re right!
I always assumed he did direct Red Tails.
Wow.
On IMDB he’s not even listed as a writer.
Wow.
I’m dumb.

Sure, ready when you are.
This next issue has one of the most disturbing panels ever in my opinion.
This image scarred a 4 year old me forever.
Haunted my dreams for a long time.

ThatScoobyDoom: No, that’s how it was in the lead up to the release.
Alot of people swore he directed it because he was doing alot of interviews saying shit like “these are the types of movies I’m going to make from here on out”.
But appearently he just EP’d it.
It was fuckin’ weird, I’ve broken the news to a few folks and get damn near the same reaction.

Real quick, what do you think of that pin-up page with Han, Luke, Leia, and Chewie?

Would it be going to far to say this is far and away the best issue thus far?

@Fitzman73: Yeah I honestly did not realize he didn’t direct it.
That’s crazy.

That pinup page is one of the ugliest renderings of those characters I’ve ever seen. Lol.
It looks like they said shit we came up a page short and this thing has to go to print in 5 minutes, Howard draw something real fast.

I looked but I can’t seem to find the page I was telling you about where Chewie’s got these giant troll feet with big ass claw/toenails.
I know I didn’t imagine it.

This is definitely the most action packed and least expository so far.

Something I forgot from last issue, did it annoy you how many times they had Obi Wan say “Mr. Solo”?
Wtf is with that?

ThatScoobyDoom: Exactly, when he made that announcement a few years back about retiring from big budget movies (which in hindsight, we can see was him prepping us for the Disney sale) because of the internet to settle down and focus on making small films he talked that movie up and then promptly didn’t do a goddamn thing except maybe open a few doors to get it made.
And now, he seems so wrapped up in that museum he wants in Chicago…I wonder if maybe we’ve seen the last film directed by George Lucas.

I found it oddly hilarious, you notice Luke looks older than Han by like alot?
What’s Leia doing?
And Chewie…poor fuckin’ Chewie, man.

We still have 3 issues to go, we may run across it still, or maybe it was deeper in the run.

I did!
I noticed Luke dropped all formality to and just started calling him Solo.
These bitches acting like their his fuckin’ dad and best buddy all of a sudden too.

For reals this time, last thing about issue 3 and then we’ll move along move along: what did you think about the changes to the “Hokey religions” scene?
Cause I gotta say, I kinda like Obi-Wan saying Han doesn’t believe in the Force.
Mostly for the reason brought up in the Family Guy special, Luke just learns about the fuckin’ Force in the movie and all of a sudden he’s the biggest Force believer?

@Fitzman73: Poor Chewie.
He looks like a Wookiee version of Pig Pen.

I didn’t mind the added dialog there, it’s not really necessary in my opinion, but it was fine.
I did always think it was a little weird how strongly Luke reacted to him being like fuck that force shit, but, on the other hand he is really wet behind the ears and already bowed up on Solo a couple times so it doesn’t seem THAT implausible that he’d react like that just to contrary or defiant.
Especially when you consider he just found out that the father he never knew was hardcore into this Jedi thing, I can see why he’d be totally defensive at even a hint of derision.
He’s not only shitting on this cool thing that Luke is now into, but basically shitting on his dad’s life’s work.

ThatScoobyDoom: Ha. I’m not sure how best to describe it, like a Gorilla wearing a full body suit made out of shag carpet rolled in dog shit.

I never really though of it that way, but that does make it make more sense though I still say it’s a bit abrasive.

Now for Issue 4’s cover.
This one is right up there with the 1st one for me, it’s the best that Vader has looked in the entire series up to this point too.
Where do you stand on it?

image

Lamest Chess Game Ever...Or Best???

@Fitzman73: It’s a great cover, and you’re right, the best one since issue 1 by a mile.
I’ve never been a big fan of the lame dialog they used to put on covers, and this one is no different.
It’s so not Star Wars dialog.

ThatScoobyDoom: Very much so, I’ve come to the point where I just ignore it because it’s so bad that it’s sad.
I did laugh at Luke, Leia, and Obi-Wan though.
They all look like they dropped X and went to a rave.

Lets slip inside and see what’s going on under these covers…what?

Art and “Story”, thoughts?

@Fitzman73: Art was good, something I’ve noticed are the way certain panels jump out at me because they’re reversed compared to the same shot in the film.
For example, the swing across the chasm, they’re swinging left to right instead of right to left.
Not a complaint or nitpicking, just something that stsnds out to me.
There’s at least one other place so far that was like that.

This one felt a lot like issue 1 where there’s so much stuff compressed into one issue a lot of the drama is lost.
Like the compactor, they’re about to die and the next pnael they’re free.

Also, going back to numbers being different in the last issue, the pressure maintenance hatch was totally different number than in the movie (3263827).

BUT this issue continues the trend of the dialog beginning to sync up with the lines in the movie.
Most of the book seemed to be exactly the same as a opposed to the 1st issue where it was totally whacked.

Two huge things about this issue, a panel that disturbed and fascinated me for years, and a glaring error that really bothers me.
Any guesses?

ThatScoobyDoom: I noticed it with the chasm, not really noticed it before.
It’s kind interesting to see from another angle.
Yeah, totally not a nitpick, you brains just screaming at you though that it’s the wrong angle.

About the art, did you notice the complete disregard to continuity with Obi-Wan’s beard?
On panel he has a full beard and mustache, the next he has a chin beard and a mustache that just barely covers his upper lip.
And Chewie looks like he’s one of the Cat Creatures from Scooby-Doo on Zombie Island, it’s still horrible.

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3 Wookies Walk Into A Bar...

I was flipping through the other 20+ issues last night and Chewie gets even worse, he just has curtains of hair at times.
Like 3-4 foot long hair, it’s nuckin’ futs.

Speaking of the trash compactor, did you notice the little tag to that scene of the creature grabbing at them as they left?
I found that incredibly strange for some reason, even more so with the way Han just nonchalantly shots it and tells it to piss off.
And also in the compactor, I don’t remember this in the movie, after the walls stop, after she just snaps at Han about shooting his blaster Leia later tells him to blast the door again saying its quote “our only hope”.
Folks in this comic are bipolar.

I was gonna ask you about that, I was thinking of the elevator number from Revenge of the Sith for some reason.
I believe that was 2814…or maybe that’s our sector of space in the Green Lantern Corps.

Really?
Cause I was noticing alot more differences in 4 as compared to 3.
Alot of folks saying other folks lines, added shit to lines from the film, and then just “new” shit all together.

Hmm, I read it with the disturbing panel in mind and I had an answer until you just said an error panel.
Here’s the list of potential panels I saw that could fit:
Obi-Wan bursting into flames must be one.
Vader stabbing Obi-Wan’s robes instead of the small kick?
Luke’s scream as Obi-wan dies?
Maybe the passion of the Luke/Leia kiss?
That’s all I got.

@Fitzman73: It was Ben bursting into flames with a silent scream on his face.
Absolutely traumatizing.

image

Yeah I noticed they made it a romantic Gone With The Wind kiss instead of the peck on the cheek.
So many people must’ve been mindfucked when it turned out she was his sister. Lol.

In the movie Han does shoot the Dianoga but you don’t see it.
Leia yells at him not to but he’s like meh, and just shoots at something off scream and you hear a moan of pain.

But you’re right not only was the part where Leia tells him to shoot the door again totally invented for the comic but it makes absolutely no sense.
And honestly given how much ricochet there was the first time they should’ve been fried in that smaller space.

The last panel on page 75 with the vibrator saber, look at Vader’s hand, what do you see?
Because I see a hand that’s drawn backwards.

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Me Gun Kill You O-Ben Nobi!

ThatScoobyDoom: I can 100% see why, that is a fucked up piece of imagery right there.
Looks like horrible pain.

Lol It looks like if they had the time she was gonna peel off his pants and swallow his tattoiney.

After they escaped?
I do not remember that at all.
Blu to the rescue for damn sure, I need to see that.

Very much so, and based on how long that scene lasts here and the size of the compactor, they would have been crushed to death within seconds.

It’s going to be hard to describe in print, but I’m gonna try.
Both are right handed and both of their hands are at awkward angles, but it looks like Obi-Wan had the proverbial upper hand at that point.
It looks like he had Vader on the ropes and brought his blade down with such force and urgency that Vader had no choice but to bring his up quickly to block his attack.
Looks like Kenobi kinda rushed him and caught him off guard.
While all that makes sense based on the panel, given the close quarters of that image, Vader’s arm would have to be at an inhuman (even worse for a ridged cyborg arm) angle with his elbow tucked in and his wrist ready to snap.
But no, it’s not backwards it’s just EXTREMELY awkward and bad drawing of the human anatomy.

@Fitzman73: I had considered the angle thing as a possibility but why would a rational artist choose to do it that way in a panel where he knows you can’t see the rest of their bodies or arms and the end result is it looks like you drew the hand wrong?
So therefore I concluded he was drunk when he did it.

Something else I didn’t like was that when Ben-s ghost talks to Luke all he says is “Luke” and it was Luke that then decided to run.
It works so much better in the film where he actually tells him stop being a little emo bitch and RUN!

ThatScoobyDoom: Hey hey hey, don’t jump to conclusions like that…it was the 70’s, he was probably hopped up on goofballs or trippin’ on PCP or something.

Like I said though, it is an incredibly awkward panel.
Probably should have made Vader left handed, because we all know lefties are evil same as gingers…I know a few people on twitter who will hate that joke. (Hi @GingerNacre!)

Uh-huh!
After being so incensed that he had to attack, he takes a minute to wonder if it is Ben’s voice that said one word then decides he’s no longer angry and runs up the ramp…I legit said “huh” out loud reading it.

@Fitzman73: I can confirm lefties are evil.
But please do not compare us to gingers.

You mentioned it before briefly but how wrong did it look, Vader using his lightsaber to lift up part of Obi Wan’s empty robe instead of stomping on it to see if he was gone?
Lightsabers don’t work like that!
It’s crazy to think there was a time when the rules of Star Wars were that undefined that even the physical qualities of a lightsaber blade were open to artistic interpretation.

ThatScoobyDoom: …you’re a lefty…um, hey man, some of my best friends are lefties.

Yeah, he’s using it like one of those old claw grabbers you get for grandma so she’ll quit buggin’ you while you watch Mr. Belvedere.
That was another thing I noticed it right away so when you said glaring error I was almost positive you were headed there.

Just from the art, what you’ve said about this series being way out there and straying from true Star Wars after the movie stuff is 100% fact.

@Fitzman73: And we haven’t even gotten to giant green space bunnies, casino space stations, or Terminator-like cyborgs either.

ThatScoobyDoom: I know!
At one point, I’m gonna guess it didn’t take long after issue 6, it went from “Star Wars: The Greatest Space Opera Of All Time” to “Random Sci-Fi Movie”.
Some of that shit looks 50’s Sci-Fi B-Movie-ish and I can’t wait to read that shit!

Anywho, anything left to say about issue 4?

@Fitzman73: No I think I’m reading to hit issue 5.

image

What Movie Is This?

ThatScoobyDoom: Okay, just to switch it up, as you read it make a list of everything that sticks out for you, no matter how big or small.
I’ll do the same.

So here’s my list:

I’m on page 2 and I already have 3 things

1. With the exception of issue one, the first page of every issue is great.
Issue 5 has another stunning opening page.

2. Page 2, if found this to be pretty stupid.
The Luke and Han both have an internal monologue.
Luke says as he gets to the gun that he’s gotta do it for Ben, all’s good.
The narration says Han’s “Thoughts are of more mundane matters” and his thoughts are basically “Kenobi died to save us, lets hope he didn’t die for nothing”…how is that anymore mundane than Luke’s thought?
I’d say Luke’s is actually more mundane.

3. 3rd panel on page 2 (page 82 of your omnibus) has probably our best look at Chewie yet…sadly it’s a close up of his eyes.

4. I noticed the complete lack of “don’t get cocky kid”, I grew to like that line thanks to Family Guy.

5. Last panel on page 88, fuckin’ badass!

6. 2nd panel page 90, after how that kiss was portrayed…yikes.
And I get it, he doesn’t know yet that she’s his sister, but hindsight being what it is…yikes!

7. Last panel page 90, did Han do that in the movie just to break Luke’s balls?
The narration makes Han seem very dickish.

8. This has always kinda bugged me, I don’t know his name in the movie but here it’s General Jan Dodanna.
With the Force being an out of date old dead religion, why the fuck does he end his speech with May The Force Be With You?
And in that panel, why does he look like he’s threatening them all?

9. When Luke confronts Han about leaving, Han’s “SHUT UP CHEWIE!” in the penultimate panel of page 94 comes off really harsh.
Probably more an issue of no inflection in print than anything else but it still comes off bad.

10. Yet another deep passionate incestuous kiss. *facepalm*

image

11. Is the conversation with Biggs longer here?

12. Last page 1st panel, Leia Organa.
WTF???
Is it hyphenated and they just use half of it at a time?

@Fitzman73: Ok

Haven’t made my list yet but I’m going to comment on yours.

Those inner monologues are brutal.
Han Solo uses the word erstwhile.
What in THE fuck?

Yeah they really play up the incest in this. Lol.
But they’re not alone.
You should check out Splinter of the Mind’s Eye.
It’s the first SW novel and the true beginning of the EU.
And boy oh boy does the author REALLY go off the rails. Lol.
Holy shit this ae out right after Star Wars and literally everything in this book is contradicted within 3 years by Empire.
It reads like straight up fan fic.

They never say it in the movie but that was Dodonna’s name.
I think it’s in the novelization and probably in the script as well.
He looks like angry Zeus in Clash Of the Titans here.

The Biggs scene seems about the same length to me but “Blue” Leader has more dialog I think.
I think all that extra shit got cut because all the talk about Luke’s dad would completely mess up what gets established in the prequels.
Nobody knows Luke is the son of Anakin Skywalker, they couldn’t that was the whole point of hiding him on Tatooine.
So him bringing him up and mentioning Luke is the son of a Jedi cannot be allowed into canon at all.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, it’s a good idea and tool to use to describe what’s going on in their heads but it’s extremely poorly executed here.

Totally.
If you read this and then watched the movie it’d be awfully strange.
This sets it up as though Luke and Leia are the couple of the saga, I always got the feeling from A New Hope (no prequels, no sequels) that it was kinda supposed to be a bit of a triangle.
I can totally understand they didn’t know they were siblings, but that is a big departure from the film.
By this point, it was December of 77.
There is no excuse for huge discrepancies such as this.

I’ll probably get to Splinter and A New Hope next year.
Speaking of the Ep IV novel, do you have the original?

He does!!!
He looks fuckin’ crazed!

Well, it has to be expected that folks would know him or make the connection to Anakin.
Putting Luke on Tattooine was a pretty fuckin’ stupid idea when you really think about it.
I’ll probably say this again when we cover Ep III, but Anakin Skywalker was known in and around his town, especially after the Boonta Eve Race.
When a new kid named Skywalker shows up not far away it’s not a stretch to think that may be related.

@Fitzman73: True, but it’s pretty clear in ep3 that almost no one knows Anakin knocked up Padme or that the kid was actually born.
They went so far as to bury Padme with a fake pregnant belly if I remember correctly.
Anakin was known around Mos Espa and even at that he was only there for a couple years.
I doubt he was very well known as far off as Mos Eisley.
I agree it seems like a weird choice on the surface but Anakin wanted nothing and mean NOTHING to do with Tatooine after ep2 so I think Obi-Wan and Yoda actually played that pretty brilliantly.

But you are right in a way since he was the only human to win the Boonta Eve race, that name would be known even 30 years later on Tatooine.
But still all Owen would have to say if someone questioned about Luke was oh yeah he’s my step mom’s 3rd cousin’s kid.

It is weird though that they wouldn’t have changed his name to Lars as a baby.
I mean wtf? Lol.
But let’s be honest, GL was making it up as he went sometimes and some logic or continuity problems can’t always be fixed other than by suspending disbelief.
Don’t ask.
Don’t tell. Lol.

ThatScoobyDoom: All of that is true, but I’m not talking about on the imperial level.
I just mean regular joes, Skywalker is not a common name so it’s easy to think, given Anakin’s skill and penchant for showing off, he made have made a lasting memory.
Also, what of Blue Leader is Jaybo Hood?

Not only was he the only human to win the Boonta Eve, I believe at 1 point he said he was the only human who could do it.

Of course, it does seem a cop out to always paint everything with the brush of “He mad it up as he went” but it is true.
So, I’ll give you that.

@Fitzman73: And for the most part they seem to always find creative ways to retcon or work those types of problems into the overall saga.

Ok here’s my list.

1. The title of this issue.
Holy crap can we just start there?
“Lo, the moons of Yavin”.
Wow what a truly Marvel title, sounds like it came straight from Stan Lee’s mouth.
Not sure if I hate it for being so un-Star Wars or love it for being so old school comic booky.

2. Page 82, bottom row middle panel.
Worst rendering of a TIE pilot in the history of ever.
To this day when I see that panel my first thought is that it’s a shot from Luke’s POV up through the gun turret canopy with the weird triangle helmet being the back end of the cannons.

3. Luke uses the Force to shoot the TIEs.
Don’t like it.
Diminishes the ending where he finally trusts his feelings and uses the Force to hit the exhaust port.

4. Page 94 top panel.
As a kid I always thought those were the noses of X-Wings but that the nose cones retracted and exposed cannons.
It wasn’t until I was older that I realized duh they were Y Wings.

5. Blue Leader.
Roy Thomas hadn’t yet got the memo that they were changing Luke’s group from Blue to Red, so Red Leader is called Blue Leader on page 95.
It’s this way in the novelization too.
(Which, yes I do have)

6. Page 96 the X-Wing ground crew guy calls Luke “Skyboy”.
What a dickhead.
Reminded me of Ahsoka calling Anakin “Skyguy” in the Clone Wars only not even remotely as cute.

7. Page 97.
I guess at this point Leia still hasn’t showered because they’ve got her AAAAAAAAAALL they way on the other side of the command center. Lol.

That’s it.
Can’t wait to find out if they blow up the Death Star!

ThatScoobyDoom: I will give it up for George and Dave and all the other writers over the years, whenever there was a problem they did a better job of figuring out a way around it or incorporating it in than MARVEL, DC, or and other comic company ever has.
I’ll once again stroke Filoni and say that TCW is a perfect example of that.

Awfully poetical, ain’t it? Lol

No, that was the 1st Star Wars crossover…Star Wars meets The Coneheads, obviously.
Crossovers in those days weren’t as in your face as they are today.

The first instance played to me as he just calmed himself and took control…the second time was clear Force usage, agreed.

Huh, I didn’t notice that.
I just thought they was X-Wings meself.
Good eye, son.

Yeah, I just accepted that gaff and moved on.
After a while the little shit like that starts to feel like holding a hand on a midget’s head and kicking him in the bollocks.
It’s just too easy to do.
I’ll get to the original Ep IV novel in just a bit.

I left that off my list just to see if you’d mention it.
What a cockstain.
Without Luke they wouldn’t have Leia and this fuckin’ shitwhistler has diminished him too “Skyboy”.
FUCK YOU, DUDE!

That one is weird, when I first saw it I was like “oh, that’s Mon Mothma. I looks exactly like her!” and then I realized “wait, wasn’t she in Jedi? Who the fuck is this broad?”.
That’s an all around bad panel.

I bet you 25 credits they don’t make a dent in the Death Star.

I forget, did we talk about this cover?

@Fitzman73: Ah! We didn’t.
I meant to, and then forgot.
If you thought issue 2’s cover was false advertising what about this one? Lol.

ThatScoobyDoom: Hey, it looks cool…but I wanna know what fuckin’ comic this is advertising?!?!?

About the Ep IV novelization, how long was that?
Cause the one I have is horribly short, it’s like 217 pages or so.
I know I mentioned how shit back then didn’t have as much as going on as shit now does bit fuck.

@Fitzman73: How big of a book is that one?
Is it the larger format collected edition or is it just the standard paperback size?

The cover actually reminds me of the pilot episode of the 70s Battlestar Galactica when the Cylons destroy Caprica.
People running around with ships blasting everything.
Whatever it was advertising, it was not this comic.

ThatScoobyDoom: Just the paperback, about the same size as the Batman 89 novel.
I do have the first 3 Indy movie novels in that collected edition though.

I still never watched B*G.
It looked far too serious, kinda like Star Trek but darker…well, at least the newer series.
Never seen shit from the original series except that silver robot head.

Very much so.

Speaking of Indy, do you have any of the Indy comics?

@Fitzman73: Yeah I’d say that’s about right then.
I don’t have them both in front of me but I’d guess SW and Batman 89 are about the same thickness.
That’s about standard for old movie novelizations.
Even 2001 is slim.
Dense.
But slim.

You should check out the new BSG. It’s pretty fucking dope.
It’s definitely dark and serious.
It’s like 70s BSG is 60s Batman and 00s BSG is Nolan Batman (only watchable).
I have issues with how it ended kinda (not as many as some people) but overall highly recommend at least the first few episodes to get a taste.
If you’re not hooked after the original mini series that launched the show, you probably won’t ever be.
That mini series is strong.

BTW, watch the opening of 70s BSG and tell me it doesn’t hook you.
The show itself is campy and hella dated, but that opening still gets me excited.

This might be a shocking admission, but I don’t remember an Indy comic series.
Although I think I do have the Marvel adaptation of Raiders somewhere that I stumbled on basically in the garbage (left behind after some people moved).

ThatScoobyDoom: That kinda sucks.

60’s Batman and Nolan are both things I’m not a huge fan of.
Nolan made a good movie out of the gate and just free fell from there.

The Further Adventures Of Indy ran for like 30-35 issues, Dark Horse put out 3 Omnibus’ collecting those and the movie adaptations.
They also did quite a few mini/limited series that were later collected in Omnibus’.
Of the 5 released I have all but the first volume of Further Adventures.
They look pretty cool but I’m holding out til I get that volume to read them, but I may not find it now.

Anywho, are you ready to go to issue 6 and Old Yeller this sum bitch?

@Fitzman73: I was just comparing them in terms of tone.
One is kinda silly the other is the same premise but taken very earnestly.
I hated the Nolan films but love me some BSG so maybe not the best analogy.

I’m ready let’s stick a fork in this thing.

ThatScoobyDoom: You hated the Nolan movies???
Awwwww, I wanna get into that so bad…next time we have got to talk about that!
Because I have very strong feelings that probably line up with yours that I really wanna get on the record…because I’m very clearly a glutton for punishment!

So sir, tell us all what you think of this…Soul Shattering cover.

@Fitzman73: Suffice to say I have yet to watch DKR.
Begins had ok moments, Dark Knight was a fun movie but aside from Heath Ledger it’s pretty blah.
And from wgat I’ve heard DKR is a Man of Steel sized rape of the Batman mythos.
Nuff said.

Speaking of something being so unfaithful to the spirit of the license, holy shit there’s so much wrong with the cover to issue 6, I mean where does one begin?
I mean.
Wow.

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What Can I say, This Never Happened

Also before I forget, in the top left of the covers for the SW series where the price goes, there’s a picture of what I can only assume is supposed to be Luke Skywalker but I swear to god every time I see it, for a split second I wonder why Thundarr the Barbarian is on the cover of a Star Wars comic.

ThatScoobyDoom: After the abortion that was TDK, TDKR isn’t completely horrible.
I hated Ledger, anybody would have been a better Riddler than he was…and yes, I said Riddler because that was clearly not Joker.

That’s for goddamn sure, but maybe they were predicting Empire’s ending…with Leia thrown in.
For a split second I thought that Tie Fighter was The Enterprise.
And is it just me or does Vader look like MARVEL’s Apocalypse?

HAHAHAHA!
Speaking of Luke, does it annoy you the way his hair color changes with every cover?
Yellow, Green, and Brown have all been used.
Pick a fuckin’ color and stick with it for fucksake.

@Fitzman73: Yeah actually I thought Vader looked like a black Silver Samurai or something.
They definitely crossed the streams on that drawing.

ThatScoobyDoom: No shit!

Get up in dem guts, tell me whatchu think of this issues insidey parts?

@Fitzman73: BY THE IMMORTAL GODS OF THE SITH… I present to you my list.

1. First panel, Wedge is flying a Y-wing

2. Always thought it was cool that in the movie and in the comic they made a point of saying they had to pass through their shields and that it was kind of a rough thing to do

3. Pg 101 features another interesting TIE pilot rendering.
Reminds me a little of of the version 1 Snake Eyes outfit in the GI Joe comic

4. Page 103 they attempt to show how a pilot enters a TIE fighter.
Of course we now know thanks to Rebels this ain’t it.

5. Page 104 first panel.
Is that Lon Chaney as the Wolf Man?

6. Page 105, Porkins’ first name is “Tono” as in “he weighs a Ton, O! “.
And Biggs calls him Piggy! Lmfao.

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FUCK YOU BIGGS, FUCK! YOU!

7. Blue Leader doesn’t crash after losing his starboard engine.
Instead Vader just straight up vaporizes him.

8. Page 107, Wedge is now in an X-Wing

9. Page 110, “Now with the Red Group beaten off”.
What the fuck Roy?
Phrasing dude, phrasing…

10. They make it seem like Wedge breaking off out of the trench might’ve been an intentional ruse to get the TIEs to chase him.
Never considered that.
I like it.

11. Page 110, TIE pilot looks almost normal

12. Finally page 115 answers the age old question of why Chewie didn’t get a medal

ThatScoobyDoom: 1. There seems to be a couple of Y-Wings mistakenly in here.

4. Devils Advocate, maybe that is how you get into that TIE.
Remember Vader’s is slightly different.

5. Lol

6. See my E.

9. And don’t forget the infamous “Close it up, Wedge! You can’t do any more good back there.” They had no clue how fuckin’ dirty and deranged we’d be in the future.

10. Is that what you got out of that?
Maybe I’m just dumb today, but I found the battle pretty hard to follow with all the tight close-ups and tiny panels.

12. It’s better than no explination at all or thinking he got snubbed…but does she not know how to tell the furry fuck to stand on a step or 2 below her?

I made my list before reading yours, so keep that in mind.

A. Opening page is once again a 5 star stunner.

B. I nerded out hardcore at Blue Two-Six standing by.

C. Page 101, the Troopera having a convo about the silly Rebels is “new” and pretty cool.

D. Page 105, that like Leia window.All of this really make me wonder if George was wanting Luke and Leia together.

E. Biggs “so long, Piggy.” as Porkins dies…what a dick.

F. 113, that is 70’s psychedelic beauty, man.

G. 114, Didn’t Lando call Han a space-devil in Empire?

H. 114, panel 5, now Leia is seconds away from blowing Han.
WTF???

I. A New Adventure Of The Star Warriors!
That sounds so fuckin’ retarded to me! Lol

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Derr, Ster Werryers, Derr!

@Fitzman73: Yeah his is different and there’s always a way to explain weird shit, but that shows him entering from what looks like the rear (nootch) but the way his ship is built you couldn’t get in that way. Lol.

They definitely had no clue what to make of that possible love triangle.

Yes the further adventures of the Star Warriors.
But for now they are content. Lol.
What a lame ending line.

I did like the description of the Death Star explosion and how it would be collapsing on itself for days.
Probably not the most scientifically accurate description of an explosion in space (ok, DEFINITELY not) but still, dramatic.

ThatScoobyDoom: I know, just trying to not be too damn hard on it cause I really dug this issue.

Yeah, that is the big take away I feel.
They had so many ideas, thoughts, directions, and they just had to many ingredients to work with.

I meant just the moniker Star Warriors, but totally.

And different.
They could have just said it esploded and it was done, but they tried to put a little sizzle on it and for once it worked.

Art wise, how did this issue feel to you?

@Fitzman73: It was pretty good I thought, the way he drew the dogfighting looked cool.
The big splash of the Death Star explosion is another one I’d like a nice print of.

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All Kinds Of Beautiful

ThatScoobyDoom: In some ways it is the best art so far.

Hell yeah!
That is a great piece, I’d hang it on my wall for damn sure.

Storywise, changes and all, you vibin’ on this one?

@Fitzman73: Yeah I thought it worked well as a finale.
Stayed pretty true to the movie, and the trench run while greatly shortened for page count was still well done.

ThatScoobyDoom: Couldn’t agree more.

So overall, what do you think of this 6?
You’ve actually read them many times before, do they feel different now?

@Fitzman73: Yeah I’d say they feel different in some place and very much the same in others.

I don’t remember them being so far off from the movie though.
The images, the dialog, I mean it almost felt like that “The Star Wars” comic in places where it’s almost a different interpretation altogether.

Obviously I’m way more critical now than I used to be as a kid.
I guess critical is not exactly the right word, I just like poking fun at the corny stuff and old timey comic book dialog.
I really do love these issues if for nothing else than reading them or even just thumbing through them looking at some of the really iconic art instantly takes me back to gradeschool, laying on my bedroom floor with these spread out in front of me.

And in a way I have more of a sense memory with these than I do the actual film.
I mean I probably only saw it once in the theater in the 70s, but like the Kenner toys I looked the comics every day.

ThatScoobyDoom: Clearly, based solely on your reactions to some panels, some of these images with be burned into your brain til the day you die.

We both have said that many times over the course of this Typecast, it really does feel at times like storyboards from the film and at others like a totally different beast.
This has been a truly fascinating experience.

And it must be pointed out that, and this is something I’ve learned from writing reviews, it is far easier to point out flaws.
When it’s good you barely notice, but you hit a shitty panel where Chewbacca looks like Lon Chaney in a shag rug suit and that shit sticks out and burrows into your brain.
We tried to point out the good, but what can you say beyond “I like that”.
It’s hard to explain why something is good or why it resonates with us, but if something is bad you can usually explain with extreme eloquence why.

Totally understandable, you probably lived and breathed these comics.
You had these in your hands day in and day out, acting them out with figures, studying the art, just listlessly flipping through ’em because you were a goddamn kid in an age where you didn’t have on demand entertainment beyond a book, magazine, or comic.
Shit stuck with you in those days in a way I’m not sure that the pop culture of today does or will in the future.
Kinda sad.

@Fitzman73: You’re right, staying power is definitely something today’s pop culture lacks, and a lot of it does have to do with just the absolute flood of nonstop content 24 hours a day.
Good bad ugly it all blends together at some point.
But back in the day there was so much less bullshit to distract you.

Yeah this was a fun experiment.
Especially doing it with someone that has never seen these panels before.
Hopefully we do this again, the next arc introduces one of the most controversial and maligned characters in all of the Star Wars EU.
And the arc after that is when I started being a monthly collector so I have pretty vivid memories of that art as well.
Some pretty cool concepts.

ThatScoobyDoom: And it’s even worse with places like netflix where the dump all of their new episodes and shit at once. Stretched out over the year gives folks a chance to spend alot of time talkin’ about it.
Now you just have to hope you watch as fast as your pals or else they’re on to the next thing while you’re still on episode 4 of 12.

As fun as this was?
I guarantee you and anybody else reading this, be it here on this site or in some other medium, we are doing this again.

Next time you come around these parts we gotta finish talking prequels though.

@Fitzman73: Cool I’ll leave you with one prequel comment.

For anyone that thinks they lack depth and subtlety, consider this:

The celebration music at the end of Episode I is really just the Emperor’s Theme sped up and performed by a children’s choir.

#MicDrop

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You know the drill, kids!
Follow Sir Fitz on the Twitter @Fitzman73 and also follow the Twitter for the Podcast he does with his Sister (@Tacky1Z) @JJ2End.
And be sure to listen to Just Jump To The End at http://JJ2End.com, I’ve done intros for it so you know I like it well enough!

And remember the world sucks enough so don’t be a dick, thanks for reading.

Typecast #4: The MCU with Scoobies Two

Hey kids, welcome back.
This time around for the Typecast I talked to my brother from another mother, my best friend on this planet, and the dude without whom I’d not have this site or anything else I’ve done in the last 3 years or so (as you’ll read soon in an upcoming post here on this site) about the majority of Phase 1 of the MCU.
He is the webmaster of, what is in my opinion the very best Scooby-Doo site in the intranets, http://Scoobyfan.net.

His screenname, SpiderScooby, will appear in red and link to http://Scoobyfan.net.

This conversation appears just as it was had, spelling mistakes and all, to maintain the honest of the whole thing.

ThatScoobyDoom: As with all things, lets start at the beginning.
Iron Man was announced as the first movie MARVEL would be producing all on their onsies and they picked RDJ to play Tony, what dif you think of all that when you first heard it?

SpiderScooby: When the first Iron Man was coming out, I was only vaugely familar with the character.
I had never read an Iron Man comic.
I only knew him from his animated appearances.
So I didn’t pay much attention to it until that first Comic-Con trailer came out.

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ThatScoobyDoom: So you didn’t really have an opinion on RDJ, did you?

Oh yeah, I remember seeing that trailer and being blown away by it.
That one shot of him flying between the 2 fighter jets and then breaking off had me all aquiver!

SpiderScooby: I had no expectations, really.
But from that first trailer, it was pretty clear that this was going to be something special.

ThatScoobyDoom: That is a fact.

Okay, what was your reaction when it finally got out that Sam Jackson was in it as Fury?
Cause I know I went apeshit with giddiness.

SpiderScooby: Absolutely perfect casting.
They couldn’t have picked a better choice.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’m gonna guess you, like everybody else, were ecstatic about the possibility of them building a larger universe?

SpiderScooby: Yes and no.
While it certainly opened up a wide range of possibilities, they still had the potential to fall flat on their face.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, and I must keep in mind that that was their first shot at the whole thing under their own steam.

From the jump I was behind the idea of RDJ as Tony because who better to play a drunken asshole that a dude that everybody thought of as a drunken/junkie asshole.
It’s not like he wouldn’t have an experiance to pull from to play the part.

SpiderScooby: His career sure made a comeback with that and Tropic Thunder.
Tony Stark is the James Bond of superheroes, and he captured that perfectly.

ThatScoobyDoom: It is funny the way back then folks were like “that dude? He’ll ruin it.” and now he’s one of the most sought after actors on the freakin’ planet!

Did you go see Iron Man in a theater?

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SpiderScooby: I hadn’t seen much with him, which is why I didn’t have much of a opinion of him.
But he was so right for the part.

I did.
I saw it multiple times actually.

ThatScoobyDoom: I wanted to see that movie he did with Mel, I think it was A Guide To Recognizing Your Saints, but never got around to it.
But I clearly agree.

What was that like on the big screen?

SpiderScooby: After a few years of medicore comic book films, it felt so refreshing.
It just had a sense of fun to it.
That end scene just put a smile on your face.
The Nick Fury scene was iceing on the cake.

ThatScoobyDoom: It was the birth of the modern Superhero movie.
It really did do for the genre what Blade did in the late 90’s.

How about Incredible Hulk?
Did that peak your interest more than Iron Man did?

SpiderScooby: Yes, I was much more familar with Hulk.
And I feel he’s the one character in the MCU that gets the short end of the stick.
Incredible Hulk had the disadvantage of coming out two months after Iron Man, five years after Ang Lee’s Hulk, and I feel that really hurt the movie.
It’s a fun movie.
It had some good action.
Edward Nortan was a great Bruce Banner.
It’s just unfortunate that we’re not getting another Hulk solo movie, especially after Avengers.

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ThatScoobyDoom: I think it may have suffered more from the Ang Lee movie because that was such a mess.
I can’t remember if they hyped up the fact that Incredible Hulk and Iron Man were in a shared universe or not, but I’d like to think that Iron Man helped it a wee bit.

Plus, you have to remember Bixby & Ferrigno are still who alot of folks think of when you say Hulk, especially The Incredible Hulk.

SpiderScooby: From what I can remember, we knew about the Tony Stark scene, but there wasn’t much talk about it.

ThatScoobyDoom: Universal didn’t do a great job marketing that movie, did they?

SpiderScooby: No, they did not.

ThatScoobyDoom: I didn’t think so, I kinda remember that movie being over shadowed by alot of shit that summer.

SpiderScooby: If I reember correctly, it made about as much as the previous movie did.

ThatScoobyDoom: Which is a real shame, that first movie sucked.

Do you think after Infinity War we’ll see a solo Hulk movie again or do you think his time alone is done?

SpiderScooby: No, and that’s what dissapoints me the most about Marvel’s recent announcement.
They don’t seem to have any interest in another solo Hulk film.

ThatScoobyDoom: Well, can you blame them?
I mean, you said yourself that TIH made about the same as the first.
5 years later makes that number even worse than it was in 2003.

No matter how much folks seem to like Ruffles Have Ridges, that character has kinda fell flat solo twice.

SpiderScooby: You are correct, he worked better as part of a team.
But I think Hulk is worthy of another chance.

ThatScoobyDoom: I don’t know if he worked better on a team, but they definitely ate up some of the spotlight and helped prop him up.

SpiderScooby: But back to The Incredible Hulk.
I do like how the movie pays homage to the 70’s TV shoe.

Also the tie-in to Captain America with Banner trying to recreate the Super Solider serum was nice.

ThatScoobyDoom: Same here.
Norton captured the essence of Bixby while not just straight up copying what he did.

I don’t think that movie gets nearly enough credit for the universe building it did, folks tend to just prop up Iron Man and forget it.

Recreating has been part of his story before, remember the first Ultimate Avengers animated movie?

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SpiderScooby: And don’t forget the little hints at the Lonely Man Theme in the score.

I think Iron Man 2 did most of the universe building.
But yeah, TIH certainly helped it along.

Not a huge fan of that movie, I admit.

ThatScoobyDoom: Say what now?

It did, but TIH showed it first.
Even more so than the first Iron Man.
Sure, the first Iron Man had Fury but to folks that know nothing of the comics, he was just random spooky guy played by Sam Jackson.
TIH pulled Tony in.

I dug it, not perfect but few things are.

SpiderScooby: Not only was it setting up the MCU, it was also setting up for future sequels, which is another reason why it’s a shame they’re not getting another chance.

ThatScoobyDoom: You never know, they may bring some of that shit in to his story in the other movies…it’s not looking likely, but it could happen.

Iron Man 2, where do you stand on that?

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SpiderScooby: Iron Man 2 is the weakest link of the MCU.
Mainly due to the Avengers stuff feeling forced in.
there’s way too much going on.
It doesn’t feel as fresh as the first film.

That said, it’s a entertaining movie.
And it gave us the suitcase armor.

ThatScoobyDoom: I look at it as the Hudson Hawk of the MCU.
Everybody said Hudson Hawk was a clusterfuck of a movie that had too much going on to make sense.

I think if you pay attention to both, you can follow them with ease.
They both just demand a wee bit more of your attention than most movies do.

Suitcase armor was piiiiimp!

SpiderScooby: The plot suffered because of it though.
That was time they could’ve used giving Whiplash more character development.

ThatScoobyDoom: True, but I didn’t see him being a very deep villain anyway.
I think that may well be because of Mickey Rourke, who I’m not a huge fan of.
Only flick he was in besides Iron Man 2 that I really like that I can think of is Harley Davidson and the Marlboro Man.

SpiderScooby: I think they could’ve done something more interesting with him had they had a stronger script.
But you’re right.
This movie doesn’t have very strong villians.

ThatScoobyDoom: It also kinda felt a little weird to me to be having Tony fight another dude in a metal suit so soon after Stane.

I should also mention the soundtrack for 2 was great too.
Can’t go wrong with AC/DC.

SpiderScooby: I think that was one of the worries going in.
That Iron Man’s villians would just be guys using arc reacter tech.

The soundtrack was okay, yeah.

ThatScoobyDoom: A very real worry, I think I did suffer some for it.
I’m glad they moved on for Avengers and Iron Man 3, I think I’ll be okay with it for Age Of Ultron.

More than okay.

SpiderScooby: What do you think of Rhodey’s recasting?

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ThatScoobyDoom: I had absolutely zero problem with it, I’ve never liked Terrence Howard anyway.
Don Cheadle brings more prestige to the MCU too.
Wish they woulda just picked him from the start.

You?

SpiderScooby: See, I never had a problem with Terance Howard. I liked him in the role.
BUT…Cheadle is denfinetly better.

ThatScoobyDoom: He just seems whiney to me, always has a look like he’s on the verge of tears.
Whenever I see him trying to be a badass or serious it just makes me laugh hysterically.

SpiderScooby: I think he was just miscast.

ThatScoobyDoom: Very much so.
Can’t say it enough, he was just a weird choice.

So next came THOR.
When that was announced what did you think or expect?

SpiderScooby: I was curious to see if they could pull off Thor sucessfully without it coming off as silly(remember that Incredible Hulk tv move?).
The movie doesn’t take itself too seriously, which I think was the right move.

ThatScoobyDoom: Oh dear god, that TV movie was…so so so bad…and I loved that show.

When I first heard of it I was extremely excited, I’ve always thought THOR had the potential to be just as big if not bigger than Superman.
Mostly because MARVEL can ground a God character much better than DC, MARVEL made a drunken billionaire relatable for christsake!
So I was over the moon.

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SpiderScooby: Imagine if Thor kept refering to Hulk as “You Green Troll!” in The Avengers?

That’s a interesting comparision. I always equate Captain America with Superman(more on that in a few).
But you are right.
They really made him likable.

ThatScoobyDoom: Stop, don’t even say that! Lol

Alot of people do, I understand that comparison, but don’t fully agree with it.
THOR and Superman are both, basically, Gods.
Neither should be relatable, and for the most part Superman isn’t.
Some how MARVEL makes this goofy looking, wing headed, hammer wielding God work on a very human level.
It’s preposterous…but it works!

SpiderScooby: It helps that the movie is entertaing.
And can I just say that Loki is the stand out villian of the MCU?
Most of the villians of the MCU have been pretty weak except for him.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, I don’t think you’re necessarily going out on a limb with that one. Lol
I don’t think Jeff Bridges/Iron Monger was weak at all…but he wasn’t worth revisiting even if they could.

Mickey Rourke, for sure he was weak.

I like Tim Roth but Abomination was less…than stellar.

The only other villain that I think matches Loki is Red Skull, but Hugo Weaving had to be a whiney little shit.
I think the reason Loki works so well (besides Tom Hiddleston) is the whole “God Of Mischief” thing.
It gives him license to be big, bombastic, and over the top!

SpiderScooby: Don’t forget turning The Manderin into a joke.

One knock I’ll give the movie, it takes place too much on earth.
Something I think the sequel fixed.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, that was 9 kinds of not good.

I don’t think that was a problem.
It helped to ground it and him, helped to make you care about him.

As I said on your board when it came out, my only real problem with it was that Kenneth Branagh used the tilt shot a little to much for my taste.

Speaking of him, what was your reaction to him directing?
I know some folks got a bit pissy when he was first announced.

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SpiderScooby: I wanted more fantasy and less Thor getting drunk, but sure.

He is a Shakespeare guy so it made perfect sense I thought.

ThatScoobyDoom: It did make him more sympathetic though, for sure.

Yeah, I was bewildered by the backlash.
He seemed the perfect choice.

Other than Avengers, I think THOR may well be my favorite movie of the MCU…it is a close call with the next movie though.

SpiderScooby: My memory’s a bit fuzzy, but was there much backlash?
I didn’t think he was a bad choice at all.

It’s middle of the road for me.
I put it ahead of Iron Man 2 and The Incredible Hulk.

ThatScoobyDoom: I distinctly remember quite a few folks all capping “THE IDIOT TEACHER FROM HARRY POTTER!!!” that type of stuff always sticks out in my memory…now ask me what I did last week…not a clue. Lol

I find it far better than those, and even the first Iron Man.

Now the next movie we got was Captain America: The First Avenger.
What were your initial thoughts on it?

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SpiderScooby: The First Avenger: Think about it.
Marvel made a better Superman movie with Captain America than DC did with Man of Steel.
People say the “Big Blue Boy Scout” doesn’t work today.
But I think TFA was able to do it without it being completely silly or stupid

ThatScoobyDoom: I’d put Captain America up against any DC movie ever made…including the DTV’s.

Superman and Cap do have vast differences though, Cap isn’t all powerful.
Superman is basically a God.
And that is the big difference between MARVEL and DC.
DC has all powerful gods and MARVEL has flawed humans, and that includes THOR…a freakin’ god!!!

SpiderScooby: That’s a tough call.
I think I agree for the most part.

Right.
But I’m mainly talking about what they stand for.
They are often potrayed with having similar values.
If it wasn’t for the man out of time aspect, I would say Cap wouldn’t be that interesting.

ThatScoobyDoom: While they do both stand for the same values, I still think Cap could be interesting without the man out of time gimmick solely for the fact that he isn’t all powerful.

On a human level, his story is more interesting.
He’s enhanced, yes, but even without the serum he was willing to do whatever it took to pitch in and help out knowing full well he could be hurt.

With Superman, being an alien that has pretty much always had powers, we’ll never really know what he would have been like.
Sure, there are stories like on Smallville where they take his powers away and shit but he never had to grow up knowing the taste of his own blood because some scumbag bully would beat his ass on a daily basis.
Ya know?

SpiderScooby: I don’t know… that’s the primary reason Cap’s story is interesting.
Personally, Superman is more fascinating to me (depending on the story of course).

Do you like the 1940’s setting?

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ThatScoobyDoom: Don’t get me wrong, I’m not slamming Superman now or ever, but he is often boring and hard to get right.

Loved it!
And I’m not the type that likes war movies and shit like that.
But it was the perfect place to set it and it helped to make the MCU bigger and richer, deeper history than just Odin fighting along humans 200-300 years ago.

You?

SpiderScooby: Maybe it’s because I’ve never read a Captain America comic.
He’s not a character that ever really interested me outside of the movies and cartoons.

Absolutely.
I just love the idea of a superhero period piece.
I think they pulled it off brillantly.
I’m glad they didn’t try to modernize it like those ferrible dirrct-to-video movies from the 70’s.

ThatScoobyDoom: Fair enough.

Right, and it made that storyline for Cap in Avengers that they kinda gutted work even better.
The man out of time visiting the places he knew from 70 years ago and seeing the differences.
I guess they touched on that in Winter Soldier?

I never saw those DTV’s…don’t think I want to either!
Yikes!

SpiderScooby: Right, I kinda wish they kept some of those deleted scenes in even though I see why they cut them.
They touch on it a little bit in Winter Solider.
There’s a nice little moment between Steve and a dying Peggy Carter.
But it really isn’t the focus of that movie.

Do yourself a favor and stay far, far away from those movies.

Just be glad Rogers isn’t riding around on a motorcyle throwing a plastic shield in these movies.

ThatScoobyDoom: Agreed.
Added more character, but aren’t necessary at all.
I think the deleted scenes on THOR were great too.

Kinda makes me wish they would put a little more focus on it, all of those scenes that lead to Times Square can’t be the only time they show us how truly out of his element he was.
I know from the trailers for Winter Soldier he did have a little trouble adjusting to the espionage and shit of today, but the world has changed far beyond that too.

Don’t worry brother, I have no interest in ’em!

Yeah, I much prefer the Harley/Vibrainium combo.

SpiderScooby: I don’t even remember the deleted scenes from THOR.

You are correct.
Cap doesn’t approve of what SHIELD is doing.
Of course, he ends up being right with the whole Hydra thing.

ThatScoobyDoom: There was one at the beginning of him throwing a bit of a hissy fit that I felt made his comeback even better.
And there was a short one where he took a mug to the diner that I felt was a great character scene showing how much he’d learned during his time on earth.

But was there anything beyond that?
You see older folks now bitching because everybody today does what I’m doing right now, staring at a phone screen.
Anything like that, any disappointment or comment on how the world has changed for him?

SpiderScooby: I only remember the deleted scenes from Iron Man and Avengers.

I’ve only seen Winter Solider twice, but I don’t think there was anything specifically like what you’re saying.

ThatScoobyDoom: That kinda sucks.
Perfect opportunity for it, maybe even to inject a little humor.

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That’s gonna rap it up for this Typecast, next time I get SpiderScooby we’ll cover Avengers and some of the smaller bits of the MCU.

Please go check out ScoobyFan.Net, it’s a great site that I’ve been a part of since I found it.
It has alot of really helpful posts and features to help you collect all of the Scooby Cartoons and Movies available.

Be sure to check out Ross/SpiderScooby’s other site RossStuartMedia.com, he’ll have a review of Marvel’s recently released S.H.I.E.L.D. #1 comic up this week and soon he’ll review Marvel’s Star Wars #1.

Also, follow him on twitter @ScoobyFanDotNet.

Until next time, thanks for reading.

Typecast #3 Revenge Of The Fitz

After saying we’d do it in previous Typecasts…FINALLY! THE FITZ HAS COME BACK! TO TALK PREQUELS!

This time around The Dark Lord of the Fitz starts sharing his experiences leading up to, and after, Episode I when suddenly Star Wars fandom had a bombshell dropped in our laps, read on and you’ll find out exactly what we thought of the trailer.

As always, his parts of the conversation appear with his twitter account, @Fitzman73, in red and link to his podcast Just Jump To The End.

This conversation appears just as it was had, warts & spelling mistakes intact just to maintain the honesty of the whole thing.

ThatScoobyDoom: Alright, so we established our first go round that you were a bit sad when the credits rolled on Jedi because you thought the adventures were over…but to paraphrase a certain old Jedi “there is another”.

When did the first serious rumblings of Prequels shine light on those dark days?

@Fitzman73: There was always some rumor floating around even as far back as Jedi that new movies were coming.
Of course in those day pre internet the “rumor mill” was just some kid who heard from some kid who heard from some kid etc, etc.

But the first time I remember people really getting excited was about 1997 when the Special Editions hit the theaters.
It was obvious to everyone that this was a prelude to more Star Wars movies.
Testing the waters to see how much interest there still was (lots) and something for ILM to practice their new digital toolbox on.
I wanna say it was right around then that we got the first solid confirmation straight from Lucas’ mouth that yes he was working on a script for what would become Episode I.
I think there was also some news about prepoduction work being done as well, maquettes, concept drawings, etc.

That was still very very early internet so getting news was way more difficult than it is now. Even by the time of episode II, you were seeing big time spoilers being leaked on the internet, but 97, 98, 99, forget about it.
You had to read Star Wars Insider to get any news.

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It wasn’t until very close to the actual release of the film that I even saw pictures of the cast in costume.
I think the trailer dropped and basically destroyed the internet.
Mother fuck a Kim Kardashian ass, the ep I trailer broke the internet.
It was dial up too. 56k.
It would take hours to download the 2 minute trailer.
Unless you were one of the 10 richest men in the world and actually had DSL. Lol.

But after that trailer dropped, then the marketing insanity began.

ThatScoobyDoom: So by 97 you guys knew they were finally happening after almost 2 years of near nothingness?
What was that like for you?

Would you know of their was any truth to the story that Weird Al wrote The Saga Begins based completely on the internet rumors or did he get a peek from Lucasfilm?

What was Insider like back then?

Hours to DL 2 minutes?
Sounds almost like me with my shitty throttled net now.

@Fitzman73: It was exciting, but like I said you only got news in dribs and drabs, so it wasn’t like the almost constant state of anticipation you have these days with ep 7.
You’d hear a new piece of news and be super excited for a day or two and then nothing for awhile and the excitement would go away until the next bit of news or the next magazine photo or whatever.

But once the marketing started it was inescapable.
It was everywhere you looked.
TV, stores, magazines, everywhere.
That’s when the excitement really started to build, when it was no longer rumors or bits of story coming out but actual carded action figures, vinyl figures, taco bell toys, all that shit.

Actually, I’ll give you an example of how it was for me.
There was such a ridiculous demand for the trailer (it was attached to Meet Joe Black and there was a big problem of people sneaking in just to see the trailer) that they actually showed it after the 10 o’clock news one night.
I was at worked but taped it (with a VCR naturally).
I got home from work well after midnight and the first thing I did was play that tape.
It was the first time I’d gotten to see it, and when those gungans came walking out of the swamp I actually got choked up.
I wore that tape out in a few days.

I think that Weird Al song came out way after the movie so I think he wrote it based on the movie.

The Insider was really cool back then.
They had a lot of cool interviews and behind the scenes stuff that you couldn’t find just anywhere.
I actually have all of them still from when I subscribed.

ThatScoobyDoom: That must have been maddening!
Knowing how big of a fan you are, how did you deal with the lack of…well, anything?

See, not being a fan back then, I don’t really remember seeing it everywhere.
I mean, we have some models and shit from Ep I that we only got because the vendor at the flea market couldn’t sell ’em.
So we got ’em almost for free.

I’ve heard alot from alot of folks about that trailer on Meet Joe Black.
Lots of folks bought tickets just to see it and left which is fuckin’ nuts to me.

I can’t remember when Running With Scissors came out but I could have sworn that song dropped around the same time or soon after.
Did that song crank your engine any?

Oh shit son!
You ever go through those when you need a nostalgia shoot?

@Fitzman73: Oh it was a sickening amount of merch and food tie ins.
Just absolutely obscene.
There will never be a marketing blitz like that for another movie.

I can’t imagine anyone not seeing this shit all over.
How old were you back then?
Maybe it was more of an age thing?

Or maybe I just have a skewed perspective since I was actively seeking a lot of this stuff out.
I don’t think it’s just me though.

I worked at Blockbuster at the time too and this was the first time we ever got merch in stock that had a street date, meaning it couldn’t be put out or sold until a specific date.
Of course the shipment came when I was working, alone as usual, and I was shitting myself over all the cool vinyl figures.
In fact I was so distracted I didn’t notice all the packing tape all over the boxes that said DO NOT SELL BEFORE XXXXX.
I put ALL that shit out for sale immediately.
Store manager wasn’t happy.
But I didn’t know any better at the time.
I had to pull it all off the shelf and box it back up.
Of course I stashed the 12″ vinyl Darth Maul for myself.

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ThatScoobyDoom: And as we’ve said previously, keep in mind you’re talking about a movie that was technically an indie movie.
Until recently, the biggest independent franchise in history.

It was May of ’99, right?
I’d just turned 8 a week or 2 before.
I can honestly say, if not for this kid Tim (not What’s Your Name? Timmy for those wondering) that I went to school with, I’d have had very little knowledge of Phantom Menace at all.

I mean, if that was me now, I’d have dug through and bought all the figs I wanted no matter what the fuck the street date was.

@Fitzman73: Yeah May 99, very soon after Columbine.
I remember there was all this anticipation and buildup to the premiere and then right before you had this great explosive nerdgasm we were slapped in the face with cold reality.
It was so close in fact that the day it premiered I remember watching George Lucas getting interviewed on Today or one of those morning shows and actually get sandbagged and have to defend violence in his movies.
He was like look these movies are fucking cartoons.
There’s no blood, no bullets.
It’s a completely made up fantasy world.
It was really ridiculous of them to try and work that into what was obviously supposed to be a light “entertainment” segment.

And he had to deal with that BEFORE the accusations that he was using racist stereotypes in the film.
Thinking back, he really took it up the ass when epsiode 1 debuted.
Can you imagine?
All the work and design and planning that went into that movie and then you find yourself maligned in the press when you finally get to show it to people?
Jesus, I can’t believe be pushed on actually.

That’s too bad you weren’t into it at the time you were the perfect age for it.
When did you finally watch it?

ThatScoobyDoom: See, it’s shit like that that kinda crushed one of my childhood dreams.
I think it came from being a Superman fan, but when I was a kid I wanted to be a Reporter/Journalist/Interviewer.
Shit like that just disgusted me and kinda turned me against the idea.
I fuckin’ HATE ambush journalism and people in that business who take low blows like that.

Yeah, I never understood the “racism” claims with Gunray, Jar-Jar, and shit.
Didn’t Watto even catch some hell?
I’ve never understood how using Asian or so called Black accents is offensive but it’s okay to do a Waspy affectation or English accent.
I guess it’s around that time when the world started changing into pussholes about ethnicity and shit.

Clearly he has that artists drive to share a story, I can’t think of any other reason why he’d get reamed constantly and be like “fuck it, lets make another”.
Ya know?

Well, I’d seen bits and pieces of all 6 over the years.
I did see the OT on VHS when I was somewhere between 4-7 and just thought it was beyond boring, I can remember falling asleep during the Speederbike chase in Jedi.
But the first time I saw Ep I start to finish would hafta be sometime in very late ’08 to mid ’09.
I saw Menace and was instantly hooked.

@Fitzman73: Wow.
Fell asleep huh?
That’s crazy talk to me.
It’s also unusual at least from a popular opinion perspective that it was Episode I that got you hooked on Star Wars and not the OT.
I’m sure that’s a dagger in the heart of many so-called fans.

Yeah I guess the elephant in the Episode I room is Jar Jar.
I acknowledge that he was abrasive at times and a little too over the top, but I don’t get all the hate.
In fact I think he has one of the most inpactful scenes in the whole movie when he has that heart to heart with Amidala on Coruscant that opens her eyes to what they need to do to win their battle.
You’re meant to realize this guy is clumsy and naive but maybe not as dumb as he appears.
That was supposed to be a real character moment for him but I don’t think anyone was really paying attention by that point.
I wish he would’ve had a little bit less of a comic relief role in the final battle.
It probably would’ve helped his character’s mini-arc.

The backlash definitely didn’t help his future development either.
And in some ways I think George caving in to the criticism and reducing Jar Jar’s role in the rest of the PT actually contributed to the rest of the PT being weaker than he probably intended.
What I mean is, I think he had to retool a lot of the rest of the trilogy to fix the fact that one of the main characters was now getting scrapped.
I can’t wait until Rinzler does a comprehensive making of for the PT.

ThatScoobyDoom: Well, actually, if I’m completely honest, the movies had nothing to do with me getting hooked on Star Wars.
Star Wars Battlefront II is what really got me interested.
I saw it for $15 at Walmart at the start of December 2008 and got it for Christmas.
I figured it’s only $15, I won’t be too disappointed if it sucks.

The other thing that really hooked me in was those Family Guy episodes, and that is why I think George Lucas/Lucasfilm/Disney own Seth Macfarlane a HUGE debt of gratitude!
Those episodes were fuckin’ amazing!

I have a history of getting into franchises through weird ways. Scooby-Doo for instance, I became a fan of that through these 60-70 page chapter books that James Gelsey wrote.

But yeah, I feel asleep…but in fairness, I was young and a child of the 90’s.
Like I said in the first Typecast, when my cousin first tried getting us too watch it I was like “screw a Star War, I can watch a Batman, Superman, Spider-Man, or X-Men cartoon.” ya know?
In the 90’s I had way better options.
And lets face it, while I love the OT, those movies are slow when compared to those 90’s action cartoons.
I just wasn’t at a point where I could slow down and watch them, I had to grow up as a movie fan and get to the point where I could watch them.

See the thing about Jar Jar, and the whole Saga, that people need too realize is that A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, and Return Of The Jedi were not made as kids movies, no matter how much Lucas or anybody else wants to retcon history, they are not
George was making movies for HIMSELF!
FACT!
There is no debate here, he was.
When he made Phantom Menace that was clearly intended as a kids movie, he made that so that the folks that loved the first 3 would grow up and say “I loved those, I hope my kids do.” and instead he go tarred and feathered for it.
Is Jar Jar annoying?
Of course!
But it is clear George had a plan for him, and you’re right, he got scared and abandoned it.

And ya know what, I think that may be the only reason Jar Jar was the one to give Palpatine the final round of power.
That probably had nothing to do with his original plan but he figured “fuck it, they hate this guy anyway…lets give ’em a real reason to despise him.”, which is sad because, as we saw on The Clone Wars, Jar Jar can be a really cool character.

@Fitzman73: Yeah, Clone Wars did a ton of good for the prequel films.
It really did help flesh out a lot of the things that fall short in the movies, like characterization and chemistry between the leads.

ThatScoobyDoom: So, Episode I is coming, your excitement is building…did you get the soundtrack before you saw the movie?

@Fitzman73: I did.
And like everyone who got it I read the track listing and was like what in the actual fuck?
Because as I’m sure you know, major spoiler, probably THE major spoiler of the whole movie is given away right there in on the back of the CD.
Why on earth they named a track “Qui-Gonn’s Noble End” and released it before the film is beyond me. Lol.

What I remember being more blown away by was the video for Duel Of the Fates when it debuted on MTV.
That was huge and gave me goosebumps.
The first time you got a new Star Wars theme (not counting the new celebration music at the end of RotJ Special Edition, which imo was kinda lame) in 16 years.
And it was the first time you got to see footage from episode 1 married to music from the film.
The trailer didn’t use new music I don’t think, only existint OT music arranged to fit.

ThatScoobyDoom: That’s where I was leading you. Lol
That is something that is nuts to me, why the hell they’d spoil one of the biggest movies of all time on a goddamn disc jacket made it mind blowningly stupid, compounded by the fact that they had so much secrecy surrounding it up until that point.
I can understand releasing a novel a week or 2 early and that spoiling it but that was nothing short of stupidity.

I don’t know the video that you’re talking about, but that song is…just wow.
Simply fucking amazing.
I get goosebumps just listening to that song today, so you must have been out of your fuckin’ mind.

How long was it before the movie that the soundtrack dropped?

@Fitzman73: Yeah it was crazy, definitely not where you’d expect a spoiler.
Although later they did the same thing with AotC and RotS via action figures.
AotC Anakin had a removable arm I think and RotS Anakin came with Dooku’s saber.
So yeah it’s all top secret until a week or two before the movie opens and then the spoiler floodgates open.

I wanna say it was at LEAST two weeks before the movie came out that the soundtrack dropped.
I know the video came first and I wanna say that was way before like a month maybe?
Whatever it was it felt like ages.

ThatScoobyDoom: I don’t think RotS would have been a movie to worry about spoilers for me, mostly because ***SPOILERS*** Anakin is gonna hit the fuckin’ iceberg. Lol
Everybody knew he was going to be Vader, not much else to spoil there.
That movie was just about closing the book.

Damn, that makes the load even bigger the longer it was before the movie.

So you know going in that Qui-Gon is gonna eat it, did that temper your excitement any?
Or where you still blinded by the stary wars?

@Fitzman73: No not really, in fact on first viewing I was surprised when he died, it completely caught me off guard.
I had totally forgotten that it would happen at some point.

Holy shit.
I just went and watched the Duel of the Fates video, I forgot how LONG it is and how much footage is shown and also how mucb awesome behind the scenes stuff is in there almost half of it is all “making of” footage.

Treat yourself:
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xn7ldo_star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace-duel-of-the-fates-music-video_shortfilms

ThatScoobyDoom: Really?
Just so caught up in the movie you forgot?

Can’t watch it right now, but I believe you.
I do love that song though.

@Fitzman73: Yeah no lie, when Maul get him I was like oh shit!
I remember feeling like a real dope for being surprised.
Of course the other surprise is that a few seconds after that, Maul gets diced, which I 100% did not see coming.
His face was on EEEEEEVVVERYTHING.
I couldn’t believe he got “killed” in the first movie.
Every one that I knew just assumed he was going to be the new Vader for the prequel trilogy.

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ThatScoobyDoom: I have noticed now, looking back, that he was kinda billed as the next big thing.

You think Lucas ever regretted killing him off?
Of everything in the Prequels, and that movie specifically, he was the one thing everybody loved!

@Fitzman73: Oh absolutely.
I think he’s actually been quoted as admitting that killing him off was a mistake.
Which would be a rare admission on his part.
He usually doesn’t publicly second guess himself.

Trying not to spoil anything for anyone, but I think what Lucas put in the Clone Wars animated series worked great and really did satisfy my fan boy blue balls for Darth Maul.
He allowed himself a second bite at that apple.

ThatScoobyDoom: And for good reason, that would be blood in the water.
I didn’t know he’d that before though.

I don’t know all of the details, but it sounded sorta similar to that old comic where he came back.

But if you want, feel free to spoil it.
It’s been out long enough and I wouldn’t mind knowing.

@Fitzman73: Well, I won’t give you all the details or his eventual fate by the end of the series, but it involves Sith Witches, his brother from Dathomir, and a garbage collection system. Lol.

But you’re right it is like that comic where he ends up with robot legs.
Some of his rebirth is a little cheezy but overall it works and Sam Witwer does a fine Maul voice.
Basically Maul wants revenge for being abandoned by his master and for being taken out of the game literally by Obi Wan.
So yes, there are a couple of rematches.

ThatScoobyDoom: *sing songy* I just got a little hard!
That sounds ssssssssssssoooooooooooooooooooo fuckin’ good.

Witwer is fuckin’ awesome too! Dude definitely knows his shit.

Also, you’re nothing but a goddamn tease!

Okay, getting back on track, clearly you saw Episode I in the theater…I already know the answer but it’s so fuckin’ fanboy, tell us how many times you saw it.

@Fitzman73: Before I tell you my number can I confess something first?

I was initially left feeling kinda empty after that first viewing.
It’s crazy now but I really did leave the theater thinking what the fuck where is the euphoria I was expecting?
Yeah the movie was not exactly what I expected based on the buildup and all the footage I’d seen, it was kind of a bipolar experience silly and corny one minute, exciting the next, then kinda slow and super serious.
But it was Star Wars why wasn’t I just in a fucking diabetic coma from the sweetness of a new Star Wars movie?

And that’s when I realized it’s never going to be exactly the same as what I felt in 1983.
It doesn’t matter what they put on the screen, I was not the same 10 year old kid that went to see Jedi.
I’d had 16 years of growth and life experiences in between.
It was unfair for me to expect that movie to give me the same feelings that I had as a kid.
I was an adult essentially watching a movie whose main demographic I had already aged out of.

When I finally realized that this movie wasn’t made to appeal to a 26 year old me but to appeal to a 10 year old me, and that it was ok to not like some parts while loving others, the movie got better and better with every viewing.

I think that was the same for all the first gen fans.
Expectations were unreasonably high, and when the movie fell short or weren’t exactly what we wanted it took a little adjusting.
Some people adjusted and began to enjoy the prequels for what they were and some people were Patton Oswalt.

My number was 12 by the way.
In every conceivable venue around town and out of town.

ThatScoobyDoom: And you see, the flip side of that is that is it had been exactly what you had wanted, dreamed, and expected is that you still would have been disappointed.
You wouldn’t have been surprised.
You might have been disappointed that he didn’t do something different than what you, a 26 year old dude that isn’t paid to write, would have.
I think it would take the magic away a little if you could predict what he was going to put out.

But fuck man, that is truly eloquent.

It looks like the extremely vocal minority is like Patton Oswald.
It’s really fuckin’ sad too.

12 times, 12 times is just mind blowning for me as I’ve never seen a movie in a theater more than once.
I’ve never been able to go to the theater much either.
But while I say that’s mind blowning I also find it to be a beautiful thing.
You were a little let down but the power of fuckin’ Star Wars compelled you to come to terms with that, get over it, and go see the fuckin’ thing 11 more times.
That is astounding.

Did you go opening day/weekend?

@Fitzman73: Well it’s not as impressive as it sounds at first, I would say a third of those were at the dollar show. Lol.

I don’t usually get to/want to go to the movies but I will always turn out for Star Wars.

And guess what?
That statement just made me realize my number isn’t twelve at all!
IT’S THIRTEEN!
I forgot I got to see Ep I in 3D when it was out awhile back.
Verdict, meh.
Some of the 3D was cool but I think it looked better in 2D.
Plus I think the theater fucked up the projection.

The only Star Wars I’ve missed theatrically is the Clone Wars movie.
I still regret it, but it couldn’t be helped.
Our first kid was only a few months old and time/money was an issue.

Oh, did I go opening day for ep I?
Yes I did.
First movie I ever purchased advance tickets online for.
2nd show opening day at Des Peres Cine (closest one doing presales).
I remember the lines and how small the screen looked.
We ended up in one of the smaller theaters it felt like a big private screening room.
I think at least half of their screens were showing it.

ThatScoobyDoom: That is still impressive to me.

I love going to the movies, I still cherish the experiences seeing the 2 Scooby-Doo movies on the big screen.
I know I use this word alot in these conversations, but it is an appropriate descriptive, but it’s magical.
It really is.

I wanted to go but had nobody to take me, I think Ronnies had it in 2D.
3D to me has always been a stupid gimmick, it was in the 50’s, it was in the 70’s, and it is today.
I see no value in it.

I was gonna ask you if you saw that.
I wanna touch on that with you a little bit later if we have room for it, so hold onto that thought.

What was that crowd like?

@Fitzman73: The crowds were relatively normal.
Lotta kids.
Not a ton of dressing up that I can remember.
Of course the more times I saw it, the fewer other people I saw.
By the end of the summer it was literally me and a buddy in a theater completely alone.
It was pretty cool.

The only reason I was able to go that often was a perfect storm of life conditions.
I was still living at home, working part time at the video store, and going to college 4 hours a day.
It was technical college so you were in one class for 4 hours a day.
That particular class I got finished with all the work sometimes 2 hours in advance so you could just leave.
I chose to go across the street on days I didn’t have to work and hit the 10 or 11 am show.

ThatScoobyDoom: So in your experience it wasn’t really like Fanboys showed it to be?

I’d have loved being alone in the theater seeing that, that’s almost how it was when I saw Green Lantern.

That just sounds like great fuckin’ fun.
Suffer through school and then BOOM Star Wars.

@Fitzman73: Yeah it was great motivation to get work done and not dick off for 4 hours like everyone else did.

No it wasn’t exactly like Fanboys for me, but didn’t they go to a midnight show?
Those are way different.

And what was cool about the empty theater was it was the last time I was at the old Creve Coeur cinema before they tore it down and made the new one.
That was where I saw both Star Wars and Empire along with tons of others.
Still looked the same, same crappy auditorium seats everything.
Fitting that Ep I was my final visit.

ThatScoobyDoom: Of course.
Only better motivation is pussy.

True, but I’d have thought that weekend would have been batshit crazy.
The start of a new trilogy?
Come on now!
That is worth a bit of excitement.

Wow.

@Fitzman73: Oh it was crazy as far as lines and crowds and shit but I guess not as nutty as you might think.
Of course the negative reviews and overall backlash came pretty fast so I think that threw a wet blanket on things a little.

ThatScoobyDoom: Of course, sadly.

So what was your first reaction when you got over that feeling of being slightly let down, so your second reaction?
What really stuck out for you?

@Fitzman73: All of act 3, from the moment those doors open and Maul is revealed to end credits.
You can shit on Episode I all you want but I challenge even the most ardent PT hater to say that climax was anything less than breathtaking.
The sets, the score, the pacing, the choreography.
All amazing.
For a long time it truly was what kept me coming back.
That and the gorgeous Natalie Portman.

Over time I got more invested in the rest of the plot and everything.
I really think that part of my feeling let down was that there’s just so much happening so quickly that you miss a lot the first time through so it feels like “is that it?” when it’s over, but the more you watch it the more things you pick up on and you start to see there’s really a ton of shit going on.

Really there’s only one part of that entire movie that gets a yawn from me.
It’s the goodbye sequence between Anakin and his mom.
The rest of the movie I felt was pretty well paced.

ThatScoobyDoom: Agreed on all fronts.
That Dual Bladed Lightsaber lights and every single goddamn time I perk up.
It’s a real “oh fuck! Shits on.” moment!
And agreed on Portman…stunning.

That is a great point to.
I’ll bring it to an arena I’m very familiar with to perfectly illustrate your point.
Go watch any episode of Scooby-Doo Where Are You and then watch any episode of Scooby-Doo: Mystery Incorporated.
After WAY, SD:MI is an assault on your senses.
The pace is break neck with so many levels of story that it’s overwhelming!
But if you watch SD:MI then WAY, WAY is so slow and boring.
The pace is snail like with so many pauses that it’s crazy.
Both are 22 minute shows.

That shows how different thing were back then, you could do simplistic stories and be fine.
Now?
Audiences are so sophisticated that you have to make these vast layered stories that almost demand repeat viewings.

Yeah, where he talks to her, walks away, then runs back?
That and the opening with Gunray kinda bore me a bit, but not too much.

How was the podrace on a big screen?

@Fitzman73: The podrace was awesome on the big screen.
The sound was amazing.
That’s another part of the flick that some people hate on and say is boring or too long.
I never understood that either.
That whole sequence was a special effects orgy.

What was your take on it when you saw it?

ThatScoobyDoom: Well, and you know I love it, but they sorta have a point.
It is long, and kinda a pointless we to get to the “wesa free” moment for Anakin.

First time I saw it I came so hard my pants are still kinda wet.
I loved it, the fuckin’ weird Gauze headed sniper freaks (Tusken Raiders), that pasty lanky white chick (Aurra Sing), dodging those goddamn rock formations at lightning speed, the fuckin’ sound!
Oh my god!
Orgy is an understandment!
It was like fuckin’ Caligula mixed with the hardest of hardcore Orgy porns in my face holes.

That whole stretch of the movie is a perfect example of the achievements we talked about last time that George Lucas pushed us towards.

I sorta said it last time, but I’ll say it yet again, without George Lucas and Star Wars, I don’t think we’d have Harry Potter, Lord Of The Rings, Avengers, Spider-Man, or any of these huge blockbusters we’ve gotten in the last 15 years or so.
Or at least not at the same level that we did get them.

@Fitzman73: One thing I never thought really worked as well as it should was the Amidala/Padme duality with the body doubles and all that shit.
They kinda screwed the pooch a little on that by saying way in advance that Portman was playing the queen.
It was obvious to anyone who knew of her that she was also Padme, that wasn’t fooling anyone. Lol.
They shouldn’t have billed her that way and just given a bogus name for the actress playing Amidala.
That way the deception and reveal would’ve maybe been more believable.

ThatScoobyDoom: While I didn’t know that they revealed it before hand, I can say for sure I agree.
Maybe they should have listed her as Padme Naberrie and called Keira Knightley Queen Amidala.
That’s almost as bad as the soundtrack gaff.

I think it still works, but that is strange.

@Fitzman73: Yeah I think she was listed as Padme Amidalla.
So later when they would refer to her as Padme Naberrie I was like what the fuck where’d that name come from?

I mean it still kinda works, it’s just weird.

Actually I think Amidalla might be her middle name.
Seriously.

ThatScoobyDoom: As far as I remember, Amidala is a name she took on after she was elected Queen of Naboo.
It’s kinda how Sith chose a new name, the rulers of Naboo chose a Regal name that sticks with them for life.

@Fitzman73: Yeah that makes sense.
They must all have to end in “la”. AmidaLA, JamiLA.

Not to derail the prequel trilogy discussion but when we were talking about the OT we neglected to bring up a very infamous piece of Star Wars history that happened back then.
The anniversary just past which made me remember we didn’t talk about it.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, I guess that would have to be true.
I wonder if there is any documented proof of the Naboo process anywhere.

Oh boy…The Holiday Special?

@Fitzman73: Didn’t they touch on it a little in that Plaguis book?
Now that you say that I think the ep 1 novelization might explain some of it in a little more detail than the film.
Which, in general to anyone who is on the fence or straight up hates the PT, should really check out the novelizations, they really help give more depth to the films.
Especially the episode 3 novel.
Really good.

Oh yeah.
Holiday Special.
We can put a pin in that I just wanted to bring it up.

ThatScoobyDoom: I don’t remember much about the process of the Throne of Naboo being touched in either of those.
I remember more of the political side being drilled.
Now, I guess you could say since the Throne is an elected position it is political but…

No no, lets go into it.
I’m gonna guess you saw it when it aired?

@Fitzman73: I did.
Only aired one time and somehow I saw it.
And it actually does fit this prequel discussion because to all the people who think the PT was terrible and a horrific cash grabbing rape of their childhood, go take a look at the Holiday Special and get some perspective on what “bad Star Wars” looks like.

It was so bizarre that for over a decade I thought I must have imagined or dreamt it.

Have you ever seen it?

ThatScoobyDoom: Sorry, you just misspoke.
I must correct you.
You didn’t THINK you imagined or dreamt it…you HOPED you imagined or dreamt it.

I saw like 10 minutes of it on youtube once and that was far more than I needed to see.

Bad is an understatement.
It’s just astounding how bad it is.
I wonder if when he sold to Disney George had a stipulation about that special in there.
Something like they have to wait until he dies before they can release it, because we both know it’s well known he doesn’t want it seen.

And as bad as it is…I would like to see it get a high quality release.
Just as a historical document.

@Fitzman73: 10 minutes?
That’s it?
Oh dude, you’re missing out.
It’s barely getting up to speed by that point.

Did you at least watch the cool yet bizarre Boba Fett animated sequence?

ThatScoobyDoom: It was far too bad to stick with it, the quality was shit to.
It was like watching through a snow storm.

I think I did, but this was 5 years ago so my memory is fuzzy.

I guess I should give it another go sometime.

@Fitzman73: In all seriousness if you never get to watch it, it’s not that big of a loss. Lol.
I do recommend finding the Boba Fett short though.

Did you ever watch the Droids or Ewoks cartoons?
Much less terrible than the Holiday Special obviously but still a good example of Star Wars done worse than the PT.
Oh, and the Ewoks live action tv movies. Stinky.

My point is, Phantom Menace and the PT, for all it’s flaws, is Shakespeare compared to every attempt at Star Wars from 1983 to 1999.

ThatScoobyDoom: I know it’s not a loss, but I’ve heard the Fett segment is great by comparison to the rest of it.

I was just going to ask you about those.
No, the only Star Wars show I’ve watched was TCW.
But that’s mostly because everything else is out of print and basically unavailable.
Ewoks, Droids, and the Clone Wars micro series, I’ve never seen.

Based solely on what I’ve seen of the Holiday Special, I can totally see that being true.

@Fitzman73: The Droids and Ewoks cartoons are totally watchable.
Typical 80s cartoons.
But they are the reason why so many people groaned when Lucasfilm said hey guys we’re making the new Star Wars cartoon called Clone Wars.
Luckily we didn’t have anything to worry about.

Oh and the micro series was ok.
It was no Clone Wars and I definitely don’t consider it G-Level Canon.
Oddly enough, I really did not like the voice acting for Obi Wan and Yoda in that micro series, but then those se 2 actors went on to the Filoni series and I really loved the jobs they did on those characters.
Such is the pickiness of the fanboy huh?

ThatScoobyDoom: I’d love to see those old Toons for sure.
Every once in awhile I see somebody on twitter post a pic of one of those Ewok “movies” or what ever that they put out on DVD a few years ago.

Didn’t Paul Dini work on those?
I know he worked on alot of those old 80’s cartoons.

A lot of people slobber on the balls of that series solely because of that Genndy dude that was behind it.

Really?
Did they do anything different vocally between the 2 series that made the difference for you?

@Fitzman73: I think he might have.
I know on the first Dini episode of Fatman he talks about working on He-Man, seems like he said Ewoks too.

Fun fact, Stewart Copeland of the Police wrote the Droids theme song.
It’s weird but actually not that bad.

http://youtu.be/S7XCe2XorcY

Yeah I know some people love it.
But aesthetically and storytelling wise it just never did anything for me.
It’s garbage compared to the non-micro series.

I think James Arnold Taylor has actually talked about changes made to Obi Wan’s voice, maybe loosened it up a bit, but probably more than anything they just didn’t sound exact to me and it took me awhile to get used to them.
Probably if I watched those now I would love they’re performances but at the time I was like what the fuck is this?

By the way here’s a picture of my Holiday Special DVD.

image

ThatScoobyDoom: That’s where I remember hearing it.

That is so much 80’s in 1 minute that it’s nuts.
Just…wow…not bad or anything, but hehehehe.

I can’t speak to it being shit or quality.

I didn’t even know JAT voiced Obi-Wan until you said he did.
I know he said he added a bit of Lennon into the voice and that he felt it worked.
I agree.

@Fitzman73: Yeah JAT (Obi Wan), Tom Kane (Yoda), and Corey Burton (Dooku) all reprise their micro series roles in the Filoni series.
And here’s another little nugget that I just learned on last week’s Rebel Force Radio when they talked to Matt Lanter (Filoni’s fantastic Anakin).
He was not the first person cast as Anakin.
Matt Lucas (micro series Anakin) recorded Anakin dialog for like 5 episodes including the feature before they shitcanned him and went a different direction (less Hayden Christianson, more strong and manly) and cast Matt Lanter.
He has to do ADR over all of Matt Lucas’ dialog and match that performance which is one reason he starts out a little flat and develops into a much more dynamic and powerful character as the series progressed.

ThatScoobyDoom: Wait…WHAT???
Why did I not know this?
I know, much like Tim Curry as Joker, they’ll never see the light of day, but I want to hear those recordings!

@Fitzman73: Yeah apparently that was real unexpected revelation.
Even the RFR hosts were like wait WHAT!?
They’d never heard that either.
Pretty cool scoop.

ThatScoobyDoom: Very much so!

Lol
Getting back on track, did we talk about the Lightsaber combat and your first reaction to that yet?

@Fitzman73: Not yet I don’t think.

I was blown away by it.
Right off the bat at the very top of the movie you’ve got Qui-Gonn using his saber to melt a fucking blast door.
So right away I was like ok this is going to be a different level of Jedi in this movie.

In fact I think GL even said in the lead up to the movie that these are Jedi at the top of their game, not a cyborg, an old man, and an untrained farmboy.
And he was not kidding.
I was blown away by the ferocity and athleticism those fights had.
Not just a fencing match.

ThatScoobyDoom: That was my reaction too, the fights in the OT were just strikes.
This shit was…whoa…flips, blocks, force pushes/pulls, and all kinds of dynamic motion.

I think I remember reading that Lucas quote.

For you true fans that had spent 20 years with the OT…I can’t even begin to imagine what you guys were thinking.
Blown away doesn’t seem apt.
Cause that just kept building until it reached the crescendo of the Maul fight on Naboo.

That fight between Qui-Gon and Maul on Tatooine, while short, was great.

@Fitzman73: I was initially kinda let down by the fight on Tatooine.
I guess because it happened so fast and you really couldn’t see much with all the sand blowing and swirling capes and shit.
It wasn’t until the end when I realized oh THAT’S why the first fight was just a tease.
It was so they didn’t tip you off to the crazy shit that was going to happen during the big fight.

ThatScoobyDoom: Exactly.
And it is stylistic as a motherfucker.

So credits roll, you said you felt a little empty and that it was a bit of a bipolar experience, did it immediately make you excited for the 2nd installment of the saga or did that come later?

@Fitzman73: Seeing Jake Loyd at the end with the padawan cut definitely made me excited for the next installment.
Of course at that time nobody knew (or even speculated that I can remember) that they were going to jump 10 years into the future and Jake Loyd wouldn’t return as Anakin.
Obviously a lot of people were happy about that though.
That poor kid took a critical beating for his performance.
Some of it justified, some not.
But really I blame GL for any shortcomings in performances by the actors is the PT.
At the risk of soundiny heretical, for all of his brilliance as a visual storyteller, idea man, and filmaking visionary, he’s really not a great directoy of human beings.
Just look at the 4 Star Wars films he’s directed.
All visually stunning but not that well acted dedpite A list casts.
Empire, not directed by him, the best acting performances of the Saga.
Not shitting on the man, just saying nobody can be awesome at everything and for him it appears that directing human beings is a weakness.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’ll give you that.
I think he might think in a big spectacle film like Star Wars who’s gonna give a shit about performances.
That is just wild speculation on mypart, but it seems to fit.

When did you guys finally learn that Episode II was going to take place 10 years after I?

@Fitzman73: OAHonestly I can’t remember.
Probably pretty soon after that summer was over.
I remember GL dropping information a little at a time.
The one thing that sticks out the most is when he revealed oh by the way Boba Fett will be in the next one.
Everybody lost their shit.
I remember somebody made a fan trailer early on that had a set of blast doors opening to reveal an army of Boba Fetts.
People were convinced it would be Jedi vs. Mandolorians and that we were going to see the big battle on Concord Dawn where the Jedi wiped out the Mandolorians.
It even went so far as people speculating that the battle would destroy the environment of that planet so much that it would end up turning into the planet we’d later know as Dagobah.

It was for episode II that they also introduced “Hyperspace”, which was a subscription based service on the official site where you could get behind the scenes videos and photos and shit of the ep 2 production.
It was pretty ridiculous and nobody I knew actually paid for it.

ThatScoobyDoom: That Jedi Vs army of Mandalorians thing sounds better than the actual movie.

People’s speculation always fascinates me, the strange things folks come up with based on next to nothing.
I myself am guilty of it.

Is/was that the official fan club?

@Fitzman73: Oh speculation is fun as hell, it’s been part of the game since Empire.
I was totally on board with the Jedi/Mando thing.
I’m not sure where that was originally mentioned, I think maybe it’s a real quick mention in the Empire novelization but that concept has been around forever and people have been dying to get more information on it.
I think that might actually have been one of the no-go zones for the EU leading to more speculation that we’d someday see it.
But so far, nope.

Hyperspace wasn’t the fan club I don’t think.
That was different.
Hyperspace just gave you online access to stuff that even the Insider didn’t have.
So in essence it was even MORE inside that the fan club magazine.

They used to give you free teases every month called Behind the Mask or something like that.
It was usually juat a picture with no explanation or a very goofy caption.
I used to check for those constantly.
The best one was the first look you got at Jango. The caption was “Singing in the rain” and it was Tem Morrison in full Jango armor and helmet on a green screen set (just the actual green screen, no background added) posing with a rainbow colored umbrella like he was Fred Astaire.
It was amazing.
I shit my pants when I saw that silver armor.
I was like holy fucking shit that’s what Boba Fett’s armor used to look like!

(SPOILERS Clone Wars debunks that speculation).

Little did anyone realize that Jango would pull Maul and go out like a bitch.

ThatScoobyDoom: It was never shown in novels, I know that.
But I seem to remember seeing a cover of a comic that may have mentioned.
Also, didn’t Duchess Satine mention something about it in those Season 2 Clone Wars eps?

Wow.
You think we’ll get teases of shit like that this time?
We’ve not as of yet, other than the 2 Force For Change sneak peeks.

Is that really going out like a bitch though?
I mean, Maul?
Maybe.
He got gutted by a Padawan.
But Fett?
Mace was a fully trained and seasoned Jedi.

@Fitzman73: Yeah I guess I didn’t mean like I bitch, just that he went out way too soon.
I guess he served his story purposes, but still it was a bummer that he was another one and done character.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, is sucks that George created these awesome characters but killed ’em off in one go…but it’s better to leave you wanting more than to run ’em into the ground until you hate them.
Grevious was another cool character he killed quickly.
But thanks to The Clone Wars, we got to hear more from all 3 in a way.

Okay, fuck all this prequel nonsense, we can come back to it later or next time.

Episode VII trailer dropped today, what did you think???

@Fitzman73: I loved it.
It was way short and told you nearly nothing (duh, teaser) but it was great.
Everyone was jizzing over the Falcon but honestly I can’t get the image of those X-wings blasting across the water.
So badass.

And thank christ those new Stormtrooper helmets play on screen.
When I saw the leaked images of just the helmet designs I was kinda like eww I don’t know.
But seeing them on screen and attached to living breathing troopers, man they look tits.

Really the only thing I was “huh?” about was that weird ball droid.
I’m sure I’ll love it in the film, I think it’s Dasy Ridley’s version of “R2-D2” so it will probably have a cool personality and it’s design will make sense, but just in those few frames it looked really silly to me.
Star Wars has a real believable feel to all of its gadgets and that design just really looked like someone saying “know what we’ve never seen? An astromech head that rolls around on a ball”.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’m fine with it telling nothing, far to many trailers spoil the movie.
I hope all of the trailers are like this.

image

Both made my pants tight.
The camera work is what makes the Falcon bit better for me.
But fuck yeah, those X-Wings and the Rebel logo.
Fuck you!
Fuck him!
Fuck her!
Fuck all those dipshits in the back!
Take all my goddamn money and put that shit in my motherfuckin’ eye parts!

Yeah, I still can’t say that I’m 100% sold on them yet.
That trooper part looks fucked up though, like some shit is about to go way down.
I was kinda stunned to see that Trooper with his helmet off, then I checked @StarWars and saw a tweet that said the Clones were phased out soon after The Clone Wars…it kinda made sense then.
I wanna know of that dude is gonna be in deep poodoo for having his helmet off!

That didn’t even register for me as something to pick apart.
That feels in the same vein as those little trucks in the OT.
The boxy speeder bike stuck out more so.

It was also kinda shocking to look at the actors they showed and have no clue who they were.
I’d have loved to see somebody we know, even if it was just 3PO.

@Fitzman73: See I spoiled myself pre-teaser so I knew a lot of what was going to happen, but to SEE it was a beautiful thing.
I know (supposedly) what some of those shots were and what is happening but I won’t spoil anything.

Yeah the clones are long gone by this point.
And as you’ll see as you get into Rebels (free full eps on youtube everybody) they’re long gone 5 years before the OT.
The Empire is recruiting locals.
This also explains why the clones were so badass during the Clone Wars but stormtroopers suck a dick and can’t hit the broad side of a barn.
They’re not the same people at all.

And yeah, John Boyega is in deep shit

ThatScoobyDoom: See, I’ve remain sorta spoiler free due to my shitty internet being throttled.
Nothing wants to load so I can’t really read a fuckin’ thing even though I want to.

Yeah, once I saw that tweet it made sense.
Everybody was questioning the ethics of clones and, Sith or not, Anakin wasn’t completely into the idea from the jump so I can totally believe they are gone…though I do think some may have stuck around til the OT, but that’s just me.

It does indeed.
Clones trained from birth to be warriors would be sure shots whilst local yokels are just that.
It definetly looks like he has some splaining to do!

My question though…the Stormtroopers still exist, the Rebellion still exists…does this mean a new Empire has risen up in the aftermath of Lord Sidious?

@Fitzman73: From what I gather it sounds like maybe it never really went away.
Of course what we see with the PT and the 2 animated series is the line between good and bad is pretty thin.

I grew up believing the Empire was this new thing that displaced the Republic and was immediately shitty to everyone in the Galaxy.
But now, when you see Palpatine’s plan unfold it turns that notion a little bit upside down.

When you really look at it, the Empire is still just the Republic shrouded and controlled by the dark side.
When Sidious took over and declared the “Empire”, he kept all of the Republic’s infrastructure.
The army, navy, the political machine, everything right down to the Chancellor’s Guards.
Hell even the Senate was intact all the way up to episode 4.
It’s basically the same shit only Palpatine replaces all the key players with dummies that will just follow his orders and not question all the evil shit he’s doing (one might say weak minded individuals easily influenced and controlled by a powerful force user).

It took years for many systems to feel the boot of the Empire.
Yes there were rebel systems from the start, but the majority were duped by Palpatine and plenty of systems never came around to seeing the truth.
Really what you see in the OT is the reverse of what happens in the PT.
It’s still a galactic civil war with the sides somewhat switched.

So I think what we might see is that after Palpatine’s death, you do see sort of a New Republic emerge and reclaim their infrastructure that WAS the Empire.
So the stormtroopers you’re seeing may not be “Empire” troopers.

Of course I have no idea really but I could see how those troopers could be “good”-ish.
Although I’ve heard other things that make me think they’re not much and if that rumor is true then what you’re seeing as those troopers are leaving the transport is a prelude to some very bad shit happening.

That’s what makes this teaser so tantalizing.
Add this to the bits of information being leaked, and you come up with countless scenarios that might be happening.

ThatScoobyDoom: But there is no denying that the planets that were under Republic control once the Empire was declared got worse.
Just from the pilot Rebels (Spark Of Rebellion is the pilot, don’t let them tell you different) you can see that.

Those dickheads stealing that fruit from that old dude on Lothal?
The Empire gave assholes like that license to do whatever thet wanted without consequence.
Under Republic rule they did face some repercussions based solely on how Anakin treated the Troops under his command.
He built them up when they did well but it seems he did call them out if they went off book.
So there was a slight change in S.O.P. when the change happened.

I’d hope if there was a new Republic that they’d want to change the image a bit.
Once the oppression of Palpatine was out of the picture, you’d think some of these fuckin’ simpletons under his control would have woken up and had some regret.
Not all of them would, obviously, but some.
Like Mas Amedda, the hell happened to that dude?

Even without knowing spoilers, it brings up many cool interesting scenarios.
Just has me trying to figure out what the hell is going on!

@Fitzman73: I don’t know, Palpatine was pretty careful about the people he surrounded himself with.
And event if they did start to change their mind, at the first sign of them “waking” up he would’ve just killed them.
Which, maybe that’s where Mas Amedda went. Lol.

Plus as you’ll see, he pretty much puts an Imperial recruiting system in place that systematically weeds out the strongest applicants and eliminates them so that there is very little chance of insurrection.
Even if they did want to, most of the Imperials that actually make the cut are too cowardly and inept to be effective.
They’re JUST effective enough to keep a boot on the throat of the average citizen.
Palpatine clearly doesn’t want his underlings to be a threat to him.
I’m sure in his arrogance he sees himself as more than powerful enough to defend his own position and the rest of the galaxy?
Well, here are some straw soldiers to give them the illusion that the “Empire” exists when in fact it’s really just one man holding it all together.

Like I said though, what I’ve heard is that even though the Emperor was defeated, the war didn’t actually end.
So my guess is what we’ll see is a galaxy that’s still divided and either still in a civil war or maybe there’s an uneasy truce?
I don’t know.
I’m sure there were plenty of worlds that prospered under the Empire that maybe wouldn’t be so quick to roll over for the “rebels” even after Palpatine’s death.

Just so many possibilities it’s crazy.

But here again this is the kind of speculation that set a lot of people up for disappointment during the PT.
All these wild ideas about what would happen and when what was delivered did not meet or exceed the speculation, people got bummed.
Gotta be careful not to get into that same situation with the ST.

ThatScoobyDoom: You need to quit teasing shit and just spill, it’s maddening!
Lol Makes sense he would chose the weak, if he gathered the strong they probably would try to usurp him and bring down the whole operation.

Arrogance is a distinctly Sith trait, all of them think they’re the best thing for the galaxy.
Bane, Plaguis, and Sidious were all the same…everybody but Vader of course.
Vader was pretty centered on just protecting the ones he loved, even with Luke later on.

I’m safe from that level of disappointment.
I know none of my weird, wacky, and stupid theories will ever end up on the big screen.
I’ll not think JJ or Kathleen a useless piece of shit for doing what they want like the world did with George.

@Fitzman73: Not a whole lot to spill, there’s basically a whole episode that shows how they recruit local kids almost like the Hitler Youth and put them through all these tests to figure out who the best of the best are and those guys get to visit the Inquisitor and not be heard from again.
So…..

So far from the tiny bits we see in the teaser, I think the franchise is in very good hands.
We could all be fooled but I don’t think so.
JJ is a confessed Star Wars super fan, much more so that Star Trek, and he made a very good Trek reboot with the first flick, and a pretty good followup (I have opinions not suitable for this SW discussion…) so I was excited to see what he would do from the minute he was announced, and even more so after seeing a few shots.

FYI in case you hadn’t heard yet, the voice in that trailer is confirmed to be Andy Serkis.
So now I’m even more interested to know what his role (or ROLES, there are rumors he’s doing multiple) will be in the movie.

ThatScoobyDoom: …Sidious really likes to kill kids, huh?

Once again, I gotta say I whole heartedly agree about JJ.
I was never a big Trek fan because it was always kinda slow and boring for me and JJ, a dude I’ve never really paid attention too, got me interested.
I didn’t see the 2nd one, but the 1st was fuckin’ amazing!
I’ve been thinking about rewatching it since the trailer dropped.

I did see that.
I heard a rumor that he was hired on in much the same capacity as he was for Avengers: Age Of Ultron.
He has a part but he’s also there to help with some behind the scenes type stuff.
BUT, that could very well be bullshit based on that interview that came out last week where he said that about Age Of Ultron.

@Fitzman73: Well the jury is out on what happens to those kids that get identified as best of the best.
It’s surely death or worse, but so far they haven’t done anything but insinuate bad things happen.

ThatScoobyDoom: And to think, people were bitching that Rebels was just gonna be super happy fun time hour with robot and old man.

So, do you have a theory as to who old triple blades might be?

@Fitzman73: I’m gonna guess Adam Driver.
I have heard rumblings that his character is obsessed with Sith history and that he possibly collects Sith artifacts.
I believe that saber is a Sith relic.
That’s why it’s so crazy looking.

ThatScoobyDoom: …which one is Adam Driver again?

Yeah, since you said that, I realized it does have a bit in common with the dark saber from those first Mandalorian episodes of The Clone Wars.
Specifically, the unchecked electricity running up and down the blade.
So yeah, I can see it being old as shit.

@Fitzman73: I’d never heard of him before but this is him.

image

Looks like he’d he a great bad guy.

I’ve also heard that he’s possibly from a noble family.
Noble family.
Interested in Sith history.
Dooku relative perhaps?

ThatScoobyDoom: OH, That dude!
Other than Lupeta Nyongo, I have no clue who any of them new folks are.

Ooo, wouldn’t it be fucked up if he was Dooku’s kid or, more likely, grandkid?
That’d for damn sure give him a great vendetta against the Skywalker family.

@Fitzman73: I think there’s a better than 50/50 chance of that.

Something RFR brought up on their emergency trailer reaction podcast they recorded and dropped on Friday is what the narrator actually is saying which I admit I completely missed.
Or at least didn’t put the meaning together.
He says there’s been an awakening, and then we get some shots from the movie and towards the end he says The Dark Side………AND the Light.
At first I didn’t realize the 2 sentences were part of the same thought but they are.
It almost sounds like he and the person he’s talking to knew about the Dark side waking up, but he’s revealing that the same thing has happened on the light side.

So I thought that was interesting given the rumors of Luke’s situation.

ThatScoobyDoom: I had an idea before about maybe them following a Kenobi kid, I thought that might be an interesting twist.
We know from Clone Wars that even though the order frowns on it, and he did later, Obi-Wan has had physical relationships in the past so it’s not out of the realm of possibility.
But the major flaw with that is you run the risk of not being able to let go of the past if you just have the kids of the original characters running around, even though I really think in that case it does make sense.

I kinda figured it all ran together, that seems to be the trend of late, chop a speech up throughout a trailer, look at Age Of Ultron.

@Fitzman73: That was a rumor floating around.
Haven’t heard it recently so it must’ve just been bullshit, but early on there was talk that one of the new cast was somehow related to Obi Wan.
Did you ever read that Kenobi novel?
I know it’s not canon but they made it totally believable that he could hook up with a Tatooine local.

Which then makes you wonder, is Daisy Ridley’s character actually the granddaughter of Obi Wan Kenobi?
Because even though JJ has denied it said it’s some “new” desert planet, we all know that’s fucking Tatooine she lives on.

ThatScoobyDoom: I didn’t get to read that one, it looked/sounded good.
I was refering more to the fact that we know he had a relationship with Satine years before.
Now, from what I heard, they probably didn’t have a kid together…but it establishes a pattern of behavior he may have revisted once the order fell.

Yeah, I was just talking about that with somebody else.
If it’s definetly NOT Tatooine then they’re stupid, why do a tan desert planet when Tatooine exists?
Makes no sense what so ever.

@Fitzman73: Right there’s Satine, but in the Clone Wars they kind of act like yeah he had this relationship but he knows he shouldn’t have, etc, and that he knows he can’t become attached like that again, but then in that Kenobi novel he has a very brief and mild romance with a local Tatooine woman while in exile.
They don’t actually fuck, but like what you said it establishes or in this case, reinforces a pattern of behavior that he’s clearly down to clown.
So that would be crazy if he at some point unwittingly knocked someone up and that’s why Daisy Ridley will end up being strong in the Force, cuz she’s a descendant of Kenobi.

Yeah and like RFR pointed out, you don’t use a shot of those dunes as THE FIRST IMAGE in the teaser if it’s some new planet.
Plus JJ has already pulled this “it’s not xyz” during the run up to Star Trek Into Darkness, and he was straight up lying the whole time so credibility is lacking.

ThatScoobyDoom: Exactly.
And like I said, once the order fell there is no saying he stuck to the old rules.
Who the fuck would punish him?
It’s not like Yoda is gonna break his exile just to go to Tatooine and go “Wet your dick must not get.
In your pants you must keep it, hmmm.” He was sent to do some training and learn to communicate with Qui-Gon…a known thorn in the side of the council members…so I’m sure, while he was watchful of falling to the dark side, he felt a little bit more free to indulge in the pleasures of life.

Very much so.
If they were going to do a sand planet and not use Tatooine it would be wise to change the terrain, even if just a little bit, like the Maker did with Geonosis.

@Fitzman73: Soccer ball droid, yes or no?

ThatScoobyDoom: As to whether or not I like it?
I had zero problem with it, I don’t see the big uproar about it.
I had to have the podracer parts in the background of that shot pointed out to me though.

Speaking realistically though, I’d think that would be a bad droid to have in sand though.
Would have a worse time then even poor R2 had.

@Fitzman73: I thought it looked weird, kind of jarring.
Like how does that even work?
Star Wars has always tried to maintain a functional believability in it’s machinery, and that one to me was like hmm.
I’m not in an uproar like a lot of people seem to be, I’m more like I accept this weird thing and expect I will grow to like it.
I’m sure once you see it interact with actors and you see its personality, it won’t seem so weird, but for a split second clip it’s a little bit WTF?

ThatScoobyDoom: See, I saw it and my thought was it must have some low strength magnetic something or other that makes that Astromech head float along in a semi-stable way.

That is my big problem with the internet, I really don’t understand the nitpicky bullshit over shit like 2 fuckin’ pimp looking mini blades on a lightsaber, a goddamn ball droid, and…a fuckin’ black dude!!!
The internet must shit themselves with anger every time Billy Dee and Sam Jackson show the fuck up to make a movie better.

@Fitzman73: Did you see that article I sent you eariler that claims Boba Fett will make a brief appearance in ep7?

http://www.bobafettfanclub.com/news/film-tv/episode-7-rumor-boba-fett-appearance-mentioned-in-possible-spoilerman-leak/

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, I didn’t go to the board post though.
Makes sense to me, I believe I remember Disney officially saying that that one story of Boba escaping the Sarlacc pit was canon…or maybe they just said he did indeed escape the pit, but I know they addressed it.

Soo…ya think he’ll be pissed? Lol

@Fitzman73: After 30 years? I guess it depends on how long it took him to escape. Lol.

This rumor to me sounds like bullshit, but I could be wrong.
I didn’t read any of that guy’s other supposed ep7 details that were posted, but this one kinda sounds like he’s pulling our collective fanboy chain.
Maybe if it is indeed a brief appearance, maybe a background shot or something.

ThatScoobyDoom: Well, I’d hope he didn’t get out the next day.
I like the idea of him being stuck for a while in the pit then being stuck on the surface of Tatooine itself struggling to find work, fighting and scratching to get back on top of his game so he can get revenge.

That would be a bit of a let down, no?
The equivalent of homeboy just pops up in the frame lifts his helmet, winks, and sinks away.

I think it’d kinda be nice to see a bit of a chase film between Han and Boba.

@Fitzman73: Well with the planned spinoff films you might get that.
Especially since with the added scene in the Special Edition, you know Jabba already had him employed so he was probably the first to be put on his tail after ep4.

I don’t think he got out that day, but I’m just thinking like even if he got out after 10 years, it takes him 20 years to get back to where he can hit Solo?
Seems like he would’ve had chances before then.
I don’t know.
It’ll be cool to see him though.

ThatScoobyDoom: Do you think they’ll do a Boba spin-off?
And if so, you think they’ll get the actor that played Jango to come back?

I don’t know about that, it is a huge galaxy with alot of planets after all.
It may take him some time to get back on his feet.
Tatooine is in the outer rim so they could be long gone and I don’t know if the Holonet is still up and running but who knows if they cover Han, Luke, Leia, Chewie, and Lando’s accomplishments.
It may not be easy to find them if their faces aren’t plastered all over the galaxy, ya know?

Update on that Ball droid, I was watching the newest episode of The Comlink on Youtube and somebody on the panel said that was based on an old Ralph McQuarrie design.
So much like alot of the shit in The Clone Wars, that droid has deep roots.

@Fitzman73: Yeah I heard that too about the ball droid.
Rebels is full of Mcquarrie stuff too.
Great designs.

Boba Fett spinoff is 100% happening.
I think that was mentioned when Disney first took over.
Depends on when the spinoff takes place as to which actor.
If it happens during ST era, they’d almost have to go with Tem Morrison.
If it happens between ep3 and 4, it’s possible they could go with Daniel Logan.
Although have you ever heard the theory that’s floating around from somewhere that the OT Boba Fett is not the Jango Clone but a completely different person who at some point killed the clone and took over under the helmet?

ThatScoobyDoom: I wonder how much was Lucas describing shit to him versus George just saying “give me space shit, Ralph” either way, it is great.
I kinda noticed that from the few episodes I saw on the Star Wars site.

That was all rumor, at this point, as far as I know, nothing official is known about the characters of the spin-offs yet.

I have heard that theory, and I’m totally conflicted on it.
If that’s the case, why did George even bother using Boba in the PT? If it was some random it kinda makes it pointless.

Did you ever read that Boba Fett Bloodlines comic?

@Fitzman73: Yeah I pretty much shit on that theory.
It would be a helluva shocking twist but makes no real logical sense.

I think, judging by the Rinzler book and other things I’ve read, I think Lucas didn’t really know what he wanted visually, just vague ideas and then would tell the artists come up with shit and he’d either approve it or make a suggest or just say nope try again.

I think, especially with the first film, he just let Ralph go nuts and what he came up with really defined the look and feel of Star Wars.
Without his original few concept paintings they never would’ve even gotten a studio to bite.
So really I’ve always seen Star Wars as having 3 fathers.
George Lucas, the mind.
Ralph McQuarrie, the body.
And John Williams, the soul.

Oh and no, never did read that Bloodline comic.

ThatScoobyDoom: And a shock just to shock is rarely good.

That is very believable, way back then there was nothing like it.
He seemed to have a more defined vision in the prequels from the footage I’ve seen in making of docs and shit.

Uh, while I understand what you mean…I can’t really agree with that. It’s like the big creator credit debate in comics.
To me, the one that comes up with the actual idea is the sole creator.
Full stop.
Any artist, artists, or creators that come after are contributers at best.

So, for me, Lucas is the Father and Williams and McQuarrie are sorta the Uncles of Star Wars.

Find the first volume of it, I don’t remember all the details of it but I remember thinking that would make a fuckin’ pimp Boba flick.

@Fitzman73: Did you ever read the old Marvel comics where there were either one or two guys dressed just like Boba Fett.
They were other “Mandolorians”.
It’s so silly to look back at now.
I’m not sure but I don’t think either one was Jodo Kast who I think at some point supposedly stole Fett’s armor and was impersonating him or something.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’ve not really dug into all the comics yet, especially the old ones.
I was trying to get all the Dark Horse omnibus’ but only ended up with almost half.
I wanted to get ’em all and just burn through ’em in a month or two.

I basically all I’ve read comic wise is alot of the Knights Of The Old Republic comic, the Ep I and II comics, Boba Fett: Bloodlines, Knight Errant, some Clone Wars stuff, and this fuckin’ wicked Darth Maul mini I got in trade form.

@Fitzman73: The old Marvel comics are fucking BEE-ZAR.
Like so many comics in the 70s they were not afraid to create flamboyant ludicrous characters.
It both feels totally like episode 4 and not AT ALLLLLL like Star Wars at the same time.
Such a strange run.

I was hooked on Star Wars Legacy for awhile but then it just lost me.
I’m really looking forward to the Marvel relaunch next month.
Hope it’s good.
Looks good.
Has great talent attached.

So I guess that means you never read any of “The Star Wars” mini series that was out last year?
The one where they take the original 1st draft of the script and make a comic out of it?
Very interesting alternative.
Not at all the same as what made it to the screen but it’s cool to see names and character ideas being used in different ways.
I only read the first couple issues.
Storywise I found it a bit boring.

ThatScoobyDoom: That’s what I always hear, what was it about that period where everybody just did weird creative shit?
Isn’t that where that rabbit dude came from?

Never read Legacy but I hear it was good.
The new Marvel shit looks amazing!
A new series or mini launching almost every month will be great!
I hope they do a Rebels tie-in.

I have the first 2 or 3 issues of it, never read ’em, but had to stop buying comics in March so I missed a good portion of it.
Sounded weird and different, which I like.
Woulda been cool to get it all.

Did you get any of the Adventures mini graphic novels?

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This is the Maul Mini cover and a splash page.

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It came out in 2000 and is set just before the battle of Naboo.

@Fitzman73: What was it about the 70s?
Drugs.
Oh and not having to censor your weirdness just to appease some faceless corporate overlords who know nothing about art.

Yeah that was where the Rabbit dude came from.
But it’s also where Luke devised a two saber fighting style with one long and one short saber in order to beat some crazy chick with an electrified whip or some shit that was impervious to a regular lightsaber.
So you know, gotta take the cool with the bad and/or weird.

Never read any of the Adventure ones.
Were they recent?
Any good?

Jan Duursema is badass.
I think she did the Legacy comics too.
Great SW artist.

ThatScoobyDoom: 50’s, 60’s, & 70’s everything was fucked up and weird.
I respect shit like that.

Short saber?
Kinda like the dagger that was a part of that Dual Bladed Lightsaber from a few years back…that I got!
Yeah, they love them some super whips in Star Wars fiction. Lol

About 2008-2012 is when they came out, I think I have almost all of them.
They look fun.
There are Luke, Leia, Han, Chewie, and Vader one’s.
Lucas Books and Dark Horse also did Clone Wars and Indy mini’s around the same time, I know the Clone Wars ones are good.

This proves it!
Just a beautifully detailed book from cover to cover.

@Fitzman73: Holy shit dude I just fell down an EU rabbit hole I was not expecting.
That chick with the force whip?
Apparently they brought her into EU novels in a big way.
Did you read the novels where Jacen Solo goes dark?
Apparently she’s the one that turns him in a big fuck you to the Skywalkers.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Wars_96:_Duel_With_a_Dark_Lady

ThatScoobyDoom: I’m no where near that part of the saga, I’m just a dick hair shy of the Episode III novel.

Still reading Triple Zero, boring as fuck. Lol

@Fitzman73: What’s triple zero?

ThatScoobyDoom: The second Republic Commando novel I was reading when we started this Typecast oh…2 weeks ago?
I’ve been reading it for a month (which is a long time for me) but I must press on.

But at least I’m learning Mandalorian from it, Ner Vod*.

*My Brother

@Fitzman73: Sounds like a real page turner. Like I said about the Marvel comics, gotta take the good with the bad I guess.

ThatScoobyDoom: Very much so.

I really like how Traviss has built her own little world within the world but, and this even goes for the Clone Wars novel she wrote, there is something about her style that bores me.
And her chapters are so fuckin’ loooooonnnnng!
A boring book can zip by for me if it has short chapters and a great one gets slowed way down by long chapters.

@Fitzman73: Totally off topic, but you know what books are really good and surprisingly fast reads?
The original Ian Fleming Bond novels.
Very short.
To the point.
No fucking around.
Yet still really interesting and detailed.
Not sure how he managed it, but they’re pretty brilliant.
Not a wasted word.

ThatScoobyDoom: I asked about ’em at Barnes & Noble once and the fuckin’ register jockey said they don’t print them anymore which I know is bullshit but I’ve still never seen one.

I have that Devil May Care one that came out a few years ago and it was pretty good.
And that’s coming from a dude that is not nearly the worlds biggest Bond fan.

@Fitzman73: Actually he might’ve been right at the time.
The versions that I was getting were discontinued before I finished the set and then were “out of print” for a short time before they released an updated printing with new cover art after Skyfall was in theaters.
I’m sure you can get them now.
Plus they’ve been reprinted to death so I’ll bet you might stumble on some in a used shop some day.

ThatScoobyDoom: I don’t know, I’ve seen all kinds of collections online but never one in person.
I run into assholes like that at stores alot.

I can’t remember if I told this in a typecast or not, but I went looking for that Mallrats script book once at Boarders and the fuckheads told me it’s 100% illegal to print scripts in any form for the public…keep in mind I had the Firefly guides with scripts printed in then and one of the Family Guy special edition volumes with a mini script.
Just lazy bitches.

@Fitzman73: They told you that? Lol.
What a fucktard.
Yeah it’s illegal for HIM to print it maybe.
Dummies.

ThatScoobyDoom: I always seem to get the laziest, dumbest motherfucker no matter what store I go too.

Oh, back to the trailer, before I forget it, did you see that video from ABC where they broke it down and told a few behind the scenes bits, mostly just confirming shit?

@Fitzman73: No I didn’t, anything noteworthy?
I find mainstream sources hard to stomach when it comes to this stuff.
I guess because I’m months ahead of them. Lol.

ThatScoobyDoom: They tend to be unbearably sugary too.
They confirmed that the lightsaber sound at the end is indeed Luke’s.
I haven’t seen about else say that.

@Fitzman73: Ah!
Yes I forgot about that.
You’re right I saw that cited on a Star Wars site.
I didn’t realize that’s where it came from.
And it’s specifically the ep 4/5 sound too not the green Jedi saber he builds.
So leads me to wonder whether the rumor about that saber and a certain body part are true?

ThatScoobyDoom: That’s what I was gonna ask you about.

Do we know specifically where the second Death Star was when it was destroyed, just to know where that saber may have been propelled by the explosion?

Also, and kinda sorta related, how many of the old EU planets do you think survived the Legends purge?

@Fitzman73: I think until they do something that contradicts it, all the planets could conceivably be out there still.
Galaxy is a big place.

Well his green saber would’ve no doubt been atomized when the Death Star blew up.
His blue saber he lost along with his hand on Cloud City.
That’s the one they’re talking about based on rumors and now that saber sound in the trailer.
The ignition of the blue one sounds very different than the green one.
So theoretically his hand and saber would’ve fell down the airshaft and out the bottom of Cloud City shortly before he himself did.
So that’s where it would’ve started its 30 year journey from.

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Now to follow where I think you’re going with this, I got a galaxy map and looked at where Bespin is compared to Tatooine, but according to this Insider map, they’re actually not that close.
Obviously that doesn’t take into consideration whether they have separate orbits, etc, that might bring them closer to each other at certain times, and it is just a movie, I was just hoping to have an A-HA moment for you.

ThatScoobyDoom: It’s shit like that that’ll bug me if they toss it.
I can handle the stories being non-canon, but why chuck out all that variety?
The hard work is already done, no need to redo shit when it’s there.

Oh…I though they were saying it was the other one.
Cause other wise it doesn’t really make much sense, that blade and hand woulda probably just fell down a chute and to the planet below Cloud City.
How would it be hurtling through space and land on another planet as that rumor stated?

Oh shit, I just remembered I have the Essential Star Wars Atlas around here somewhere.
Let me check that.

@Fitzman73: Yeah I don’t know, that’s why I originally rated that rumor bullshit, but seems like that saber is set to make an appearance somehow since it is that specific clip they chose to use in the trailer.
Too much of a coincidence to be unintentional.

ThatScoobyDoom: It’s all rather confusing really.

***WARNING, EXTREME NERDOM TO FOLLOW***

So I got out the Essential Atlas and if you look at this pic you’ll see Bespin is really near to Hoth just off the Corellian Trade Spine lane labled 3 on the left in the Greater Javin Sector.

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Tatooine is on the right within reach of Geonosis of the Corellian Run lane labeled in the Arkanis Sector.

This brings up a very interesting question… motherfuck twin moons, look how close they are, you think Geonosis is one of the “Moons” you see in the Tatooine sky?

It says here that Tatooine has 2 moons but again, look how close the 2 planets are, surely you’d see one from the other.
And based on rotational patterns you could maybe see all three from time to time.

@Fitzman73: You mean the 2 suns Tatoo I and Tatoo II?

I don’t think Geonosys would be a “moon”, they don’t give any other “moons” a name, but you’d definitely be able to see one from the other.

ThatScoobyDoom: This is the extremely nerdy part again, what with all the sciencey shit involved.

What I mean is, everybody says twin suns and twin moons and all that shit because you can see the Suns in the sky in those shots but sand, there for sand planets, reflect sun in a really harsh way.
Given that the 2 suns are different distances away from the planet, and how rotational patterns are, the suns probably wouldn’t stay next to each other like that all the time.
Wouldn’t it be a kinda cool if one of what we thought were twin suns was on occasion Geonosis?

@Fitzman73: I think there is a shot in ep2 where it’s dusk on Geonosys or maybe it’s Tatooine and you can see these giant moons or planets in the sky.
I need to go back and check on that.

ThatScoobyDoom: Is it bad that I’ve kinda blocked out most of that movie?

@Fitzman73: Nah not really.

ThatScoobyDoom: As boring as Episode IV is at times it is a million times better than Clones.
That movie…just something about it bores the living shit out of me except a few select bits and the last 45 minutes or so.

@Fitzman73: At the time it was cool though because it had “intrigue”, but yeah there’s not a lot there except really bad acting.
It pains me to admit how bad the dialog is in that movie and how poorly delivered it is.
Least believable romance ever.

ThatScoobyDoom: And we’ll leave it there for now, tease the tip and we’ll go balls deep in Clones next time.

@Fitzman73: #NoHomo

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You can hear Fitzman get even more nerdy on his podcast he does with his sister, Just Jump To The End, available at JJ2End.com
Be sure to follow the pod and him on twitter: @JJ2End and @Fitzman73

And one final thing, you can now show your support for Fitzman, Just Jump To The End, and TS-D/JA Productions with a whole slew of merch available at http://www.cafepress.com/justjumptotheend/11989577

Thanks for reading!

Typecast #1: A Galaxy Fitz Fitz Away…

This is an idea I’ve had for quite a few years but have never really been able to attempt before now.
The basic concept is that it’s a “print” podcast.
Since it’s not really feasible at this point for me to have a podcast of my own, this is the next best thing.
I hope to have a rotating stable of “guest hosts” to talk about whatever interests we may share, it’ll probably be mainly Movies, TV, Comics, or Books but who knows.

For this first “episode” my co-host is a dude I’ve come to look at as a Yoda like figure of sorts, minus the backwards ass talking.
On the tweeters, which by this point you must realize is far too big a part of my life, you’ll quickly see him as a big part of certain communities (not the bathroom-stall foot-tapping kind, at least not that I know of. No judgement!!!) of fandoms, like podcasts, comics, and (as you’re about to see) Star Wars, the Senator himself…Fitzman!

His parts of the conversation appear in Red and link to his podcast.
And away we go!

ThatScoobyDoom: So to start, do you remember the first time that you heard about Star Wars?

@Fitzman73: Yep. The first time I heard about it was from my older cousin.
I was probably 4 and he was maybe 6.
It was either 77 or 78.
I remember being at our grandma’s house in the backyard and he was trying to explain this movie he saw.
All I remember is him saying the words “Old Republic” and then I was lost.
I had no clue what he was talking about.

ThatScoobyDoom: So you’ve been there since the very beginning?
I think I remember the first time I heard about it, I was like ‘uh-huh, you know there’s cartoons we could be watching, right?’
When he was explaining it, did you perk up a bit or were you kinda like I was in the mid 90’s?

@Fitzman73: Oh I was watching plenty of cartoons.
Scooby-Doo, Superfriends, all that all stuff.
Yeah I’m an O.G. fan.
It’s been with me almost my entire life.
It’s actually hard to imagine life before that movie came out.
I definitely have pre-Star Wars memories but not many.

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Fitzman’s 1978 Halloween costume

But no, when he was explaining it to me I couldn’t have given less of a shit.
It was a little intriguing just because he was so enthusiastic about it but really I couldn’t follow what he was talking about and lost interest.
I mean the names and the situations he was describing I just couldn’t get my 4 year old head around you know?
Everybody today takes for granted all the stuff that happens in those original 3 films but holy shit in 1977 there had been nothing like EVER.
The universe and the mythology that Lucas created was way beyond anything that had come before.
So much so that it’s actually amazing to me that it ended up being so successful.
Everyone working on the movie was sure it would fail because it was just so ridiculous but somehow the complete opposite happened.

ThatScoobyDoom: I bet. From that age, it must be like ‘things I remember always being there: Mom, Dad, Star Wars, Santa…’.

I get that as well, my cousin was 16 or so and she tried explaining it and I was just confused about all of these wacky ass words she was making up.
She tried getting me to watch it and I wasn’t havin’ it.

So do you actually remember that very first time you sat and watched it?

@Fitzman73: Of course I do.
In more detail than I’m sure I should.

At first I didn’t even want to go. My dad said he wanted to take me but at the time I had this fear of movie theaters.
I’d only been to 1 or 2 by that time and I just remember them being loud and dark and I was not a fan.
He was trying to talk me into going but I just kept refusing until he gave up and said he’d see if my cousin would go with him instead.
That changed my mind.
I was immediately like no take me.
I remember the start of the movie and I remember it being so loud and ships going overhead and shit blowing up and lasers firing and all this noise and chaos.
I actually asked my dad to go have them turn the volume down.
Typical of my dad he was like I am not going to ask them to turn down the house volume. Lol.
In the end it was fine.
Once it quieted down I got sucked in and I was hooked.
I can remember that I kept calling them life savers instead of lightsabers.
Which I guess could be true, but I wasn’t thinking that way, it just sounded like that’s what they were saying.
I also have a vivid memory of Han kicking Chewie into the garbage chute and of C-3PO tossing dead jawas onto the fire.
When we got home I can remember my dad and I trying to explain the movie to my mom.
It was the first time I heard the word “sidekick”.
I thought my dad called Chewie that because he got kicked into the trash compactor.
Kids are so dumb.

ThatScoobyDoom: Were you one of the many that thought he was called Grandma Tarkin? Lol

After you saw it, was it like it was for Eric on The 70’s Show?

@Fitzman73: Not really.
If I had been Eric’s age at the time I’m not sure what my reaction to the movie would’ve been.
It always struck me as odd how obsessed he was about it.
I’m like dude you’re 17 and banging a hot red head why are you so into a movie? Lol.
That’s how a 17 year old might (and did) act in 1991 after they’ve stewed in Star Wars for the past 14 years.

But I was definitely into it immediately.
There wasn’t really that much to be obsessed with initially.
There was no home video so if you were obsessed with watching the movie you had to actually go somewhere and pay to watch it.
So I think it got to see it once in the theater and then, once at and a drive in.
We actually went to see Alice In Wonderland but I saw Star Wars on the other screen so I sat on the roof of the car and watched that with no sound instead.

Then as far as merch there wasn’t much in the beginning either.
It’s so common place now when movie comes out there’s immediately a flood a merch no matter how good or bad the movie is but back then that just didn’t happen.
They were like hey let’s make toys and everyone was like oh yeah right have fun with that.
So skeptical in fact that Lucas was able to work 100% ownership of the licensing rights into his deal.
Smart dude.
Everyone shit themselves when they saw the crazy amount of demand for licensed products.
All these companies were scrambling to get shit licensed and put out on shelves.
Imagine the first Christmas after the summer of Star Wars and really the only thing you could put under the tree was the novelization and a vinyl LP of the movie soundtrack. Crazy.

First figure I ever owned was a C-3PO.
I remember getting it at a drug store.
My mom was picking through them showing me the different ones.
There was a Luke and then an Obi Wan (that she referred to as Luke’s dad). I have no idea why I picked C-3PO but that was the start of my collection.

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A Pic from Fitzman’s collection

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, it seems George was the only one with any foresight what so ever.
He seemed to really feel, even back then, that the word “Galaxy” meant he could go in a million different directions.
He really is/was a man of vision, even if that vision changed as he was making it.

That brings up and interesting point, how did you feed the addiction back then?

As you said, there was no home video.
And even if there was, you had 1 movie so far, that’s not too great for keeping the love alive.
You had the MARVEL comic, and eventually you got Splinter Of The Minds Eye, Toys, the Droids series, the Ewoks series, and the Sequels. But it was a far cry from not where if you get a Star Wars itch you can devour 6 movies, the Micro-Series of Clone Wars, 6 Seasons of Filoni’s Clone Wars, and Hundreds of Comics, Novels, Audio Dramas, Podcasts, and now Rebels.

So what did you guys do?

@Fitzman73: Pretty much just obsessed over the Kenner toys.
Like you said there was pretty much just the toys and the Marvel comics.
I was still a bit too young for the novels and it wasn’t until about the time of Jedi that I saw my first Starlog magazine so the toys were where it was at.
To this day I chub up at the sight of carded Kenner figures.
Doesn’t even matter what character, could be the shittiest background character and I still get excited.

ThatScoobyDoom: Do you still have any of those old toys?

Do you remember your first novel?

@Fitzman73: Do I still have them? Who do you think you’re talking to?
Of course I do.
I can probably post pics some time.
Although last year I discovered something very disturbing.
I was looking through my vintage figures and noticed that the green skin of my gamorrean guard was turning grayish and sticky.
The plastic is starting to break down!
I was very sad about it.

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More of Fitzman’s collection

None of my old toys are in great shape except the later Power of the Force figures they put out after Jedi that came with the collector coins.
I was old enough by then that I didn’t play with them as much as just pose them and look at them so they aren’t too beat up.
I still have all my 12″ figures too. Of course none of the heroes have their clothes.
My sister had a habit of stripping their clothes off and either using them on her Barbies or just plain losing them.
I think Luke has pants a boot but Han is bare assed.
Luckily Boba Fett and Vader were molded plastic so they’re intact.
I remember having a dream one time as a kid that we found a 12″ Uncle Owen figure, is that weird or what?

The first novel I read (or tried to read) was the ROTJ novelization.
Although somehow I had a really beaten up copy of the Star Wars novelization that we got at a garage sale years before that.
I remember reading the Jedi book and the beginning where he’s building a new lightsaber.
I can’t remember is I actually finished it or not.
I doubt it, I was only 9.
The movie comic on the other hand, I read the shit out of that. (Still have that too by the way)

ThatScoobyDoom: Plastic breaks down? Huh, who’d uh thunk it.

Weird? No, that’s the sign of a true fan right there.
I used to have dreams of being in a book store and stumbling across a treasure trove of 20+ Scooby-Doo books, hell I even can conjure up some of the cover images for those dream books in my mind.
So I can totally understand that dream.

Okay, do you recall the first SW novel you read that you actually finished?

Were you getting the comic from the jump?

@Fitzman73: I definitely got each “treasury” edition comic of the movie from the jump.
But it wasn’t until Jedi that I was getting the monthly one whenever I saw one (don’t forget this was still the age before a lot of comic shops and you got your comics at the drugstore).

The first novel I finished was probably Heir to the Empire.
When that first came out it was like the second coming of Christ.
Years and years and years of no new Star Wars anything and suddenly the “sequel” to Jedi was coming out?
Got it immediately and devoured it.
I tried reading it again recently but honestly to me it doesn’t really hold up.
Not to mention so much of it has been contradicted and negated by G-Level Canon since then that while it’s fun to read, it more of a nostalgia trip like the very underrated Brian Daley Han Solo novels which are fun but downright silly when read with a modern eye.

Heir to the Empire was one of my first tastes of EU but I was never much of an EU guy.
It would get me shot in some circles but I’m glad the EU has been put to rest (kinda).

The big thing that helped me get through “The Dark Times”, 1985-1995, was when West End Games dropped the Star Wars RPG in 1987.
That was fantastic. Wasted many many hours playing that game and memorizing all the sourcebooks.
I miss that game.
Still have all the books though, in case you’re wondering. Lol.

ThatScoobyDoom: Do you still have all of those comics, singles and treasury?

As a dude that absolutely loves 90% of the books I’ve read, which is admittedly a rather small number, I’m loading my shotgun now.

I’m reading Republic Commando: Triple Zero now, I haven’t made it past Episode III, and I think most of these books are must read.
The Darth Bane Trilogy, almost all of the other Old Republic novels, The Clone Wars novels, simply put are fuckin’ astounding.
It’s really depressing to me that that shit had to be chucked out.
Being so far back, I don’t see why they couldn’t be made canon
Have strong feelings on that I do!

I’ve never gotten into RPG’s outside of console games and shit like that but I have heard a few say that was awesome.

Of course YOU do!

@Fitzman73: Yeah and I know there are tons of people who were super invested in the EU so I do feel bad for you guys but at least they didn’t just burn the EU to the ground and pretend it never existed, they just made it “Legends”.
Basically they just made those books alternate universe stories.

Yeah I still have all those comics. In fact I’ve recently gotten a few of them signed by the creators at conventions.
They’re all in terrible shape.

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Fitzman’s original copy of MARVEL’s Star Wars adaptation

ThatScoobyDoom: And honestly, in a way, that’s how I’ve looked at it from the start.
If I read something I don’t like, say Shatterpoint for instance, I can cut that from MY continuity.
If I read something that contradicts something else I read before I tend to pick the one I like best and throw that into MY continuity.

My only glimmer of hope with *grumble grumble* Legends is that they do seem open to folding some of that shit into the mix.

Aww, that’s cool.
Bad shape shows love, man.

So, when the credits rolled on Jedi, what did you feel?

@Fitzman73: Yeah I definitely have certain EU things that until contradicted by official canon are in MY canon.
Like the Darth Plaguis novel.
Really good and made so much sense and fit so well into the mythology that it seems like it should be official canon.

When the credits rolled on Jedi I actually remember feeling sad.
I remember specifically thinking this was THE END of something I loved so much.
To this day Jedi is my least favorite of the OT not because it’s a bad movie or the others are that much better, I just still get that feeling of “ending” when it’s over.
Like there go my friends that I won’t see any more.

Now obviously we ARE finally going to see them again which I cannot wait to see what’s up with them after all these years.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yes, that novel wove it’s way through the movies and the EU so perfectly.
Pulled everything together and added a depth that wasn’t needed at all but I welcomed with open arms!

That’s interesting, I guess because of the EU I never felt that.
Too me it was always just good-bye in that medium.
I had, and have, 100’s of adventures to look forward too with them so it never really phased me.
But since that was before the EU boom, it does make sense.

I don’t want to go too deep into the upcoming ST this time, but I was wondering if you saw that interview that’s in some of the novels from the mid-late 90’s where George said that he always intended to make 9 movies.
If you did, did that not give you hope for Han, Luke, and Leia returning to the big screen some day?

@Fitzman73: Yeah that 9 or 12 movie thing has been around forever, but remember we’re talking about 1983.
Most news or information anyone got was rumor or heresay.
It wasn’t until recently where you could easily find documented evidence that at least at one point he had envisioned several trilogies.
But all along GL has denied he ever said that and that there were only going to be 6 movies and surprise now there will be 9 and then even more non Lucas movies after that.
So yeah there was always this dream that we’d get more after Jedi, but after a decade passes and there are still no new Star Wars movies and in fact no toys in stores either, well, you lose hope.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah yeah, I remember reading an interview with him after Sith where somebody asked him about that interview in the novels and you could feel him squirming.
It was like “huh? Oh, uh…I misspoke!” and I was like “dude, I have mad respect for you…you didn’t fuckin’ misspeak, your ass has plans but just don’t feel up to it anymore.” Cause there is no way in hell that interview would have been published in an OFFICIAL Star Wars novel if he misspoke.

Well sir, hope springs eternal for that little 10 year old Fitzy. Just over a year away from Ep VII.
Is it safe too say you’ve done pitched a tent in your trousers in anticipation of seeing the band back together?

@Fitzman73: Yeah definitely.
I just hope they don’t do something really dumb with the characters.
There have been a few rumors circulating that I’m not crazy about but overall I like what I’m seeing and hearing.
The story treatments came from GL himself so I expect they’ll hold at least somewhat true to his vision of what happens following Jedi.

ThatScoobyDoom: I figured, me too. Lol

I know of what you speak, some shit that just had me like “…huh?” and thinking they couldn’t be that stupid.

I did hear that they had his treatments but decided to go another way.
If true, that disappoints me a bit.

@Fitzman73: Me too.
They did can the original writer who was picked by GL so who knows.
I mean they did replace him with Lawrence Kasdan, the guy who reworked the original Empire 1st draft and created probably the strongest Star Wars script ever, so on one hand he knows what he’s doing, but on the other hand I just hope they don’t go too dark or do anything that negates the Skywalker story which to me did and should conclude with Jedi. I’m glad the old characters are returning, but I feel like they should be supporting characters in the new trilogy and these new films really need to set up and explore a whole new set of characters.

And as we’re seeing now with Star Wars Rebels that’s something that’s not that hard to achieve.
That was always one of pet peeves about the EU, everything seemed to still revolve around the original core cast.
It’s like that’s cool and everything but I don’t need to see 60 year old Han Solo still saving the galaxy.
It just kinda cheapened the OT a little for me.
Kinda like Die Hard sequels.
How many times do you expect me to believe the same shit keeps happening to one person. Lol.

I always wanted the EU to move away from the central OT or even OT cast and introduce some new fresh characters and situations.
And I mean interesting characters not just a Han Solo proxy like Dash Rendar.
I’m sure there are some EU novels out there that did this but my memory is that most didnt.

ThatScoobyDoom: I whole heartedly agree.
How I go into most things these days is with a healthy dose of cautious optimism, I try not to get super excited because it only leads to disappointment.

I totally understand what you’re saying…but on the flip side…I’ve liked all of the Die Hard sequels so…

See, that right there is why I’m such a fan of The Old Republic era and all the Darth Bane shit.
Like Knight Errant, that was a fuckin’ amazing book and comic that I rarely hear folks mention.

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One of my favorite Star Wars novels

Those Coruscant Nights novels sound great too, I really hope to get into those in 2016.
So yeah, there are some books out there like that, but you do have to dig around a bit.

@Fitzman73: So what is that Knight Errant about?

ThatScoobyDoom: If I remember right it’s set like 20 years before Lord Bane came to power and instituted the Rule of Two.
So this Jedi, Kerra Holt, is stuck in Sith space trying to defend this planet against a batshit Sith Lord, Darth Daiman, who thinks he himself is a godlike figure.
He claims he created the universe a few times.

At that point, with all the Sith through the galaxy, there were alot of turf wars.
Daiman and Darth Odion are battling in this one pocket of the galaxy over this little poor planet.
Kerra is fresh to her Knighthood and ready to kickass.
There are a few more crazy bastard Sith involved too.

That book and the tie-in comic made John Jackson Miller on of my favorite SW authors.
The KotOR comic was great too.

@Fitzman73: Cool yeah Miller is good.
I liked his Obi Wan book. Felt very true.
He wrote the Rebels book that just came out too.

ThatScoobyDoom: I haven’t read either of those but want to sorely, based solely on him being the writer.

I think that’s a pretty good place to wrap it up, unless there was something else you wanted to say about the OT?

@Fitzman73: No not necessarily, we can wrap it up there.
Thanks it was fun!

ThatScoobyDoom: Thanks alot for doing it, man!
Hope you’ll do it again in the future.

@Fitzman73: Of course, I could talk Star Wars for days.

Be sure to listen to Fitzman’s podcast with his Sister Molly, Just Jump To The End, at http://JJ2End.com

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I like it so much I’ve done intros and what not for it.

Also don’t forget to follow him, and the pod, on the twitters.
His personal account @Fitzman73 and the show account @JJ2End.