The Camping Trip Begins And Playing Catch Up

One of the things I originally intended to do with this site was keep anybody who cared about the stuff I’ve done up to date on anything I do outside of the videos and such, so this here is a list of shtuff I’ve been up to this year.
As this is the 1 year anniversary of the day I started writing The Camping Trip, seems a good day to catch you all up.

The 1st thing on this list was originally set to be published on July 13th, to announce the availability of The Camping Trip, but due to phone trouble that wasn’t possible.
Anyway, here it is now.

​It’s all been leading up to this!
What started with boredom on May 27th 2013, has grown into this release.

December 26th 2015 – June 26 2016

6 months to the day, that’s how long it took from the moment I started writing my half of The Camping Trip to the moment that @Fitzman73 finished editing and doing the effects.

Now, as of July 13th, it’s out in the the world for just $5, find it here.
That $5 gets you the hour and a half audio drama feature and the near 2 hour bonus episode of @NerdBlitzPod.
And if you dig it, we also have posters available for only $5 as well, you can get them right here.

Then in October I got together with the good sir @FlyinKDW and recorded episode 6 of his podcast The Cult Of Dave.
We talked a bit about The Camping Trip, The Lion King, Aliens, and I even Special Edition of Doom’s Joke Corner!

Then this month (December) I hung out with@SquishyNosInc for episode 32 of his pod Always Bet On Geek.
He and I talked about wrestling, titties, wrestling titties, a bit of Scooby-Doo, and a bunch of other shit.

To hear my episodes of both of these shows you can check out this SoundCloud playlist I made, or go to ITunes or Stitcher.

In November, on the 7th, the good sir Fitz and I released our 2nd Bandcamp project, The Nerd Blitz Pilot Trio.
It’s Pilots for 3 shows that we hope to be able to launch soon (the 1st of which has launched already, but more on that in just a little while).
1st up is The Nerd Blitz Book Club, where we read the short story Star Wars: Kindred Spirits by Christie Golden (which is a prequel to our 1st Book Club book).
The 2nd show is The Nerd Blitz Comic-Con…Versations, where we read the Marvel Comic Star Wars: C-3PO: The Phantom Limb.
The 3rd and final Pilot is The Nerd Blitz Commentaries, where we watched The Star Wars Holiday Special.
Also included is a short little intro.
That is over 3 and a half hours of content available right here for just $4.

The final bit of business to tell you about, as mentioned above, is the launch of our 2nd bi-weekly podcast (which makes us weekly content providers, yippee).
We officially launched The Nerd Blitz Book Club on December 3rd with our 1st 2 episodes.
This 1st 19 episode series will cover Star Wars: Dark Disciple by Christie Golden.
You can find the Episodes on NerdBlitz.com, ITunes, Stitcher, or all in 1 SoundCloud playlist right here.

Share this post on Twitter with the hashtags #TSDJAProductions, #TheCampingTrip, #NerdBlitz, & #NerdBlitzBookClub

If you dug this and would like to show your support for TS-D/JA Productions, check out the Bandcamp page mentioned above at http://TSDJAProductions.Bandcamp.com or check out some Nerd Blitz merch at https://www.redbubble.com/people/nerdblitzpod/shop

And finally, the world can be such a horrible & shitty place sometimes.
Do whatever you can to combat that in anyway possible.
We need it now more than ever.

Thanks for reading.
I hope you come back soon.

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3 Years Of TS-D/JA Productions

I’m really surprised I’ve stuck with it for 3 years, but I’m sure glad I have.
Okay now, this year I’m really flying without a net, none of this shit is planned.
So strap in (or strap on) cause this might take a while.

But before we get into everything else, let’s go back to where it all started on May 27th 2013 with Bitch Slappin’ The Wind: https://youtu.be/OBrVxZaKcT4

Also, give a look at years 2nd Anniversary post: https://tsdjaproductions.wordpress.com/2015/05/27/two-years-of-ts-dja-productions/

Now, let’s get to the heart of the matter.
Boil it all down and TS-D/JA Productions, in all of it’s many forms, is really just the continuing progress of 1 dude who’s scared shitless of the real world, who never wanted to grow up and be a big people, who always just wanted to make stupid voices because it made himself laugh, who’s awkward around people because he doesn’t trust them, who just doesn’t want to face reality.
A dude that’s worried that some day he is going to die alone and there’s not going to be anybody on the planet to remember him because he was so closed off, so apart, so detached from the world.
A dude that would desperately love to be remembered for one of the best reasons imaginable, at least in his mind…to be remembered because he entertained you.

3 years after starting on this journey, I’m not sure if I’ve even begun accomplishing that feat…but it’s definitely not for lack of trying.
This last year I, with the help of so many many talented people, have been far more prolific than in either of the 2 years before, maybe even more so than those 1st 2 years combined.
Once again, on a personal level, this past year hasn’t really been the greatest, but I have creatively thrived in spite of that.
Probably as a way to try and escape the craziness.
But lets just keep to the public shit.

Sadly, in the past year, there have been fewer posts on my channel and on this site.
Hell, the Typecast has basically become a thing of the past as it’s becoming harder and harder to get folks to do them and cover new ground.
The videos have become rarer and rarer on the channel because it’s getting harder to come up with new material, whether it’s based on known properties or just making shit up.
But there is a good excuse for that!

If you follow either of my twitter accounts (@TheScoobyDoom & @TSDJAProduction, if you didn’t know) or if you’ve been paying attention to this site you’ve seen me talking about The Camping Trip.
I think I started writing it the day before or the day after Christmas and it took me about a month to write my half of the story.
After a few persisting issues with my old Rock Band mic that I’ve used since I made Dumbass Poets Society, I was able to get a new mic from @SteBoost (who has actually, and probably without even realizing it, been a really big hero to TS-D/JA Productions this year) in February and it took me about a month to record all of it in 8 voices or so and send it to my partner in crime, the dude that’s basically become the Scotty Mo to my Kev Smith in the last 12 months, the good sir @Fitzman73.

Over the last 2 months Fitz has edited, and I’ve heard, over a half hour of The Camping Trip.
And let me tell you folks, this will be the best sounding anything to have the TS-D/JA Productions name on it, the dude is fucking CRUSHING it!
I wish to hell I could give you the release date here, but there is still a lot of work to be done.
But I can give you a little hope on that front, I’m 75% sure it will be out before the end of July.
There could still be a bump in the road that causes a delay, but right now it’s looking good.

Until then, enjoy this trailer I just posted not too long ago: https://youtu.be/897tXlY3etI

Cool and creepy, right?

Now, what’s the other thing that’s kinda made me slack off on everything else?
Again, if you’ve paid attention to my 2 twitter accounts, I’ve launched a 3rd twitter account!
Wait…that’s not the thing, it’s what that twitter account is for that’s worth celebrating!
If you read the 2nd Anniversary post that I linked to above you know I was big time dreaming of hopefully launching a podcast before this years Anniversary.
Well guess what!
I DID IT!
WE DID IT!
After @Fitzman73 and I went and saw Episode VII back in December (right after I started writing my half of The Camping Trip) we recorded a pod on the way back to my house (which you can read more about and find out how to listen to here: https://tsdjaproductions.wordpress.com/2016/01/13/just-jump-to-the-end-episode-20-a-couple-of-jakku-jackoffs/) and it was fuckin’ fun, man.
First time I met the dude and we had an awesome time, at the very least from my perspective, which just added fuel to the fire of folks begging us (based on all of our Typecasts) to do a pod of our own.
Well, on April 16th @NerdBlitzPod set sail into the harsh waters of Podcastdom.

Fitz (again, like a champ) does ALL of the editing, so why has my shit been so sporadic?
Well, those intros and outros don’t write and record themselves.
That’s been my thing since The Nerd Blitz With Doom & Fitz launched, I write and record all of the intros and outros (Fitz does lines as needed) you hear on the pod (which you should all go listen to at NerdBlitz.com) and I’ve been making and editing videos for the Nerd Blitz YouTube channel (which you can find HERE), where very soon you will see the podcast episodes popping up as soon as I can make them and get them to Fitz to post.

So yeah, you are getting fewer posts, but you are getting far more content.
We’ve been recording weekly and banking episodes, but bi-weekly, for the foreseeable future, you will be getting at the very least 1 hour of new content from your favorite giant dog man Doom and his hockey helmeted friend Fitz in the form of The Nerd Blitz (which you should read more about here: https://tsdjaproductions.wordpress.com/2016/05/03/the-nerd-blitz-with-doom-and-fitz/), and we have a few things planned that we hope you folks will dig to give you more content than just the regular bi-weekly show, plus a few things we hope some of you will want to help us with to help us grow our listenership.

Something else that was pretty fuckin’ awesome in the last year was that, thanks to the rocker and roller that is @TheJSarge, my voice can be heard on one of my favorite podcasts!
At the end of the Tell ‘Em Steve-Dave (a podcast which has been talked about many times around these parts) Halloween special last year, the creepy little voice that says the title is none other than me!
It’s nothing huge, but it’s pretty damn cool for me.
You can listen to it at this link: http://www.smodcast.com/smodcast/episodes/emperor-flanagan
And here’s my very first reaction to it: https://twitter.com/TheScoobyDoom/status/662743366023716864?s=09
I’d talked to Sarge before and sent him some takes of me saying Tell ‘Em Steve-Dave that I’d recorded on my old phone with the shitty built in mic.
Well, I offered to redo them for him with my slightly better set-up (the old Rock Band mic and such) and he said sure.
He said he’d try to use them if he could, and I honestly didn’t really see when he’d have the opportunity to use them, but hey, at least I tried!
Then the dude came through with this!
He really is a cool motherfucker.

Now, lets get into the numbers game, which is what I obsess over more than anything else. Haha
Total views for everything I’ve done in these last 3 years are as follows…
The Site: 4919
The main YouTube Channel has: 8697
The Pod Youtube Channel has: 120
And the Pod has: 237
Pretty fuckin’ cool, right?
All combined, that’s 13,973 views.

Now, lets talk about total combined hours of content in these 3 years.
Between both YT Channels (not including The Camping Trip trailer, that goes on year 4’s record) I, with crazy amounts of help, have created and produced a total of 2 hours 13 minutes and 36 seconds of video content.
Between the 2 bonus episodes posted on the JJ2End Feed, Episode 20 of Just Jump To The End, and the 1st 3 Episodes of The Nerd Blitz With Doom & Fitz, Fitz and I have produced 5 hours 46 minutes and 26 seconds of glorious podcast content.
All that comes together for a grand total of 7:59:02 by my mathin’.
Just 58 seconds short of 8 full hours in 3 years.
That’s over 4 times the 1:43:00 I had last year.

Now let’s get into the thank yous for the last year.
For the videos, I want to send a huge heartfelt thank you to the following people: @ShariSayz, @_13Chris, @FromTheMonkey, @Woody_TESDFan & @JoePeel of @ShootheMoonBand, @AmandaMDanger, @Fitzman73, @GingerNacre, @NeilGat, @Forgeticus, @SteBoost, @KatLong31, @LookingForEight, @Gabryelledam, & @Joinedtofollow.

For their help with the site, deepest thanks go too @Fitzman73, @Joinedtofollow, @ScoobySnaxCom, @MemeEmSteveDave, @SpiderScooby, @CheeryAnt, @SteBoost, @ShariSayz, @KatLong31, and a special thanks to @SMorgan21 for offering to doba Typecast (I still wanna give it a whirl, Sandy).

To start wrapping up, and to reiterate what I said last year, of you’ve been here since the beginning, THANK YOU!
If you just found something I made yesterday, THANK YOU!
If you read, watch, subscribe, or listen to anything or everything I have made, THANK YOU!
And if you have ever helped, left a comment, or engaged in conversation based on any of it,
It really does mean the world to me and I THANK YOU!
You’ve helped me through those small simple actions more than you could ever realize.
And a Huge Thank You goes to @SpiderScooby for encouraging me to get on the twitter in the first place, without that push, none of this exists.
Thanks for that and so much more, brother.

One more time, here are all of the links to all of the ways you can consume and support TS-D/JA Productions.
Pod: NerdBlitz.com
Pod YT: Nerd Blitz on YT
Pod Twitter: @NerdBlitzPod
My YT: Youtube.com/ThatScoobyDoom
My Scooby Writings: ScoobyFan.Net/Author/Scooby-Doom/
My Twitter: @TheScoobyDoom
TS-D/JA Productions Merch: CafePress.com/JustJumpToTheEnd/12361893
TS-D/JA Productions Twitter: @TSDJAProduction

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Share this post on Twitter with the hashtags #TSDJAProductions #TheCampingTrip and/or #NerdBlitz.

And finally, quite often the world can be an incredibly shitty place.
Do EVERYTHING in your power to combat that and spread a little bit of good and kindness in any way you can.
Even small acts can help far more than you realize.
Thank you so much for your support, I hope to see you back here again next year.

Just Jump To The End Episode 20: A Couple Of Jakku Jackoffs

Do you have 1 hour, 15 minutes, and 53 seconds free and you just don’t know what to do to burn that time?
Well kids, we here at TS-D/JA Productions have just the thing for you!
Read on for details!

You know that little movie that recently came out and flopped called *rustles through papers* Star…Wars?
Star Wars, yes!
That was the name!
Well, on December 29th, @Fitzman73, of the Just Jump To The End Podcast, and I went to this little picture that could.
It was fun as hell!
The best way to describe the whole day and experience would be to call it a Patronus day.
Sad as it may be, it really was one of the best days of my life.

Now, why the hell would I post about it on this site?
Well, as soon as we came out of the theater and got in to his motor vehicle, he turned on his recorder…and I said “Move Jerk-Off!”…which will forever go down as the first words I ever said on my very first big boy podcast.

Here you can listen to my extremely overwhelmed, jumbled up, gut reaction to Star Wars Episode VII The Force Awakens.
This was the first time I saw the movie, and this was also the first Star Wars movie I’ve ever seen in a theater and I was also nervous as fuck to actually be recording.
So, here you go, give it a shot.

***WARNING, PODCAST CONTAINS SPOILERS***

http://justjumptotheend.libsyn.com/episode-20-a-couple-of-jakku-jackoffs

You can clearly hear me struggling to make sense of it all.
And I know it sounds like I hate the movie, but rest assured I did not.
I loved it, but just because I love it doesn’t mean that it’s flawless.
This movie has big problems for sure, but thinking about it in the days and weeks since I can’t help but smile.
It really was a joy for me.

Fitz says he felt very similar after his first viewing, it is a lot to take in, but that it does does get better the more you see it.
It’s my hope that when ever I do see it again (once, twice, thrice, whatever) he and I get to record again and I can better articulate my feelings on it.

I mentioned last year (I believe it was in my May 27th anniversary post) that I hoped to get a podcast of my own off the ground in the next year.
While this is not that, this is a step in the right direction.
I can assure you, if you folks really give this some love and truly want more, we will make it happen.

One final note, for anybody that’s interested, if you add up all of my videos (which you can watch here), the 2 Typecast FrankenPods (which you can listen to here and here), and this, I have, with the help of many amazing artists and creators, produced 4 hours, 18 minutes, and 12 seconds of content that you can watch and listen to when ever and where ever you want.
Kinda cool.
But there’s something even cooler!
Right now, Fitzman and I are working on something to help get that number even higher.
Work has begun on a new project that I am proud to announce first here.

Coming some time this year from TS-D/JA Productions and JJ2EMedia, on BandCamp or something similar, The Camping Trip!
An original anthology style audio drama written and performed by Fitzman and myself.
I can’t say too much about it at this point as it is still being written, but I wanted to let everybody who visits this site to get prepared for it.
My Youtube channel may not get as many uploads over the next few months as I throw myself wholeheartedly into this project, but I promise you all I plan to make it worth it.

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Share this post on twitter with the hashtags #JJ2EMedia and #TSDJAProductions.

Follow Fitz on Twitter: @Fitzman73
Follow Just Jump To The End on Twitter: @JJ2End
Follow Me on Twitter: @TheScoobyDoom
Follow TS-D/JA Productions on Twitter: @TSDJAProduction

And finally!
This world is a rough place.
Do everything within your power to make it better in any way that you possibly can.
Even something as simple as a smile to a stranger can help more that you can ever comprehend.

Thank you all so very much for reading, please stick around because there is a lot of cool shit coming down the pipeline!
See you next time!

Typecast #17: There Has Been An Awakening

Hey Gang!
Welcome back.
This go round with the Typecast, with Star Wars: The Force Awakens opening very soon, I wanted to do something a little different.
So I put the word out on the twitter and asked if there were any folks who wanted to answer 5-10 questions about Star Wars and I got about 5 bites, after a while some folks didn’t follow up so I parred I had 2 then asked Ross, Fitz, & Fafa if they wanted in.
Thankfully, they all said yes.
Also, really quick, I wanna thank @SMorgan21 for offering, if I had known I would have the room I woulda taken you up Sandy.
Sorry!

Now, my questions may get a bit repetitive, but all the answers took us to some cool places, so just go along with it.
My guests this go round, in order, are @SpiderScooby, @CheeryAnt, @SteBoost, @ShariSayz, and @Fitzman73.
Their names will appear in red and link to their respective Twitter accounts.
Also, starting with this Typecast, due to some punkass complaining (I’m looking at you @JoinedToFollow) my name will appear in red, so my name doesn’t blend into the conversation, and will link to my Youtube channel.

These conversations appear just as they were had, typos and all funk ups intact, to maintain honesty.
Also, just incase, I want to put up a SPOILER ALERT, cause things go slightly in that direction with some rumors and images being brought up.
All that said, up first is @SpiderScooby, so take it away me…

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ThatScoobyDoom: How far back do you go with this loveable galaxy far far away?

@SpiderScooby: All my life.
I don’t remember the first time I saw the movies.
They were always just there.

ThatScoobyDoom: So you don’t really recall if your parents liked them and it sort of got passed or something?

@SpiderScooby: Oh yeah, they liked them.
I saw the OT at a very early age.
We had the old VHS releases the had the original posters for the cover art.

ThatScoobyDoom: You’re a wee bit older than me, you’ve been a fan way longer than me, so you’ve been through the periods where there has been…NOTHING!!!
So, what has kept you interested?

@SpiderScooby: Good question.
I never really had any of the toys.
I didn’t start reading the books until the late 90s.
I think the Special Editions helped.
That was my first time seeing Star Wars on the big screen.
That was an amazing experiance.
I remember the line for A New Hope being crazy.

ThatScoobyDoom: Did any of the comics feed the addiction?

And being such a fan, how different was the experience for you to 1. See them writ large for the first time?
&
2. What did you think of that first round of changes?

@SpiderScooby: I never got into the comics because of my eyesight (thank Bob for Comixology).

Seeing that final trench run with the updated SFX was just breathtaking.

The changes never bothered me as a kid.
I didn’t even know Han Shot First was a thing until a few years later.
Looking back on them now, some are better than others.

ThatScoobyDoom: So you, more than most, had a dark time after Jedi in regard to the Wars.

Interesting, consider the way many have reacted.

What was that build up to the prequels like for you?

@SpiderScooby: Not really.
I still had the novels.
And I was lucky enough to miss that dark period in the 80s when there wasn’t amy new SW content.

I didn’t care.
It was Star Wars.
On the big screen.
That was more important to me than any changes.

That lead-up to TPM was madness. the marketing for that movie was crazy.
I was hyped for it, even though when I did see it, it didn’t make much of an impression on me.
I liked it, but it didn’t feel like my Star Wars.

ThatScoobyDoom: Even so, there weren’t a lot of novels back then, comparatively speaking to when I came into it.
You still had to wait for shit, right?

Did you get swept into the hype?
Especially on the merch end?

As the prequels progressed, did it get closer to what you feel is your Star Wars?

@SpiderScooby: Oh, there were plenty of novels.
You had the books that followed the OT(The New Jedi Order, etc), and then the books based off of The Phantom Menace 

Mostly on the book and video game side of things.
That period between 1999 and 2005 was a great time for Stat Wars games  KOTOR, Rouge Squadron, Battlefront. 
I still say the podracibg game was the best thing to come out of Ep1.

Not until the end of Sith.
Even then it would’ve been nice to see a little more of Anakin in the Vader suit.
Ep III especially felt rushed even though it is the best of the prequels.

ThatScoobyDoom: I meant specifically before Menace.
You’ve read some of what they consider the young adult novels, right?

And don’t forget the Republic Commando game, that rocks.
Speaking of Republic Commando, this is a great time for me to eat a bit of crow from one of the earliest Typecasts.
Those Republic Commando novels are fucking masterful!
Sorry Karen Traviss!
Everybody go read them all.

I still haven’t played or seen anything from that podracing game, what was that like?
Because I get visions of like a hybrid between Crash Team Racing and the Harry Potter Quidditch game in style and tone.

The thing about Sith is that it feels like you are coming into the movie like halfway through it (and if you’ve seen the micro series or read Labyrinth Of Evil, you know this is totally the case).
From then on there’s not really a break, it just unfolds quicker than fuck.
Love that movie.

@SpiderScooby: Right, the EU was was going strong by that point(or at least it felt like that).

The young Obi-Wan books?
Yeah, loved those books.
It gave us more Obi-Wan and  Qui-Gon, two of the good things about TPM .

I’ve never read those, and I need to go finish that game.

Kinda.
You had many different tracks(it wasn’t just limited to Tatooine) and different podracers you could race.

The creation of the clone army should have been the first movie, with Anakin as a kid being only a flashback.

ThatScoobyDoom: I stuck to the main novels, I kinda wish I would’ve tried some of those though because I always wanted more Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan.

She somehow manages to build her own little world within the galaxy and I’m telling you brother, it is awesome.
The game is pretty damn good too.

Yeah, that sounds great.

That would have been a way different trilogy for damn sure.
But I am really happy with what we got.

How about Rebels or The Clone Wars or any of the old series?
I know you’ve seen TCW, but have you seen any of the others?

@SpiderScooby: I would agree if Ep 2 was good, I would agree.
But they didn’t hit first base til Sith.

Clones Wars started off weak, but turned into a amazing series by the end.
Too bad we didn’t more of it.
Rebels is a lot of fun, this season has been killing it.

ThatScoobyDoom: We will have to agree to disagree on this one, my good sir.
I really love Phantom Menace.
If you wanna get sporty, I’d call I a double, II hitting a foul ball where the ball goes straight up, gets caught in the lights, then comes down and smacks you dead in the face, and III is a home run.

Fitz has said the same about early Clone Wars, but I dug it from the jump.
And from what I’ve heard of Rebels, it sounds amazing.
Hondo, Clones, yes please!

Did you see Droids or Ewoks?

@SpiderScooby: It’s more like that ball comes down, hits you in the face, and puts you to sleep.

I’m one of the 5 people who saw the Clone Wars movie in the theater. That movie is rough to get through.

It’s amazing though.
You have this new character, Ahsoka, who nobody liked at first but everyone loved by the end of the series.

I’ve avoided those like the plague. I’ve seen clips of them, and they just look cringe-worthy.

ThatScoobyDoom: Now you’re just splitting hairs, vod. Haha

It’s funny that every era has had a hated character.
But the OT and TCW eras hated characters were loved by the end of their runs.

They look cheesy as fuck, but I would love to see them.
Same for those 2 Ewok movies.

What do you think of everything you’ve seen thus far of Ep VII?

@SpiderScooby: You’ve seen bits of The Holiday Special, right?

I haven’t been more hyped for a movie.
New Star Wars, plus the original trio returning.
It should be amazing.
I’m trying to stay cautiously optimistic though just in case it sucks.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yes yes, unwatchable it is…but I would buy it if they put it out.

Funny, I gave that “cautiously optimistic” line to Fafa in her portion of this very Typecast. Lol

Besides Ep VII, what are you most looking forward too?
Movies, Shows, Comics, Novels, what has you the most excited?

@SpiderScooby: I don’t think I’ve seen the whole thing.

Rebels Season 2 is going on right now.
I hope we get that Ahsoka/Vader confrontation soon.

ThatScoobyDoom: I haven’t seen it all either.
I’ve seen the beginning, some of the Bea Arthur shit, and the Boba Cartoon…it’s just pure shit. Lol

Oh, shit yeah!
That is gonna be awesome.
I love Snips, and when she finally has to come face to face with what Anakin has become, I’m getting goosebumps just thinking about it.

Okay, final question.
What does Star Wars mean to you?

@SpiderScooby: The Boba Fett cartoon is probably the only good thing about it.

Do you think Ahsoka will die?

Star Wars is my favorite film series of all time.
It is the ultimate story of Good vs. Evil and redemption.

ThatScoobyDoom: That’s the only thing I saw.

Eventually, yeah.
Not sure if it will be in this season or even this series.
But I think she kinda has to, she seems to be essential to the rebellion.
Why wasn’t she in the OT?
After she confronts Vader, she will know who he is for sure.
Either he kills her, it drives her insane, or she joins him…and that ain’t happening.

Indeed it is.
A fairy tale exacerbated to monolithic proportions.

Next up is @CheeryAnt!

ThatScoobyDoom: How long have you been following the Saga?

@CheeryAnt: I vividly remember (and this is one of my first memories) my mom talking with my grandfather about the OT when I was 4 and I asked her “Who’s Yoda?” So she told me the story of Luke and the force.
I thought it was awesome!
We didn’t have the movies so I saw them almost a decade later.
I guess I started to follow when I was 13 so 7 years now.

ThatScoobyDoom: So you knew the story before seeing the movies?
Did that ruin or help you enjoy the movies better?

@CheeryAnt: Oh, it toootally ruined the *Darth Vader voice* “Luke, I am your father” surprise.
Which was awful!
But I didn’t know much detail about the rest.
To me was unexpected Obi-Wan and Yoda dying, the twins kissing (ew), Luke losing his hand.
I become a fan.

ThatScoobyDoom: I think almost everybody knows the Daddy reveal.
It’s been referenced to death for years. Haha

What was it about it that kept you hooked into it all?

@CheeryAnt Yeah, but I knew about the daddy reveal because of my mom, not because any movie/tv show reference.
It was totally ruined either way.

Han Solo… Haha just kidding.
(**Editor’s note** I had to do a slight edit here because an emoticon fucked up. Would have left half a page of blank screen.)

Nah, I really liked the concept of the Force, Jedi vs Sith.

I know for sure every SW fan, like myself,  have tried to move something using the force… Right?
Right?! XD

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, you would be correct.
I wave my hand at automatic doors all the time.

And here’s another tip, The Imperial March makes for great walking music.
You ever have to walk down a long hallway, get that pumping through your phone, and just walk.
It’s awesome!

Which, if at all, do you prefer, the PT or the OT and why?

@CheeryAnt: Never done that, I’m gonna have to try it haha I do go humming all the time though, especially when I get inside a house XD

Definitely the OT and just because,  in my opinion, there’s 2 problems with the PT:
First, acting is not so good.
I like the story, the characters (yes, even Jar Jar Binks, he’s so dumb that it’s funny) but definitely acting ruin them a bit. 
And second, there’s absolutely no “chemistry” between Padme and Anakin.
They look like 2 friends forced to be married.
With Han and Leia you know there’s love even when they’re pretending to hate each other and I don’t feel the love with Padme and Anakin, Doom.
I want to feel the love!
Haha
If it wasn’t for those 2 things, I’d love the PT as much as I love the OT.
You’re supposed to believe shit is happening for real and the actors didn’t make it in many of the scenes.

ThatScoobyDoom: *grabs shoulders, looks deep into eyes*
Fafa…Star Wars isn’t real…Wookiee’s is just tall guys in fur suits and raccoon eyed make-up.
XD

I sorta agree on the first, but totally agree on the second.
I can’t knock Ewan McGregor, Liam Neeson, or Natalie Portman’s acting.
Nor the voice acting of Ahmed Best or Frank Oz.
But the Anakin actors…have some…issues…
As for the second, that was forced as FUCK!

Have you seen The Clone Wars or Rebels?
Or any of the animated series for that matter?

@CheeryAnt: No, no!
That’s not true!
That’s impossible!

I’m personally not a fan of  MacGregor in The Phantom Manace, he was good in the other 2 though.
Jake Lloyd doesn’t bother me as much as Hayden Christensen, I’ve seen worse kids but Christensen totally fucked the amazing role.
And Portman failed with not making it look real too.

I’ve never seen not one bit of Rebels.
And just a few episodes of The Clone Wars, the ones you and Fitz talked about in the first typepod 🙂

ThatScoobyDoom: Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

Ewan is awesome in all 3, for my money.
Lloyd is a pain in the ass.
Like, the Toche Station line from Luke in A New Hope turned up to 11.
Hayden is good in 3 I think.
And as for Natalie, she’s Natalie, she rocks.

What did you think of that?

@CheeryAnt: Shut up, fucker! XD

Ha!
The kid from Anchorman 2 is a pain in the ass, Lloyd was not so bad.
Christensen is good in The Revenge Of The Sith, but there’s few things I don’t like of that one.
The perfect end of the beginning. 
Portman is great, she’s my woman crush but she failed me in that bit haha

I liked it a lot!
Just when I was looking for some Star Warsy stuff, you told me about how good it is (I’m a loser for not give it a shot years ago) and I saw a few eps.
Wish I could watch the rest.
BTW, I agree with you, Mace is an asshole in TCW, but Sam “mutherfucker” Jackson is too damn awesome to be hated as a motherfucking Jedi!

ThatScoobyDoom: No clue who that kid is, not seen Anchorman 2.
Most kid actors are annoying though, which is why I never make a big deal about Lloyd.

I wish I could see the rest too, I’ve seen a few eps from later seasons and it is just brilliant.
Find some way if you can and watch it all.
Ahsoka is such a great character.
And Rebels, I saw around half of season 1, it is just as good.

Damn straight about Mace.
But credit where credit is due, that was the good sir Fitz what made that revelation, I believe.
I was still drinking the Mace Kool-aid.

Okay, Episode VII, what do you think of everything we’ve seen so far?
Anything standing out for you?

@CheeryAnt: Don’t haha or do but don’t expect much. 
That’s my point, he’s just a baby.

Indeed.
Padawan Tano was one of my favorite characters.
Will try to watch both somehow.

Ugh, I couldn’t remember if it was you or Fitz that said it and I was thinking “damn right! What an asshole he is!”

I’m scared, as anyone else (I guess), that J.J will fucked this up.
I tried to keep it down with the teasers release but when I saw the them, honestly, I cried.
I still do… but just a bit.
I’m a big girl.
It’s so exciting to think I’m gonna see Star Wars in a movie theater!
Now I’m really just hoping it will be good.

ThatScoobyDoom: I hated the first, I won’t waste my time. Lol

I think you are correct in thinking that, I know quite a few folks are scared JJ is gonna shit the bed.
The scarier part is that it’ll be a while before we know if he has or not, because whether it sucks or not, this movie is gonna rake in cash.

Yeah, I may have gotten a wee bit misty during the full trailers.
But they were more thrilling than anything, goosebumps for all of them.
Any new shot has the same effect.

Besides EP VII, what are you most looking forward too from the franchise?
One of the Stand Alone movies, the other Saga movies, a book, something else?

@CheeryAnt: Well, there’s idiots that didn’t like the PT.
So I suppose that even if the new saga is outstanding, there’s gonna be people shitting on it.
So I’m just hoping those morons will be wrong.

I bet you cried like a little baby haha
It gets me every time.

Rogue One… Definitely excited about that one.

ThatScoobyDoom: Agreed.
Cautiously optimistic is how I’m going in.
Hope for the best, prepare forcthe worst.

YES!!!
Me too, that sounds like it will be great!
The Han movie doesn’t have you all a quiver?

@CheeryAnt: Exactly!

Indeed.
Yeah, sure.
Curious who will play Han.
I can’t imagine someone that’s not Harrison Ford doing it.
Hopefully they’ll choose wisely.

ThatScoobyDoom: This is very true.
There is only 1 clear choice…Shia Labouf.

Okay, final question.
On a personal level, what does Star Wars mean to you?

@CheeryAnt: Shia Labublafle can suck my ass.

My grandfather was the only one that brought joy and laughter when I was little and even when I didn’t see the movies until I was 13, we used to talk and joke about it.
After he died, Star Wars was mostly what I remembered of my time with him.
Seeing those movies make me happy.
It reminds me of the good old times.

Up now is @SteBoost

ThatScoobyDoom: How far back do you go with the saga?
What are your earliest memories of it all?

@SteBoost: The first thing I definitely remember was going to the local Cinema to watch Empire.
I can’t remember what year but it was a small town single screen in England so it could have easily been ’82.
It seemed to be a big deal but I think at age 3 I was a little too young to appreciate it all.
I do remember the Hoth battle being amazing & Yoda smacking R2 with a stick was funny as all hell but that’s about it.

The real start would have been Ep.4 being the big Christmas movie on TV and despite being pretty poor we had a VCR so it got the honor of being one of the 3 or 4 tapes we had so we watched the shit out of it. 

It was impossible back then to know how big a deal it was but when school started after the holidays every kid was either Luke or Darth, Not many kids wanted to be Han at the time but that might reflect the rural village upbringing we had, Luke was just more relateable & that iconic shot of him looking to the horizon at the two suns of Tatooine is one that definitely struck a powerful chord. 

ThatScoobyDoom: Oh, so you go that far back?
I can totally see small town kids loving Luke more than Han.
Han may be cool, but who can’t see themself as Luke?

Episode IV is not a Christmas movie though…The Wizard Of Oz, now THAT is a Christmas movie.

What about it hooked you in?

@SteBoost: Yeah I’m an old fart, not quite Fitzman old but old enough.

After thinking on it I dont think it was any one thing that hooked me in.
It really was the film that had it all.

The world is just so rich and filled, like not just right in front of the camera but all the little stuff going on in the background it made it feel lived in.
The story’s perfect, It’s simple really ya know, boy gets sent by his destiny to fight the evil wizard and save the princess.
It’s basic as all hell but what kid doesn’t dream of that exact thing.

The score too has to have played a big part, I think I was too young to realize it but I remember I used to replay the medal ceremony part over and over and it giving me chills.
As an adult I still think that particular part of the score is the most powerful in the whole trilogy and Princess Leia giving those looks right down the camera in that scene probably didn’t hurt either, she made me want to do something, I didn’t know what at that age but I knew whatever it was I wanted to do it a lot

ThatScoobyDoom: HAHAHA!!!

And playing off of what you said about the lived in feel and the score, the music and sound design lends itself to that with the way the they edited it.
Look at the Cantina scene specifically, the volume of the band changes as they cut around the whole bar.
It’s a subconscious way of subtly drawing you into it, it makes you feel like you are in the world.

As you say, much like Fitz, you were a part of that first generation of fans, so how did YOU feel about the prequels?

@SteBoost: I saw episode 1 in the cinema and I thought it was ok but not quite right somehow. 

It had some great bits in it like the Darth Maul fight & the improved lightsaber action in general that makes any ep4-6 fight look painfully slow.
In fact most of the action scenes are great but The over reliance on CG (as good as it was) hurt that feeling of danger & suspense quite a bit, It was sooo pretty but I didn’t feel for the characters anything like the ones from the OG films. 

I think part of it comes from so many of them are quite emotionless due to character, The Jedi is obvious but then you have Princess Amidala with her need to be stolid and regal, Palpatine is the same & Darth Maul is kickass but also very contained & this leads to somthing even Jar Jars antics & lil Anikins enthusiasm can’t drown out. 

Having seen some of the behind the scenes & other breakdown videos I think Lucas got stuck behind a wall of “yes men” who just went with whatever he said.
Where as back in the day he was in charge but he wasn’t this god like creator of the holy trilogy and people probably made suggestions or pointed out issues on Episode 1-3 right from the get go it’s him saying “what if we do this” and 20 people going “sure thing Mr Lucas” he’s good but even the best in the world need some checks & balances to prevent things getting messy & confusing.
For example one of them has 5 or 6 different things going on at the same time during the climax it’s just too much to take in comfortably where as Jedi had 3 (Endor, The attack on the 2nd Death Star & luke VS Vader & the Emperor)

A lot of people really blame Lucas & the prequels have become a bit of a joke more than they deserve.
I still get the feeling there is a good movie or two in them if someone could trim a lot of the mess of the edges.
It seems to be a generational thing, we wanted our childhood back but we didnt quite get it.
The spinoffs seem to be more universally liked but as for the prequels You young un’s seem to like them much more any take as to why?

ThatScoobyDoom: My take on it is simple.
The kids of the prequels grew up post T2, post Batman 89…ya know what, fuck 89!
We had Batman The Animated Series every day or every week on TV.
Think about it, when you guess grew up you had, as much as I love it, limited animation like Hanna-Barbera and hokey effects.
We had shit that took what you grew up on and made it look 100 times better.
So the OT, in comparison, is boring.
And some take that as me saying “fuck the original trilogy” which IS NOT the case.
I’ve said many times that I love all 6 movies, but there is no denying the prequels are better made.
Better sets, better effects, better everything with the exception of maybe acting.

The other thing would be the pace.
I’ve used this analogy before and it totally fits.
Look at any episode of Scooby-Doo back then and see how relaxed it is.
There are long periods of silence and whatnot.
Then look at any episode of Mystery Incorporated, the pace is breakneck.
No silence what so ever.
Always somebody talking or an explosion or some sort of action happening.
To your point, stuff from back in the day took it’s time, and as boring as the taxation shit may be, it was another part of a hugely layered story.
They call it sophistication, but it’s just a synonym for busy.
Every year it seems Movies and TV Shows feel they have to be more and more complex to grab attention.

I think that’s totally the case, though I think the majority of George’s ideas were great.

I think I asked Fitz this once, I want your thoughts.
Why do you think Star Wars and Indiana Jones are the only franchises that folks get pissy about CG with?
Nobody cares in superhero movies, Lord Of The Rings, Harry Potter, or anything else, but Lucas puts CG in Star Wars and people lose their fuckin’ minds!

@SteBoost: One of the things with CG is if you can see it it’s somewhat failed. 

This is definitely the case in Crystal Skull.
The gopher?
They coulda bluescreened it and it would have probably looked better.

The other is it’s kinda breaking the universe (again especially if it’s a bit wonky) everything in EP4-6 and Indy 1-3 is a real prop and that sets a kind of unwritten rule.
It also stands the test of time much better than digital stuff.
It’s all about being believable.
The scooby movies for example the CG in them is so cartoony you cant not see it but people are expecting a cartoon so it gets a mental pass.

CG is almost unspottable for space battles, the extra X-wings they added for the enhanced EP4 went completely unnoticed but Jabba? That looks ropey as hell especially a few years after the fact. 

AS for new franchises such as LOTR & the marvel movies etc, I think they’ve have CG as a rule from the word go and it’s used well, it’s not being used as everything. 

A lot of the sets are real, The CG is top of the line.
I even suspect part of the choice of IronMan for the first marvel movie was that some amount of unnatural movement would be unconcuiosly forgiven & seen as “The suit”.

 Lucas embraced it, He innovated it and drove the tech forward but at the same time he helped expose the limitations and drawbacks of CG.

ThatScoobyDoom: I get all that, but as everybody always reminds me, times change.
The OT broke new ground for damn sure, why folks gotta jam their digital dicks in the dudes mouth for trying out a new technology?

As I’ve said before, without Lucas pushing CG (even if the CG he used looks out of date now) you don’t have the Harry Potter, Lord Of The Rings, Iron Man, Avengers, Spider-Man franchises, and I highly doubt Video Games would look as good as they do now.

And on top of all of that, I honestly think that practical effects age badly the same way CG ones do.
Yes, CG Jabba looks like shit…but the practical Jabba in Jedi is goofy looking too, I love it but it’s laughable now!

What did you think of 2 and 3 after 1 sort of changed the perception of what Star Wars was?

@SteBoost: I can see your point with the CG VS practical I think it’s probably something to do with the amount of time older fans have lived with the way the practical looks even if it’s a little poor here and there it’s all consistent & the mix that is in EP1 was jarring to us grumpy old sticks in the mud. 

As for the other 2 movies I think they really turn it around.
Episodes 2 & 3 are far better I think.

2 was my introduction to the clone wars.
Having not read any of the books etc it suddenly got interesting.
When Obi wan finds Geonosis & the army of Fett based clones combined with seeing Palpatine’s political maneuverings It really made you think this is going to be the huge galactic conflict you felt it was from when it was mentioned in the OG trilogy,.
They never gave much detail but it felt like it was a massive part of history. 

It still had some flaws.
The rigid Amidala/Anakin love story falls sooo flat.
Dont get me wrong Portman is a great actor (Christensen is OK in other stuff I’ve seen too) but the triple whammy of stilted dialogue, their character traits of having to be reserved and “proper” & the fact that together they have all the chemistry of a portapotty make it almost embarrassing to watch back.

That’s probably my only real gripe with ep2 (apart from continued excess CG) The Jango Fett fight was good and they even made me buy the Yoda fight.
It all runs along nicely and having the ominous ending of all the clones and early star destroyers really made me want to see episode 3. 

Episode 3 Is the best of the prequels (IMHO) You can see how everything is “coming up empire” but no one seems to be able see it or do anything about it.
The Empire has always been an analogy of the Nazis & knowing that, watching it happen even in a fantasy setting adds a potent sinister tone to the film.
Storywise too it’s a big step in the right direction, most of the actors get chances to emote and even Anakin stops being “mannequin” Skywalker.
While that’s not good for anyone around him (especially any padawans) it helped me start giving a shit and actually engage with the characters.
I guess its a weird paradox, People love the Jedi & want more of them but put them front & center and unless they are kicking asses they have a distinct lack of personality. 

It’s a pretty great film and any gripes I have (asides from the legendary “NOOOOOOOO”) are minor.
I’d like to have seen Grevious fleshed out more (maybe they did in the spin offs I haven’t seen them), He seems like a really good character but with so much else going on I guess they didn’t have time.
It does have a bit of “Pirates of the Caribbean syndrome” you get who’s side your on but sometimes in all the plot threads you can be a bit confused as to why. 

The big Obi Wan Vs Anakin battle was to me a little over the top but that might be because of all the other action going on and not their specific fight, but one thing it definitely was guilty of was ropey CG.
They never look like they are really there.
It’s almost as bad as Episode 4 (before it got restored) you can see this area around them that looks added on & the lighting is off, A minor issue but with that much screen time & being one of the most critical moments of the flick it did drag me out if it a bit. 

On the whole I think episode 2 & 3 get tarred with the EP 1 brush more than they deserve and several of the criticisms that get thrown at them could honestly be applied to the OG trilogy if people were willing to be equally cynical.

ThatScoobyDoom: 1 last thing I want to mention and then we can drop the entire CG Vs practical thing.
But I was thinking about it and nobody seems to care about Godzilla going CG.
You made a fair point that the other franchises I mention all had CG from the jump, but Godzilla started as a dude in a suit tearing up a cardboard miniature set.
But nobody seems to care.
They bitch about the shitty stories, but CG never comes up.
The recent Planet Of The Apes movies come to mind too.

I’m always surprised that Episode 1 always gets so much shit, there are whole sections of 2 that are like a gigantic Pixar movie.
And I will say, 2 is my least favorite of the entire saga…so far.
It had great concepts, but it is too boring.
The Obi-Wan/Fett stuff is cool, but drawn out.
The Anakin/Padme stuff is just a turd in the punchbowl, drags the whole thing down.
If not for that last half hour to 45 minutes, I’d probably not watch it again.

Depending on the day, but more often than not, 3 is my favorite of the franchise.
I love that end fight.
It has that pace and ferocity that I want to see in a heated battle.
For my money, that is the best fight of the saga.
The OT fights are too slow.

Based on what you said, I’m guessing you haven’t watched The Clone Wars?
Cause the 1st 2 seasons cover Grevious pretty good, give you a bit of backstory and some great action.
As Fitz and I have said many times, that series makes the prequels way better.
Definitely check that out.
And while I’ve only seen the first half of season 1, get in on Rebels too…but watch TCW first.

What have you seen from 7 that has peaked your interest the most?

@SteBoost: I really love that we don’t know much from it at all.
It’s what a trailer should be, It’s a taster not a list of plot points (I’m looking at you The Martian trailer!)

You get an idea about some the characters but almost no idea how it all fits together ya know, It leaves you wanting to know what it’s all about: 

Who’s that in the wrecked Star destroyer? 

How did Finn end up as a storm trooper? 

What’s happened since Episode 6?

Has the galaxy gone to shit?

What’s going on with that gnarly badass Lightsaber?

WAS THAT DARTH VADER’S HEAD?

Then that score hits the peak (great choice to not go with the main theme) The Falcon spirals in, Han says it’s all real, then even a cynical old bugger like me gets choked up a bit & I have to go change my pants again.

So er.. Whats peaked my interest the most? 

It looks like they might be able to pull off the impossible.
Take what’s great about both trilogies, pay tribute to the past & push the whole thing forward to some whole new place that we don’t even know about yet, but have the distinct pleasure of getting to find out.

So if you’ll excuse me I’m going to watch those trailers again.

ThatScoobyDoom: That’s what’s exciting to me, they seem to have blended the best parts of both trilogies.
The pace of the prequels and the story/characters of the originals.

Shit, at this point we’ve only seen roughly 10 minutes of the movie, and yesterday they told us the runtime is 136 minutes.
We’ve not even seen 10%.
And folks are bitching about not seeing Luke, can you believe it?

So, besides Ep VII, what are you looking forward to most?
Stand Alone movies, a Comic, the rest of the Saga movies, what?

@SteBoost: The luke thing is interesting.
I’ve read a doze rumors about him already so its best to say no-one seems to have the definitive answer so it’ll be nice to just wait and see how/if they introduce him. 

Besides the flick probably the biggest thing I’m hoping for a new Knights of the old republic game. 

BioWare have made two of them but it’s been a few years since then (they have made the entire Mass Effect saga since) and a new adventure set in the Episode 7 universe would be fantastic. Perhaps set in the time between episodes 6 and 7 so it wont interfere in any film plots and run the risk of sucking as a result.
I’m a big exponent of the idea of setting the game in the same universe as the film but keep the story totally separate, Games that do this tend to be the better ones as they are such a different medium, and if nothing else expanding the universe is always cool too.

The stand alone movies sound like a great idea, Again it’s expanding the universe & if it all goes tits up it’s not to the detriment of the core movies, but I get the feeling they have learned enough from Marvel to make them work. 

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, and I don’t understand the folks bitching we haven’t seen Luke.
It’s like, you fuckers bitch if they show everything in the trailers…but then these same assholes will bitch if they try to leave some shit for the theater.
Make up your goddamn minds people!

KotOR probably won’t happen, but I do miss that era.
That first game was brilliant!
I could see them doing a game like that though for the new era.

The general consensus for the other Typecasters thus far is that Rogue One is the most anticipated of the stand-alones.
It does sound fun and interesting.

@SteBoost: A little twatty bit of me would kinda like it if it turns out Luke’s not even in ep7. 

I’m kinda trying to keep my head down a bit so I get each flick fresh, so I’m not up to speed on it beyond that teaser I saw a while back but I can’t see Rouge one not being great.
Having standalones that are in the universe but perhaps not directly connected gives them some great leeway to do something different & it’s gotta help with the writing of the main films, not so much temptation to throw everything that sounds cool into them, they can… stay on target so to speak but we still get some cool alt story line.

The roll Marvel is on just gives me a feeling that they’ve got it figured out.
Having that level of experience to call on can’t hurt.

As for a new KotOR?
Trust me, before episode 8 is out it’ll be happening.
There is a big fat cash cow just sat in the field just ready to be milked. 

ThatScoobyDoom: Oh, there ain’t no way in hell that would happen!
People would be fucking PISSED, dude. Lol

Kind of like they did on The Clone Wars.
On there they did Godzilla episodes, horror, mad scientists, every genre was explored from what I hear.

Of all the stuff Marvel has put out, I’ve only read 5 issues total, but I’ve loved it.
And the opening to the first issue of Star Wars was brilliant!
Double page spread crawler.
I loved that.

I think they may do a game like that, but I doubt it would be KotOR III.
I don’t think they are interested in that era right now.
Their interest is almost exclusively focused in just before Ep IV and forward.

Okay, this is my final question for you, man.
What does Star Wars mean to you?

@SteBoost: What doe’s It mean to me?
Hmm, It’s like that dependable awesome rock star uncle.
The one that you sometime don’t see very often but was a huge influence for the better when you were young.
No one else came close, even if he was a little hokey at times he’s always make you feel that all was going to be ok and right in the world. 

Someone once pretended to be him at a party one time about 15 years ago, That asshole touched you and made you feel bad and you hated on him for a long time. 

But now?
He’s really back and he’s bringing presents and it’s going to be awesome to see him again.
We can remissness about back in the day & hear about all the wild crazy adventures he’s been on while I’ve been doing boring grown up life things. 

I cant wait to dust off the old toys and play space wizards with him again… its been too long.

Our penultimate conversation, with @ShariSayz

ThatScoobyDoom: How far back do you go with Star Wars, where does your fandom for the saga come from?

@ShariSayz: I don’t remember exactly when it started, but it probably would have been between the ages of 12-14. 
I remember growing up and knowing that the Star Wars movies were a Big Deal, but I hadn’t actually seen them up until then.
At some point during that time period, they re-released the original trilogy in theatres, one at a time.
My best friend at the time (Jordan) and I, both burgeoning film buffs at the time, went to see all three of them on their opening nights.
Growing up in a post-Jurassic Park era, I was a little let down by how dated the films looked, but I was pulled in by the story and I remember feeling like we were participating in a rite of passage – like it was important to go see them in a proper theatre.
I’ve seen them again a few times over the years, in various situations.
They usually do a marathon on Space around this time of year so it’s sort of become a tradition to re-watch them.
I think my appreciation for both the movies and the legacy grew deeper the older I got, especially after seeing more films from that era and realizing how ahead of their time those original movies truly were.

ThatScoobyDoom: Wow, that is eerily similar to me, with 1 exception.
I saw those rereleases before the prequels came out and it didn’t grab me.
As I’ve said in other parts of this Typecast, this was post-Batman:TAS, I like 6-8 and was used to a different level of action.
At that age, these were boring old timey movies, I remember fallin asleep during the speeder bike chase in Jedi so many times.
I had to grow up a bit as a movie fan to appreciate them.

What was it that wrangled you in and made you really call yourself a fan?

@ShariSayz: That’s a good question… When I re-watched them as an adult, it was during a time in my life when I was feeling the need for something more.
At the time I was either just married or about to be (don’t remember exactly when this was), working a 9-5 and living in the suburbs, and to be honest I was bored out of my mind.
I’ve always been a sucker for a good “hero journey” story, and I think that’s what really pulled me in.
Luke was just this kid, living his life and thinking he was no one special, then he got swept up in this epic battle against the forces of evil, found this whole new pseudo-family, discovered he had secret powers and basically saved the galaxy.
He went from farm kid to Jedi hero in three movies.
I guess it spoke to that same part of me that wanted to run away to Narnia as kid – the part that always hoped that one day someone would scoop me up and take me on a grand adventure.
Also they had cool robots, lol.

ThatScoobyDoom: Until like 3 years ago, those stories were done, did you ever wish for more from the original group?

And how did you feel about the prequels?

@ShariSayz: I don’t remember ever wanting more from the original group.
I felt like the story wrapped up perfectly, and they told what needed to be told.
Actually, when they announced the prequels, I was very much against them.
Although to be fair, I was an arrogant teenager at this point.
I just thought the entire concept of a “prequel” was unnecessary.
I didn’t feel like every detail needed to be explained, and I liked that there was a bit of mystery involved.
It left room for us as the viewers to sort of fill in the blanks ourselves.
I actually refused to see the prequels for years as a form of personal (and completely pointless) protest. 

ThatScoobyDoom: That’s interesting.
Because I’ve seen quite a few (including Fitz in one of the early Typecasts) say they felt a slight depression when it was over.
Like friends had died or something.

And what did you think when you finally broke down and watched them?

@ShariSayz: I get that, I felt the same way when the last Harry Potter movie came out.
I think maybe because by the time I actually got to Star Wars, it was already over and no one expected there to be more.

To be honest, I found the prequels underwhelming.
I don’t hate them the way some people do, I just didn’t find them as interesting, although I feel like I should probably revisit them with a fresh mind.
There was some cool stuff in the last one, though.
I think the scene where they put the Vader mask on Anakin was totally worth the journey. 

ThatScoobyDoom: I felt the same way about Potter, but more so with the books than the movies.
Even though the movies are what lead me to the books, at least lead to my love of them, and I do have a huge crush on Emma Watson.
But I get your point.

And I think the reason the people who actually like the Prequels but felt underwhelmed by them like you did feel that way because the Prequels are like the Titanic.
You know Anakin is gonna hit the iceberg, for the story to be told he has too.
But I like to to cognitively reframe it a bit and think of the journey rather then the destination.
Take the long view and look at the saga as a whole.

And what might improve your enjoyment is The Clone Wars, have you seen any of that series?

@ShariSayz: You make a good point.
A lot of the suspense is gone when you know how the story is going to end.
But yeah, I’ll definitely give them another shot before at some point, hopefully before the new one comes out if I have time.
And no, I haven’t seen any of The Clone Wars.
That one takes place in between the two sets of film, right?

ThatScoobyDoom: Clone Wars takes place between 2 and 3.
It’s a great series and sheds a lot of new light on the entire saga, but even without that aspect it’s a beautiful series.
I’ve never been big on CG Animation on TV, but this rocked.

I really think you’d love Rebels though.
It’s set 5 years before A New Hope, has quite a few Clone Wars characters, but I think you can enjoy it on it’s own.

So, what are you most looking forward to beyond Ep VII?
The rest of the Saga films, one of the stand alones, or something else?

@ShariSayz: I’m cautiously optimistic about the new saga films.
I’m scared to get my hopes up, but so far everything I’ve seen looks amazing (and I just heard a new rumour that I really, really hope is true because it could be so interesting).
But if we don’t get to see a lady Jedi wield a light sabre in this new one, I’m going to be super bummed out.
But apparently Princess Leia is now General Leia, which I LOVE.
I’m definitely really looking forward to seeing the old characters pop back up again.
I’m kind of taking a wait and see approach with all this, but I would definitely go see a stand alone movie about a young Han Solo, if they do one.

ThatScoobyDoom: Cautiously Optimistic is the theme of this Typecast.
That’s how everybody, myself included, is trying to go in.

***SPOILER ALERT***
What’s the rumor?

If you want lady Jedi, The Clone Wars is definetly for you.
Luminara Unduli, Padawan Ahsoka, Aayla Secura, Bariss Offee, and I’m sure there are many more I can’t remember.
Then there is Count Dooku’s Apprentice Asajj Ventress on the Dark Side.
There’s plenty of Saber carrying badass females in the galaxy.

About Leia, I always thought there could be Alderaan survivors out in the galaxy that she could rally to the rebellion and be their Queen.
General? Yes!
But I got the feeling she probably had that title once Alderaan went kablooey, because it’s clear she holds rank in the rebellion with how she acts in Return of the Jedi.

Young Han is happening.
They’re struggling to cast him now. Lol

@ShariSayz: ***SPOILER ALERT***
The rumour is that Luke went Dark Side and he’s the main villain, which is why he hasn’t been seen in any of the ads so far.
I think that would certainly be an interesting take, and given the family history, not completely outside the realm of possibility.
I don’t even remember where I heard it, and there’s nothing to back it up so it could be completely wrong.
But I think Luke would be so much more interesting as a villain, and we all know Hamill is totally capable of being a badass.

Clone Wars sounds awesome.
Next time I need a good binge watch, I’ll definitely check it out.

I hope they find someone good for young Han.
I think heard something about Aaron Taylor-Johnson but I’m not sure he has the swagger.
I always feel like it’s better to go with a lesser known actor for these iconic characters.
The character himself has so much history behind it, I’m not sure you need a big name.
And sometimes it’s better to do without the baggage that a more famous actor might bring.
It’ll be interesting to see who they pick, that’s for sure.

ThatScoobyDoom: Ah, that has been around since the jump.
That’s something that I flip flop on, cause it feels like it would cheapen Luke’s journey from IV-VI.
But it would be cool.

I can’t recommend it enough.

Yeah, if you get Chris Pratt or Bradly Cooper (both were rumored for Indy when the talk was that would be recast) they bring way too much to the point they’d both be distracting.
ATJ…Kick-Ass?
I can’t think of anybody I would pick to take up the role.
But I heard they have gone through 2500 actors and still haven’t found the right man.

@ShariSayz: I kind of felt the same about Luke being a villain, in that it would take away from his journey, but I think if they made it a story about redemption it could work.
Like if they were able to save him from the Dark Side in the way that he couldn’t do for his father, it would be a nice full circle moment.
Now that it’s in my head it’s kind of all I want.
But I guess we’ll have to wait and see…

I would totally be into Chris Pratt as Indy, but not Han.
I love Chris Pratt, but he’s always very… Chris Pratt-y.
He never really disappears into the role for me.
I can’t think of anyone I would pick for the role either.
I feel like they’re going to find the guy bussing tables at some diner in Ohio or something.
I’m glad that they’re being thorough though.
I can’t even imagine the amount of pressure on the guy who eventually gets it.
Talk about some big shoes to fill.

ThatScoobyDoom: I agree.
It would be a very compelling story.
But I’m not sure.
I’m trying not to dig too deep on it.
I want to think they might be keeping Luke from us solely because they don’t want to reveal everything before the 18th.
They want some mystery, something to keep casual fans intrigued.

I don’t think I’ve seen Pratt in anything, but I’m glad that Harrison is keeping that role.
Fuck recasting, Indy ain’t Batman or James Bond.
But as for the Solo movie, I wonder if they would do something like what is up with the next Die Hard and have Ford in a sort of wrap around story with some young kid running around has young Han.

Okay, my final question for you.
On a personal level, what does Star Wars mean to you?

@ShariSayz: That’s a good question.
I’ve been thinking about this, trying to put it into words.
When you look at the actual narrative of the films, there’s the idea that good can conquer evil, so matter how stacked the odds.
There’s also the idea that family doesn’t have to be blood (or, in this case, human).
Actually, those are both very important themes in most of the stories that I’m particularly drawn to. 

On a different level, I think there’s also this secret handshake quality of being a Stars Wars fan.
For a long time, there’s was this idea that it was “for nerds”, and there are probably still people who will scoff at it, but in a way, that’s helped us nerds find each other.
It created sort of a cultural clubhouse.
Star Wars isn’t just a movie series, there’s an entire subculture built around it – one that contains a universe of references, inside jokes and pretty sweet merchandise.
I think that’s also a big part of why I’m drawn to it, because it helps to build a connection to other people with similar interests and values. 

And finally, here’s @Fitzman73

ThatScoobyDoom: Way back in the very 1st Typecast, and in a few since, you told us about you and your dad kind of bonding a bit over Star Wars.
That got me wondering, has he seen anything from TFA?

@Fitzman73: Yeah he’s seen some, I think I showed him the first trailer.
Didn’t get too much of a reaction, but then again that’s not surprising.
I asked him on Thanksgiving, so what day are we going to see Star Wars and he was like huh?
I said it comes out the 18th what day are we going?  Ha.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, folks of his generation tend to be more reserved.
Not as excitable as yours, mine, and this new crop of bastards.

Would you call him more of a casual fan?

@Fitzman73: Yeah I would say casual at best.
He definitely doesn’t know the name of the Ewok shaman or that there is a Kyber crystal inside a lightsaber.  

Westerns are his Star Wars.
He has an unhealthy obsession with them.

ThatScoobyDoom: Oh christ, my Dad is the same way.
Always with the fuckin’ westerns.

What is that like for you as a hardcore fan?
Because, I mean, clearly you both share a love for it, but your love is more “hopelessly, head over heels”.
Do you ever whip out Kyber crystal at him and he reaches for holy water to get the demon out of ya?
Cause that’s how most folks I know react to me.

@Fitzman73: No, haven’t gone terribly hard core on him since I was a kid.
I’m sure I annoyed the shit out of him back then though.
He likes them but he’s much more in the “dude it’s just a movie” camp. 

I think most of his enjoyment probably came from me enjoying them and having it be something we went to see together.

ThatScoobyDoom: With that in mind, has he watched any of TCW or Rebels?
Or is he like my Dad in that respect “cartoons are baby shit”?

@Fitzman73: No he’s not like that, but he hasn’t watched any either I don’t think.
He might’ve watched some by accident with my nephew, but he definitely hasn’t sought it out.

It’s crazy, but literally if it’s not a western (the older the better), local news, or something the grandkids are watching, it basically doesn’t exist in his world. Lol.

ThatScoobyDoom: Oh, I know that so well, sir. Hahaha

Let’s switch gears a bit, you and I have talked about a lot of it privately, but lets go over a wee bit of it.
What have you thought of a lot of the stuff we’ve seen from TFA since last we talked about it?

@Fitzman73: So far it all looks great.
But honestly I’m over the trailers and TV spots.
They’re starting to get pretty maddening since they seem to recycling a lot of the same footage.
I mean I get why they’re so calculated in what they’re allowing people to see ahead of time, but it’s a little too much of a cock tease to keep releasing new spots several times a week and showing 90% of the same stuff over and over.
At this point I’m just ready for the entire film.
Stop fucking around already and let’s just get it on.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, I’m seeing that reaction quite a bit.
With the way they’re doing that, it’s making people feel like it’s further away than it really is, upping the anticipation too high too soon.

What that’s been released to the mainstream had peaked your interest the most since last we talked?

@Fitzman73: The stuff about Maz Kanada probably.
I wasn’t that interested in her before but now that they’ve said she has a special gift and is thousands of years old?
I gotta know more

ThatScoobyDoom: Oh yes, and the potential ramifications of that life span?
That gift?
Damn dude!
It sounds like Maz has seen some shit.

They’ve peaked my interest in Snoke, too.
A giant dude played by Andy Serkis?
That has potential to be astonishing.

I also wonder about Von Sydow, we know next to nothing about him beyond the fact that his character and Daisy’s Rey have some sort of special connection.

@Fitzman73: I just read something that would seem to contradict that 25 foot high Snoke claim that Serkis said awhile back.
The guy actually doing the CG said 7 foot something and very thin?

Oh and fuck what I just said.
THIS has me the most interested …

https://m.facebook.com/SWActionNews/photos/pcb.10153388820497153/10153388820257153/?type=3&source=48

ThatScoobyDoom: That’s still pretty damn big, unless you spend a lot of time in circuses, wrestling locker rooms, or around basketball courts.

Lemme just throw another ***SPOILER ALERT*** on here, just for shits and giggles.

HOLY SHIT, DUDE!!!
Is that her staff as you’ve previously guessed?

@Fitzman73: No, looks like Luke’s blue saber to me.
Which begs the question, was Harrison Ford fucking around on that twitter Q&A the other week when he said his favorite action scene was the Rey vs. Ren lightsaber duel or was it for real?

Also, this makes me think Finn may lose a hand….

ThatScoobyDoom: This has been something the 2 of us have struggled with since it happened.
If he just let it slip in an interview then he woulda faced an NDA fine. But something like the Twitter Q&A he had to have PR folks up his ass clearing answers before he hit send tweet.
So, I guess he wasn’t bullshittin’.

I can see why.
But picture this, Rey finds the blade, gives it to Leia, who gives it to Finn.
Let the dude keep his gorram hand.
3PO lost his arm, ain’t that enough?

@Fitzman73: It’s the law of Star Wars bro.
Every film has at least one dismemberment by lightsaber.
It’s a fact.

Ep I: Maul is cut in half
Ep II: Anakin loses an arm, Jango loses a head
Ep III: Dooku loses both hands and his head, Mace loses an arm, Anakin loses both legs and his good arm
Ep IV: Walrus man loses an arm
Ep V: Luke loses a hand
Ep VI: Vader loses a cyborg arm

So I’d say the chances are favorable that at least someone is gonna be an amputee after this.

Of course you do make a good point, it could be there because she supposedly finds it originally.
EXCEPT.
This isn’t a Rey on Jakku figure now is it?
This is presumably after she’s joined the resistance. 

I don’t know, this could go so many directions it’d mind boggling.
The possibilities, for now, are just about endless. 

If it turns out that those 2 do in fact fight, you better believe that was no accident that he let it “slip”.
Like I said it was either him trolling as a goof, or a very premeditated and blessed answer.
A tantalizing nugget to stir the pot.

ThatScoobyDoom: I know, man. Haha

I don’t know.
The figure looks like her Jakku gear.
But the card image’s gear looks darker, more polished, sophisticated.

That there is for true indeed though.
Endless possibilities and who knows what was behind him letting that slip.

Just for a bit, I wanna shift to the comics.
Have you been keeping up with ’em?

@Fitzman73: One last not on that figure, it does literally say Resistance outfit on it.
But as far as costumes, it’s probably just what she’s wearing under her flowy Jakku kit.

I’ve kept up with the comics a bit.
There’s kind of a content overload at the moment for me personally.
Too much shit all at once.
I did read the Force Awakens prelude mini series which is good but mostly a huge cock tease.
And I picked up the first collection of the new Star Wars series.
Prior to the TBP, I’d only read issue 1 of that series and felt it was so-so.
It gets much better and more interesting as it goes along.

ThatScoobyDoom: I didn’t even notice that.
Good eye.

So nothing earth shattering happening…yet in the comics?
I dug that first issue of Star Wars.
I used walmart as a library the other night and read the first issue of Kanan, that was fuckin’ awesome!

Speaking of huge cock teases, and so we don’t spoil it, we should let the folks know we will be breaking down Shattered Empire at some point.

@Fitzman73: Yeah Kanan is on my list.
I think it’s in trade now too.

The art in that Star Wars series is awesome.
I dug the first issue too, I guess I was just expecting more or something.
But the plot does thicken in subsequent issues. 

The other titles I’m honestly not that interested in.
Although I’ve heard they’re good.
Maybe some day I’ll get to them.

ThatScoobyDoom: It is in trade, that’s how I read it.
I really really dug it.
I’ve read many stories where the moment happens, and it’s awesome everytime.
“The time has come, execute Order 66.”
Chilling.

That first issue has my favorite opening to a comic ever.
2 page STAR WARS is a great way to kick off a new era.

The Lando and Chewie books looked great.
I’m so damn interested in the Obi-Wan/Anakin book, I’ve always craves more stories from that time period.

2 questions before I hit you with the final.
1. How do you feel about 3PO having 2 gold legs now?
2. What are you most looking forward to other than VII?

@Fitzman73: Aw fuck I forgot about the Anakin Obi-Wan book.
That looks awesome.
That one I’m interested in.
Is that early next year?

Believe it or not, I didn’t realize he was back to having 2 gold legs.
I was too distracted by that red arm.
I can’t wait to see if there’s some reason given for it or if it’s just left to our imagination.
But the gold legs don’t bother me.
They were both gold in episode 3 too I believe.

What am I looking forward too besides episode 7?
I’m looking forward to the back half of Rebels season 2.
They’ve really taken things up a notch this season and I can’t wait for the inevitable confrontation between Vader and *****SPOILERS***** Ahsoka.
Especially since they’ve made it clear that both parties know the other is alive and well.
They’re actively hunting and spying on each other.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yes!
I think February or March.
Not sure if it’s 4 issues or longer.

There is a 1 shot comic coming out this month that explains the Red Arm.
Yeah, he had 2 golds in Sith.
When I recently saw a pic that had 2 gold legs, I gotta admit, I was a little let down.
I like the idea that after 60 years, 3PO is a mismatched droid that’s made up of all kinds of spare parts just to keep him up and running.

Have they really gotten that across?
Last I heard Ahsoka just had a…feeling about Vader.
That sounds awesome!

@Fitzman73: I don’t know, I would say 3PO is probably kept up and running like you suggest, but those are just coverings right?
It’s clearly not a big deal to gold plate those coverings.
They did it once between ep2 and 3, so it’s not unreasonable to think that once the rebels were able to stop running as much after Jedi and got themselves somewhat safely set up in their own bases and safeworlds at some point they would’ve redipped him just like you’d restore an old car or something.
Given him a proper fixing up.
Since then obviously he’s been beaten around some more, possibly lost his original arm and had it replaced with whatever was handy maybe. 

Ahsoka hasn’t come out and revealed that to anyone that she knows it’s Anakin, but her reactions and subtle comments make it pretty clear that she knows and wants answers.
And Vader explicitly knows she’s out there.
I think he even says when he realizes “So. The padawan lives”. 

ThatScoobyDoom: I know it’s not a big thing, and you are probably right about them restoring him eventually, but I think it’s a nice subtle sign that he has been through some shit.
Just this patchwork droid hobbling around with an assload of colors is a cool visual, me thinks.

Oh shit, son.
That just gave me chills…wow!
Hopefully that shit pops up on YT when it happens.

Okay, so my final question, and I think you’ll have a great answer for this one.
On a very personal level, what does Star Wars mean to you?

@Fitzman73: That’s a good question that I’m not sure I have a real good answer for.

I’m trying to not get overly theatrical about it or over exaggerate it, but really when I think about it, it’s really one of the foundations of my entire development. 

It’s been with me from the time I was 4 years old, it’s been with me longer than my sister for Christ’s sake. 

It’s like another appendage or something.
I’ve had very few years in my life where it wasn’t there in some form or another.
Even during the dark times of like ’85 to ’95 it was present in my life if in nothing more than conversations among friends.

At the same time, I don’t want to come off as some kind of weirdo that all that matters to me is Star Wars.
And everything has to be related to Star Wars.

But honestly, it kinda means happiness.
It means security and safety.
It means friends.
It was one of the things that talk me early on the importance of being good and doing right.

image

And there you have it.

Snoke said it in that first trailer, and that’s why I chose that line for the title of this Typecast.
There Has Been An Awakening in fandom and I think we have all felt it.
Some might say Star Wars is just a movie, just a franchise, but obviously it is more.
It means way more to everybody who enjoys it and that is something special.
It truly does bind us.

I want to thank @SpiderScooby, @CheeryAnt, @SteBoost, @ShariSayz, & @Fitzman73 for taking the time to do this.
It was done in a bit of a rush and they all came through for me and I can’t express how much I appreciate it.
If you are on twitter, please go follow all 5 of them.

Share this post on Twitter with the hashtag #Typecast.

And finally.
This world is a very hard place, full of people spewing hateful, shitty bile.
Now more than ever, it is important to combat that in any way you can.
A smile to a random person on a shitty day or just a kind word can help more than you know.

Thank you for reading, hope to see you around here again real soon.

Typecast #16: Oops, We Did It Again!

Hey Gang, welcome back!
We’ve got another special installment of the Typecast for you here.
Remember that time Fitz and I did a Typecast (it was #9) and turned it into a podcast (which you can listen to here or read here)?
Well, as the title above suggests, we done gone and did it again!

This time around @Fitzman73 and I read issue 17 of the old Marvel Star Wars comic, and had a great conversation that you can listen to by going to this link:

http://justjumptotheend.libsyn.com/bonus-episode-2-oops-we-did-it-again

This conversation appears just as it was had, spelling and grammatical cock ups intact, to maintain the honesty of the whole thing.

The good sir Fitz’s name will appear in red and link to his podcast that he does with his sister, @Tacky1Z, Just Jump To The End, available at http://JJ2End.com.

Big thanks to Fitz for doing this again and putting in the hours to record and edit.
All that said, take it away me…

image

ThatScoobyDoom: For those that have been paying attention to our read throughs of these old Marvel Star Wars comics, we’re skipping ahead a bit this time around to issue 17 which is a stand alone prequel to Episode IV.

Before we get balls deep into it, you’ve said before that finding issues back then was hit and miss, is this one of the issues you were able to pick up back in the day?

@Fitzman73: Ya know I honestly don’t remember.

I don’t think so, this issue didn’t ring any bells the first time I read it in the omnibus, but it’s possible.
I’ll check in a minute.

This is a really odd issue, and you’re right it really is a “prequel”, and it’s really crazy how similar some of it is to what we would see in Episode I, or even in the EU novel Kenobi that came out a few years ago.

ThatScoobyDoom: Interesting.

Without getting too far ahead of ourselves, it was definitely memorable for me, but I’ll get into that later when we get to the story.

I still haven’t read Kenobi, but yes.
This issue feels like it has been REALLY influential to alot of stuff in the years since!

Let’s get into it starting with the cover, what do you think of it?

@Fitzman73: I liked the cover actually.
It felt like a movie poster.
It incorporates elements from the story that were more or less depicted accurately, unlike some of the bait and switch covers we saw earlier in the series.

It’s not terribly busy either, and the colors are all sane choices, again, not like the whacked out bright gaudy colors we’ve seen before.

There’s no interior credit for the cover artist, but you can see the person’s signature in the bottom left corner, and unless I’m very much mistaken, this cover was done by legendary X-men artist Dave Cockrum, who had a long run with Chris Claremont on that book in the 70s.

Which….brings me to my first revelation with this issue and that is the plot of this story is actually credited to who?
Chris Claremont.
Small world the 70s were.

ThatScoobyDoom: Agreed.

It truly gives the feel with no weird crap like those 1st 10.

I will admit though that the cover scared me, seeing SPECIAL ISSUE and knowing it’s a stand alone story made me think this was gonna be nothing but BS filler worth less than the paper the original was printed on.
Was shockingly wrong in that assumption.

Yeah, I’d say given Claremont’s involvement, that’s a safe bet.
I’ve never read his X-Men run but I know it’s beloved.
If this is any indication of his work on that, that must really rock, man.

But stay on target, lets talk a bit about the art before we get into the story.
Any panels really pop out for you?

@Fitzman73: Well you know I’m pretty nitpicky, and while I’m a total mark for Herb Trimpe’s artwork, what stood out the most for me, unfortunately, is how much “Aunt Beru” did NOT resemble Aunt Beru.

Did it bug you as much as it did me?
Some of the other designs were a but funky but she was like who in the fuck is this supposed to be?
I thought it was her hot sister or something.
Or the maid.

image

ThatScoobyDoom: I don’t know if it bothered me as much as it did you, but it was jarring for damn sure.

She almost looks like Margot Kidder as Lois.
Certainly nothing like the kindly old Aunt May type that the movie showed.
The only other thing that stuck out to me as strange was Uncle Owen, he looks more like Clegg Lars than Owen.
Nothing else stands out as bad or out of place…though those “skyhoppers” are something that I’d consider a funky design.
What are the other things what felt funky to you?

Overall, I’m pretty happy with the art for the first time in the 11 issues we’ve gone through.
I think the Banthas, which we know from previous issues have been hard for artists to nail, look impeccable, Biggs looks like Biggs, the Sandpeople look like bloody Sandpeople!

@Fitzman73: Well you can thank Herb Trimpe for the art.

I’m a big fan of his work on the ’82 G.I. Joe series.
This issue is pretty distinctly his style.
They look like they could’ve come straight from the pages of a Joe comic (for example page 304 second panel on the bottom, that’s a generic Joe if I ever saw one).
Side note, he also drew the first appearance oimage

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It’s no surprise that this issue was good, or at least leaps and bounds better than the ones we’ve already talked about.
The creative team on this on single issue is insane.

Roll call:

Dave Cockrum, iconic X-Men artist does the cover.

Herbe Trimpe on pencils.

Al Milgrom does the inking.

Plot by motherf’ing Chris Claremont?

And to top it all off it’s actually written by Archie Goodwin whose resume is a MILE fucking long.
Name a comic in the 70s and he either wrote on it or edited it.
Guaranteed.
He was the first writer on the original Iron Man solo series.
He created the character of Luke Cage.
Co-created the first Spider-Woman.
And was editor in chief of Marvel for a spell.

If this issue would’ve sucked, I think I would’ve had to burn my comic book nerd card.

And actually I take it back.
I flipped through this again real quick and Beru was really the only funky design.
Except for Luke’s daydream space battle.
Those ships are pretty non-Star Warsy.
Actually the one at the top of page 302 looks almost EXACTLY like the fighters that would show up a few years later in the Buck Rogers TV series.
Also, in that panel the pilot in the foreground (Luke?) is a dead ringer for Ace the Skystriker pilot in the old G.I. Joe books.
Almost the same exact pressure suit in my opinion.

The Skyhoppers are pretty accurate though.
They’re definitely odd, but that’s pretty close to what they’re supposed to look like.
These have kind of a protruding nose/cockpit though and I think in “canon” they have flat fronts.

ThatScoobyDoom: Ladies and Gentlemen, school is in session and you professor for this week was just Fitz, dropping nerd knowledge all up in our faces!

I noticed your generic Joe for sure. Haha

He drew Wolvie?
That’s why the noses look so familiar!
There were a few spots like page 310 where the noses just stuck out something I should recognize, but I couldn’t place it.

Yeah, it’s for sure a stellar fuckin’ line up.
And if folks don’t know who ARCHIE GODDAMN GOODWIN is…they need to go edumacate themselves on what comicbooks are.

It woulda been a massive screwing of many pooches for this to suck.
Like, something seriously cosmically fuckin’ wrong.

I liked that daydream for a specific reason.
Luke is stuck on this dusty dirt ball with no connection to anything, sure he wants to go off and join the Academy, but he probably hasn’t seen anything more than distant flashes in the sky.
So I like that the art doesn’t look specifically Star Warsy, the random sci-fi look fits perfectly.

Those skyhoppers are canon?
They almost look like scaled down versions of shuttle Tydirium.

@Fitzman73: Yeah they’re canon.

There’s one in A New Hope.
You know when Luke is fixing up the droids and the scene starts with him on the couch playing with a model spaceship thingy?
That’s a skyhopper.

You get to fly one in a mission in the old N64 Rogue Squandron game too.
I think that was the first actual rendering of it outside of that little model in the original movie.
They do kinda look like a tiny one man shuttle tyderium but I’m pretty sure their noses are cut off and the fronts are flat like a bus.
Not very aerodynamic.

Speaking of that Rogue Squadron game, the mission in that game is one of the things I thought of when reading this issue.
It’s also a Beggars Canyon run in a skyhopper, and I always thought that was the first time you see Beggars Canyon, but no, it happens in this very issue from like 15-20 years before.
It’s close enough in resemblance that I wouldn’t be surprised if the game designers used this issue as inspiration

Oh and nope I was wrong.
Just looked up images of a skyhopper and their fronts are almost exactly as depicted in the comic, not flat at all.
Some of the angles on the images though produce kind of an optical illusion that makes it look flat at first.
But in profile they’re definitely not flat.
Wings fold up too just like shuttle T.

ThatScoobyDoom: I don’t think I ever noticed that, I guess a rewatch is in order to try to spot it.

Speaking of Begger’s Canyon, lets just get into the story cause I can’t think of anything to say about the art besides it’s DAMN good!

Our story starts with Luke in the Cockpit of the Millenium Falcon where he starts reminiscing about his days back on Tatooine.
Given our harshness in previous issues for similar set-up, did this smack you as a bit hamfisted?

@Fitzman73: Yeah a bit.

They seem to use this “I’m alone flying through space and bored and shit let me have a flashback” device a lot.
This is at least the 3rd time they’ve used it in 17 issues (maybe more since we skipped ahead a few issues).

The other times it was usually to give readers a “last time, on Star Wars” type recap.
Which by today’s standards feels SUUUUUPER lame and hamfisted, almost insulting to the reader.
But back in the day, before direct market comic shops let alone the internet, it was easy to miss a bunch of issues and there was really no way to find out what happened unless they did a recap like those.

This one was different though.
Right from the first panel the writing alone is so much more mature and well done that I knew it wasn’t going to be a cheezy flashback.

ThatScoobyDoom: I totally agree, but I felt given how harsh we were before it seemed only fair to point out they do the same here.

It wasn’t only a “last time on Star Wars”, mind you.
At least once it was a “lets check in with these characters for a page so you don’t forget they exist”.
It’s handled totally different here, it’s him reminiscing and appreciating where he came from and how much things have changed in the weeks since he left.

So, as we head back to Tattooine, we get our 1st glimpse that this isn’t gonna be like the first 10 issues.
We see Luke actually bullseye image

a womp

rat fr

om his

T-16.

More than even the movie issues, to me it feels like for the first time somebody actually paid attention to the fuckin’ movie!
What do you think of that?
Do you agree?

@Fitzman73: Absolutely agree.
The fact that you’re actually seeing things that were alluded to in the film was really cool.

And you’re right it’s like somebody finally realized hey ya know, we could in fact connect these comics to the movies, we don’t always have to invent our own weird shit.

I thought the womp rats were a great touch.
I also liked that they even included Camie and Fixer, who were ultimately cut from the movie, but those scenes were in the comic adaptation (see prior Typecasts) so it was cool to bring them back and reinforce what Luke’s circle of friends looked like.
They didn’t just create all new random people.

I also liked how they spent time expanding a little on what the fuck they actually DO on that farm.
Not a lot of detail really, but it helped paint the picture that this is serious business.
Owen isn’t just being a dick, it’s really critical that Luke stay on top of his responsibilities.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, it just works.

I’m just gonna flat out say it, I love this issue because it has everything, man.
With 1 small exception that I’ll mention in just a second, this thing still plays well today!

That 1 exception though is when Luke gets back to the farm he asks to go the the Beggers Canyon send off for Biggs, Owen is about ready to shut that shit down when Beru steps in and says Biggs is Luke’s best friend.
Then she tells Owen that he let a brother leave without saying good-bye, obviously talking about Anakin.
That totally gets a pass since this is pre-Empire and pre-Prequel so we know Anakin and Owen were never close, but that was interesting.
I like that when Owen left Beru doesn’t elaborate on it either.

I dug the Fixer mention too, it’s the first time that they actually make an attempt at a real continuity.
Not just the weird random sci-fi shit they create on their own.

Does it make Owen seem like even slightly less of a dick though?
He seems like a bit of an asshole ta me, in the movie I can understand him not wanting Luke to chase after that damn wizard, but here Luke just wants to have a little fun and say bye to an old friend.
Owen is still like “fuck that, work boy”.

@Fitzman73: You saying that he’s like “fuck your fun times, get to work boy!” makes me think maybe he’s really not that much of a dick after all.

Obi-wan turns over this tiny little baby to Owen and Beru and is like hey keep an eye on this for me and make sure it doesn’t get broken.
They have to know who his father is, and even if they don’t know he turned dark (which I always felt like Obi-Wan must’ve told them at some point) at the very least they know he was a reckless Jedi and got himself killed.

So now Luke grows up and he’s hanging out with these people who are all going off to join the military and doing dangerous shit out in the desert and all that.
I think more than anything, all of his dickish behavior is Owen trying to make sure Luke gets as little time to be with those people as possible so that he doesn’t even get the bug to leave the planet much less join the military and get himself killed.
They probably don’t have detailed instructions from Obi-Wan, or daily interaction with him, but I’m sure the prime directive was “keep this boy safe and as anonymous as possible”.

Even when he says oh by the way this new droid belongs to Kenobi they’re immediately like oh that dude’s crazy stay away from him.
You know they know him and they know he’s not dangerous but it’s all about squashing anything Luke ever brings up so that he learns not to question anything.
Owen is going to keep him trapped on that farm, in his mind, forever.

So, is he really a dick?
Or is he just playing a role?
I tend to think it’s a little of both.
Judging by old man Lars in Ep2 and the harsh life he’s lived, Owen is bound to be grizzled and gruff, but at the same time I think most of his dickishness is really just him attempting to smother Luke for as long as possible.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’d guess that Owen and Beru probably don’t know that Anakin is Vader, but that Obi-Wan did tell them that Anakin was amongst the most powerful people in the galaxy and that Vader and the Emperor might be looking to find powerful kids or maybe even trying to find Anakin’s kid.

So I agree that he probably said don’t let Luke know that he might be one of the most powerful people in the galaxy, but I really don’t see how being an asshole is necessary.
Gruffness for gruffness sake can and, as we saw with Luke, will sow seeds of dissent.
Luke was almost resentful of Owen holding him back until Owen died.

But now you have me wondering what that relationship between Kenobi and the Lars family was like and when Owen started, in your words, playing this role.
I mean, in the tail end of Dark Lord: Rise Of Darth Vader there is a scene of Obi-Wan following them and watching them and they seem like a happy family.
And I know that’s not canon, but I figure everything can be potential canon until they explictly make it non-canon with a new story, so at what point did they go from “happy family” to “Luke, get your head out of the damn stars and get to working you little shit!”?

@Fitzman73: They show basically the same thing in the “Kenobi” novel.

He would basically make the trip across the desert every few weeks and spy on them from a distance to make sure shit was going ok.
So official canon or not (I don’t think that book is “canon” either) I’d say it’s pretty logical to assume that was happening.

I mentioned earlier and we’ll get back to it eventually, but this issue has a lot of the same ideas in it that show up in Kenobi, so somewhere there’s got to be some ounce of “canon” there.

ThatScoobyDoom: Which is kind of comforting if you think about it.

No matter how many times they visit the theme, no matter which writer handles it, Obi-Wan remains the same.

Let me know about those elements as they pop up.
So Beru basically brow beats Owen into letting Luke head to Begger’s Canyon and Luke heads off to work on his Skyhopper.
While doing his tune up he slips into a day dream about swashbuckling across the galaxy and saving a girl.

I mentioned this earlier, but I like the random sci-fi feel of this, it’s almost definitely unintentional, but it really sells the fact that Luke has never broken atmo before, he has no clue what it’s really like out in timage

he real war?

w

What did you think of it?

@Fitzman73: Even though I knocked the ship designs a little before (although not really because I loved that Buck Rogers show), I liked this sequence. Although it’s funny when you think about it because it’s a daydream within (essentially) another daydream.

I liked it though, kinda gives you a look inside his mind.
Something similar to this is what I imagine is playing in his head during A New Hope as he’s watching the sunset.

And you’re right, the funky ship designs and flight suits really lend to the idea that this kid knows jack shit about what real fighters look like.

Did you catch how they called him “Commander” Skywalker?
It’s cool when you realize the writers put that in a few years before he would be called that in Empire.
A little unintentional foreshadowing perhaps.

ThatScoobyDoom: Chris Nolan stole Inception from this!!!

I didn’t think about that, but that’s a great point.
This very well could be what he was doing, just lost in thought, daydreaming of what is possible.
I like that!

It’s a great bit of unintended bonding of storytelling and art that plays well, even in this post Clone Wars world of Star Wars.
It works beautifully.

I read it but I didn’t really notice it.
That is pretty cool.
Seems to be alot of unintended forshadowing.

@Fitzman73: Definitely.

So what did you think about the Skyhopper race?
Again we get some creative synchronicity between this issue and something we’d see again decades later.
I thought showing Luke in this race, while not as elaborate or dramatic, was very much the same thing we see Anakin doing in Ep1’s pod race.
Maneuvering through a course that’s virtually impossible to survive with human reflexes.

But, this time it’s all humans in the race and by the end everyone has dropped out except for Luke…….and Biggs.
Which is cool to see them race each other, the two hottest pilots on Tatooine.
However, what does this say about Biggs?
Is he just a really good pilot or could he maybe have a touch of Force Sensitivity himself?
Obviously it wasn’t enough to save him during the Death Star Battle like it was for Luke, but since no one else but those two made through the entire canyon, makes me wonder.

ThatScoobyDoom: That was my very first thought as well, podracing runs in the family.

My second thought was “huh, so he actually made the trench run before Episode IV”.
Because think about it, the whole point of this Skyhopper race is to get to the largest Womp Rat Burrow which can only be approached through Begger’s Canyon.
Only way to hit that exhaust port was through the trench.

Unlike the last issues we read where Han made a trench run to destroy the giganto turd monster, this actually works well.
It’s an interesting little piece of action.

I don’t think it means Biggs is force sensitive, because if it does then you have to wonder if Han is.
Han has accomplished many more spectacular feats and I feel pretty safe in saying that he has zero connection to the force.
I think Biggs is just that damn good!

So thus far, it’s all been fun and games.
Biggs won the race, Jawas got pissy cause nobody wrecked, alls good in this hood…until suddenly a Militia Scout crashes his speeder and warns of impending doom from Tusken Raiders!!!

image

1 question for you.
1. What the fuck is the Militia?

@Fitzman73: Touche.

You make a good point there about Han not being force sensitive.
It makes more sense that Biggs wouldn’t be, that was all just wild speculation.

Ah ha!
Yes.
Now we get to the heart of the matter and the biggest thing that to me connects this story to the Kenobi novel.
In that book they have local militias, kinda.
They’re basically like volunteer firemen.
When one farm raises the alarm about a Tusken attack (which apparently happens A LOT) the other local farmers arm themselves and come a runnin’ to help drive them off.
It’s very Old West frontier days type shit.

Basically they kind of depict the sand people like Native Americans and the moisture farmers like settlers in the Old West encroaching on their lands.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’d think Obi-Wan would have sensed Biggs if he’d been force sensitive also.

It’s an interesting notion, but I think that’s barking up the wrong tree.

Reeeaaaallllllyyyyyy!
That’s interesting!
I’m still a dozen or so novels away, were the Militia men mentioned in the Episode IV novel or is this here the first mention of it?
I think that’s pretty fuckin’ cool if this is the first mention and then John Jackson Miller mentions it in Kenobi, shows the dude knows his history.
FUCK!
I wanna read that Kenobi book, man.

That’s a classic trope.
And based on the reaction here and the Episode II novel, yeah…I’d say that the Tuskens attack ALOT!!!

@Fitzman73: It’s been awhile since I’ve read the ep4 novelization, but I’m pretty sure they don’t mention any kind of militia.

I think this comic is the first time.
But since it shows up again so far in the future it makes me wonder if it was in some of GL’s story notes.
I can’t imagine JJM used this as inspiration necessarily, it’d be such an obscure pull, but it could be that he was looking at the same notes on Tatooine that Claremont may have been given.
Maybe.
Again, wild speculation.

One of the storylines in Kenobi is all from the point of view of a band of Tuskens.
So you get to see how both worlds function, the farmers and the Tuskens.
Feels very much like a Western.

What did you think of the Tusken using his gaffi stick as a projectile instead of just a club?

ThatScoobyDoom: Welp, I just asked John Jackson Miller on twitter.

https://twitter.com/TheScoobyDoom/status/645467173226434560
Hopefully by the end of this we have a definitive answer from the man himself.

Really?
What was that like?
I imagine their brains to be chaotic and disjointed.
Almost like a ADD Puppy on speed.

I didn’t know what to think of that honestly.
Those sticks have always kinda confused me based on the design.
They look like javelins to me, making it seem like the most logical way to utilize it would be as a projectile, but that curve at the end kinda shoots that down cause it sorta fucks the aerodynamics of it all to hell unless you’re at a close range like this.
Also, given the weirdo shapes on the ends it looks like it could be some sort of low energy weapon.
Like a blaster rifle meant to stun to prolong torture or something.
That curve makes me think it could be used like a propeller too, swing it over your head and bring it down to crack some poor sap in the side of the mush.

Context, the Tuskens attack Luke and crew at their little post-race party, after the militia dude warns them then passes out or dies (not sure they made it clear what happened to him).
One Tusken chucks his stick at Biggs and hits him in the shoulder. Turns out, filthy prick dipped the stick tip in Sand Bat Venom which appears to be highly toxic!
Whatcha make of that image

tur

n o

f e

ven

ts?

Turns out he came up with it himself, but he later found a mention of Militias in the Tattooine Galaxy Guide.

https://twitter.com/jjmfaraway/status/645471776672215040

@Fitzman73: I saw that.
Awesome.
Go straight to the source.
At least we don’t have to waste any more time speculating.

The sand people in that book were portrayed very much like indiginous people, a little more primal, very superstitious with strong traditions and their own cosmology and creation myths.
It was pretty interesting.
They were more normal and less monstrous than you’d think given what we’ve seen in the films.

I always looked at those sticks as improvised weapons.
I don’t think they all look exactly the same, other than they’re all blunt force club type weapons.
They look to me like they’re fashioned from salvaged junk.
Whatever bits of metal they found that looks sharp, heavy, or pointy.
Makeshift.

Of course it was dipped in poison!
Haven’t you ever seen a cowboys and Indians picture?
It’s always dipped in poison.

Seriously though, it was a nice way (even though a little cliche) to introduce a time lock into the story.
It wasn’t dramatic enough that they needed to get into town quick to sound the alarm about the raiders coming, now Luke has to fly the most impossible route through the canyon in order to save his best friend’s liimage

fe (fo

r a co

uple y

ears a

nyway)

ThatScoobyDoom: The wonderful world we live in, you can go straight to an author and ask all the questions you’d ever desire to know the answers too.
Alot of authors gladly answer too.

Yeah, that’s not what I’d expect at all, especially given what could have potentially happened to Anakin’s poor mother.
I’d think them to be unthinking, uncaring, unchecked beasts.

I should have, but the look of them is just so strange that it seems like it could be anything from a lead pipe to some sort of energy weapon.
It is a great design.

It seems like an unnecessary raising of the stakes, not nearly as bad as the last arc we read, but still.
The unflyable chasm should be enough of a challenge.
Do you mind the whole “nobody has ever done it before, but Luke has to at least try” thing?
I think that may be the only thing that sticks out as a little too hokey for me, ya know…given Luke JUST SAID something about how great Biggs was for making it through Begger’s Canyon when even he couldn’t.

@Fitzman73: I think that’s why the poisoning was necessary.

It gave Luke no choice but to do the impossible or die trying.
As a result he finds out that he’s capable of greater things than being a farmer, and that even when something seems impossible, there’s always a chance to succeed.
It really is the trench run, and seeing how he aced this you can see where all that bravado and confidence came from when they attacked the Death Star.
This story kinda shows you that it wasn’t all just him being young and naive.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’ll be honest, I’m only trying to poke a hole so we don’t come off as blinded fan boys just slobbering on the balls of this book just for cause it says Stary Wars all up on the covery part.

Is his family being in grave peril not enough of a reason to die trying though?
Does he need yet another reason to rush home?
Do we really need to risk his super best bud who’s just gonna eat it in a few years?

@Fitzman73: No we don’t need it.
But it did make it cool.

And also all this Biggs talk just made me realize something that I never really considered.
As if their relationship isn’t crazy enough, Luke’s FATHER killed his best friend.
Let that sink in for a second.
That’s a fact that gets totally lost in the “Oh my god he kissed his sister” conversation.

ThatScoobyDoom: Ya know, until I started talking with you for these Typecasts a year ago I never really paid much attention to Biggs.
To me, he was just a dude that Luke used to know years back on the dust bowl planet.
But talking to you, he’s kinda become a more important character, even though he gets dead in the trench run saving Luke’s bacon.
It’s pretty clear you always dug him though and it kinda rubs off.

But yeah, that is pretty fucked up that dear daddy Vader basically kills almost every one of the folks what Luke cares about from the old country, if ya will.
Mentor Old Ben, best friend Biggs, depending on what theory you want to believe he also killed or ordered the hit on Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen.
This Vader dude is kinda a dick.

I don’t think we said it, but Luke does the impossible and makes it through Begger’s Canyon only to come upon some of those attacking Tuskeimage

ns.
H

ow did th

at tickle

your fan

cy?

@Fitzman73: I’m not sure that I “dig him” so much as I obsess over the tiniest details of these movies, to an unhealthy degree.

Plus there was always kind of a mystique about him because almost all of scenes were cut and decades went by spent wondering what he was like on Tatooine, what was thier friendship like, etc.
That lack of information feeds the imagination.
Even now with the inclusion of some of that cut footage, you still don’t get much information.
So things like this comic are cool because it adds to the non-canon stuff that I’ve built up in my head about him over the years.

I thought the way Luke came up through Devil’s Ass Crack or whatever they called that exit from the canyon and shot passed a bunch of Tuskens was cool.
I liked how they used the surprised Tuskens to illustrate how incredible this was.
The way they point out that the Tuskens in all their history have never seen anyone come through that cut in the canyon wall was a nice touch.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’m not saying you wanna get your hair and nails did and take Biggs out for dinner and see where the evening takes you, but you seem to have a particular interest in him because of the total blackout in detail for him.

I mean, I was trying to find details on him being in some old novels and I don’t really see much, so of course it would cause your imagination to build a history based on their short interaction.

Aye, me too.
If you look close they seem to being just blind firing cause they’re so surprised.

It sells the whole thing and brings it home as Luke streaks through the sky with them firing u’p his afterburner causing a fiery crash image

landing at t

he Lars homestead

.

@Fitzman73: And then, just like we kinda talked about earlier, Luke even says to himself this felt like some kind of test.

Which then leads into a flash forward to the trench run before Han snaps him back to reality aboard the Falcon in the present.

ThatScoobyDoom: And that page that shows the stuff what happened in IV is just a stunner.
Better than image

the art in those issues.

Okay, I gotta ask, and you did sorta touch on this earlier when talking about Luke’s trench run bravado, but does this in anyway cheapen Episode IV for you?
Does it make Luke’s journey in that movie seem less impressive to you at all?
Cause I’m of 2 minds on it.

@Fitzman73: Not really.
It makes it more believable to me.
Especially when you add in the information you get from Episode I.
To me it connects him more to Anakin, which is something you don’t get much of just from the movies.
It shows he’s more than just a good pilot, there’s something special there.

When he says hey this Death Star trench is no big deal, this issue makes that seem more believable that he would actually feel that way.
But when the shit hits the fan you still get to see him realize that oh this is NOT just like Beggars Canyon, at all.
He almost immediately finds out that yeah maybe the trench run itself is the same, and hitting a 2 meter target, but doing it while trying to evade trained killers all around you is something else entirely.

ThatScoobyDoom: That is my dominating thought.

It actually makes alot of shit in A New Hope make way more sense.
As I said at the start, somebody, probably Claremont, paid attention to the movie and just figured “fuck it, lets make these references mean something” and it totally works.

This isn’t me just looking for a flaw so we don’t sound like Marvel/Star Wars zombies, I feel this is a legit point.
What makes Luke’s story in ANH so interesting is that he’s a good mechanic & he’s a good speeder pilot, but once you insert all of these impressive feats into his background it almost feels like “what’s the big deal? He’s basically done this before, this time he’s just getting shot at the whole time and not just at the last moment”.

Again, I agree that it doesn’t, but I think that’s something to consider for a moment.

@Fitzman73: I could see where someone might take it that way.

ThatScoobyDoom: Our last scene is, as you touched on before, Han coming into the cockpit of the Falcon to take over for Luke in a scene that is actually kinda sweet.

Han tells Luke that he knows Luke must want to get out of the pilot seat because hours at the controls can be pretty boring.
And Luke tells him maybe some day he’ll get tired, but that day’s not today.
How did that hit you?

Also, there’s one thing on this last page that we’ve both bitched about in the past, can you spot it?

@Fitzman73: I thought it was a cool little scene. It reminded me of something out of Firefly.

The boredom of piloting in deep space all alone.
I thought the “Don’t get space happy” line by Han was dismal.
I had my own flashback to the Roy Thomas arc we read before.
Ugh.

Not sure what the gripe was on the last page except the design of the Falcon looked a bit off.

image

ThatScoobyDoom: I didn’t make the Firefly connection, but that’s a very apt way to describe it.

You just hit the nail on the head.
I read “Space Happy” and it made me cringe SSOOOOOO hard!
It definetly didn’t ruin the issue, but I had hoped we’d moved past that shit.

Yeah, the Falcon has alot less detail than we’d expect.
I’ve flipped ahead quite a few times and we’ll see that again…alot.

@Fitzman73: Yeah that line was fucking awful.

It almost ruins the rest of the issue.
It’s like getting to the bottom of a delicious ice cream sunday and finding a dog turd.

The Falcon looks really flat and smooth like it has the same skin as an old WWII bomber.
At least that’s what these comics make me think of.
Carmine Infantino who takes over from Howard Chaykin after the series of issues we covered previously was really bad (good?) about that.
The Star Destroyers are the same.
They look perfectly trialngular and their surfaces are very smooth almost like glass.

It’s weird because I think the Infantino art is some of my favorite.
But his spaceships are never quite right.

ThatScoobyDoom: Lol, I didn’t think it was that damaging.

But at least you gave us all a…good…visual…image…

I wonder if that was him or his co-artists, because I looked and it’s pretty rare that he did the issues alone.
Bob Wiacek seems to be the most frequent co-artist, I can see somebody of Infantino’s stature wanting to do the character stuff and leaving the rest to somebody else.

I do dig what I’ve seen of Carmine’s art though.
It’s great shit.

@Fitzman73: It’s weird, Wiacek was usually an inker so I thought maybe that was the co-artist part, but looking him up at comicbookdb.com, it doesn’t look like they have him credited on this issue at all.

So then it makes me wonder if he did the layouts or something, or like you said maybe the ships and non character stuff.

Carmine Infantino just died recently, couple years ago, it was a bummer because I would’ve like to meet him.

ThatScoobyDoom: Keep in mind that this issue is Herb Trimpe and Allen Milgrom.

Next issue is where Infantino came back, with Gene Day for that issue, and the detail on that opening page is pretty good.
But lets save that for another day.

Yeah, even at 24, I’ve reached the age where alot of the folks I’d like to meet are starting to go.

Well, my good sir, we’ve reached the end of this story.
Is there anything else you’d like to say about this issue for the good folks reading/listening?

@Fitzman73: No, I’m spent.

This was a fun read with some interesting concepts and nice art.
I give it 7 out of 10 womp rats.

ThatScoobyDoom: I hate giving scores, but I might go even higher. This is without a doubt the best issue of the old run that I’ve read.

As we close, I want to say something really quick. By the time this goes up it will have been 1 year since I launched my site and this whole Typecast concept and you’ve been extremely instrumental in that. Counting this one, you’ve done 9 of these now covering a wide range of topics, 90% of which within the broad theme of Star Wars. I’ve had great guests, @SpiderScooby@TESDGroupie, @ScoobyAddict@JoinedToFollow, @ScoobySnaxCom, and @MemeEmSteveDave, but none more than you.
Not to mention the help you’ve given me on videos and shit in that time, and much more

So thanks for all of that.
I know for a fact my site wouldn’t have nearly as many visitors without you, my good sir.

@Fitzman73: Are the mics off?

Should I zip up my pants now?

ThatScoobyDoom: *garbled*
Die fink show!
*spits*<
pimage

Remember, you can listen to this as a podcast with this link here:

http://justjumptotheend.libsyn.com/bonus-episode-2-oops-we-did-it-again

Again, a huge thank you to Fitz for all he has done.
The dude has been a huge help.
Follow both of his twitter accounts.
His personal: http://twitter.com/Fitzman73
And his podcast: http://twitter.com/JJ2End
Also, be sure to go and listen to every single episode of the podcast he does with his sister at http://JJ2End.com

Share this post on twitter with the hashtag #Typecast.

And finally, and most importantly in light of recent world events, this world is full of truly EVIL people.
Do everything in your power to combat that evil, even if it’s something as simple as giving a stranger a smile.
Do it!
The world needs good now more than ever.

Thank you for reading, hope to see you back here soon.

Typecast #15: Do You Really Meme It?

Hey gang, welcome back!
Yesterday (October 5th) was the 1 year anniversary of @SpiderScooby helping me launch this site (read the first official post here).
And man, what a year it has been!

I’ve gotten over 3,000 total views & over 1,600 total visitors from 25+ countries.
15 Typecasts, about half of my videos broken down, and a lot of stories shared.
A big thank you to everybody who has been a part of making the 1st year of this site as big as it’s been.
Now onto the future…or today at the very least.

Today’s Typecast has more variety than even Typecast #2 did.
And who is my guest for this momentous occasion?
Well, he IS the master of the Meme, the Helper of Hollywood, one half of @IrvingsBasement and probably half of my Twitter followers!
You all know him, you all love him, he is @MemeEmSteveDave!

As always, his name (@MemeEmSteveDave) will appear in red and link to his podcast, The LP Lexicon Podcast, which you can find at http://lexiconpod.blogspot.com.

All spelling and grammatical errors appear just as they were made simply to maintain honesty.

Take it away me!

ThatScoobyDoom: I think you’ve made it pretty clear that you dig the Tolkien stuff, how did you come by all of that?

@MemeEmSteveDave: I forgotten about this for the longest time, but I was working with a guy in Manchester, England, England … and he used to talk about Fellowship all of the time (I think The Two Towers movie was just about to be released), so he piqued my interest, and I simply went out and bought Fellowship.
I loved it right away.
Beautifully shot, awesome actors, and the film score … Holy crap, How man hours has that score kept me entertained.
From thereon in, I had to buy anything Tolkien-esque, which I did.
When I love something, I have to buy everything that I can which I find, so for the next few years, I bought whatever I could, and it still holds dear to me, even after all these years.

As a side note, the Harry Potter movies were being released at the same time, and I felt that, as it was so big over here in the UK, it was misguided and upon seeing elements which obviously had roots in Tolkiens mythology, I detested it from the get-go.
One day, I had a rare day off from work and was ill on the sofa.
I had just cancelled my satellite TV subscription and had 28 days viewing left (It was cancelled because I never used it), and the first Potter movie was beginning, so I thought “I’ve blasted this franchise with my friend all of this time, so I’ll watch one to see how accurate my judgement was.
Well, same again.
Watched it.
Loved it.
Bought everything that I could.
If it has roots in Tolkien’s mythology, it’s not theft, as I originally thought.
We call it ‘homage.’

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ThatScoobyDoom: So let me get this straight, you’ve only been into it for like 13 years? That’s interesting, because the way it’s talked about here in the states, at least in my experience, is that that shit is drilled into you guys from an early age.
They act like that shit is your version of Batman/Superman/Spider-Man etc, your modern myths.

I’m the same way, if I get into a show, movie, franchise, I go looking for all the tie-in shit immediately.
Books, games, comics, magazines, whatever I can find to feed the beast.

So did you get all of the books right away and compare to the movies?

Don’t get me started on Potter, we’ll be here for a good long while!
I dig LotR, but I fuckin’ DEVOUR Potter!

@MemeEmSteveDave: Yeah, man!
The movies did it for me, but in school, we were never really introduced to Tolkien.
What I did learn later on, is that many people in prison like it, due to its escapist properties, and I think Potter is the same time way.
You get taken away from the woes and drudgery of real life, and can focus your mind on something else for a spell (pun intended).

Tolkien was an Inkling, along with CS Lewis, and the way they created was very interesting inasmuch as that they wanted to read these folk stories that never existed so they had to write them.
Personally, I feel that it’s a great way to create.

I bought the books right away, and was happy with how the movies were produced, in comparison for Rings.
Potter, on the other hand, always felt like a slight disappointment when I was leaving the theater because they cut so much out, to keep the run time decent.
For me, Goblet, Phoenix, Half-Blood Prince and Hallows should all have been split into two movies, like Hallows was.
Hallows was such an enjoyable cinema experience (incidentally, I am taking my two sons to The Magical World of Harry Potter in 10 days).

I just got the Kingsman trade paperback, because I have absolutely fuckin’ devoured that movie.
Have you seen it, yet?
I think it’s probably the best movie I have seen in a long while.

ThatScoobyDoom: That is so counter to what they make it seem like in the media.
I’m honestly surprised by that, never would’ve guessed it.
I can totally see inmates loving both, and if you include the in universe books from Potter that J.K. has done for charity it kinda adds a depth to that story that not many franchises get.
Harry and Ron talk about Quidditch Through The Ages and you can pull that off a shelf and read it yourself, with hand scrawled note from Harry and Ron…it’s nuts!
I’m not much into the other books of Tolkien (I’ve read The Hobbit & half of Fellowship), did he do in universe texts or was the rest of his work adding history to Middle Earthimage

?

Yeah, I remember hearing a quote from Tolkien where he said that England has a rich history that goes back many centuries, but when it comes to folklore, mythology, and tales of fiction they have King Arthur…and well, that’s pretty much it.
So he set out to change that.
Some would call that arrogance, I call it smart.
George Lucas did the same thing with Star Wars, and even American Graffiti, he saw a gap and felt he could fill it.
Shit, to invoke yet another passion we share, Kev Smith did the same fuckin’ thing with Clerks and the View Askewniverse.

With Rings they did it right, the did 2 hour cuts for theatrical, but the did extended cuts for home video.
Even if Potter hadn’t been split from Goblet on (which I totally agree they should have) they should have at least done extended cuts, and I don’t mean extended cuts like Stone and Chamber got where they had 12 minutes of extra footage, I mean 30+ minutes of extra shit to tell the whole bloody story the way it damn well needs to be told.
Hallows is the single greatest film of the Potter film franchise because they had the balls to let it breath.
It needed to be 4 and a half hours.

I haven’t seen it, but everybody keeps polishing it’s balls.
I have heard it has a stellar cameo from Mark Hamill, which I’m sure everybody reading this knows how I feel about Mark, so I definetly want to see it.
I’ve not been able to see many new movies the last few years though.

@MemeEmSteveDave: Tolkien had tonnes and tonnes of notes, backstory, etc. which formed the Histroy of Middle Earth from it’s inception right through to the Fourth Age (When the Ring was destroyed).
Of course, The Hobbit is where people begin, and a surprising amount of people can’t finish Fellowship, so don’t feel bad.
Once you get onto the journey, you’re away until the End, it’s awesome.
I love the Appendices of LotR, which tells of what happened to everyone in the Fourth Age.

But behind all of that was Tolkien’s notes which were released some years later in a book called The Silmarillion.
What happened with you with Fellowship, happened to me with The Silmarillion.
I got halfway and about gave up.
I forced myself to go back and I finished it, and it’ll be the greatest Tolkien movie never made.
I would absolutely love to see that in movie form, but it seems that it will never happen; the Tolkien family don’t appreciate the movies, it seems.

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Here in England, we don’t have a great deal of folk-lore.
Our folklore is now LotR, which could be anyone’s folklore, it’s justhat the writer was British.
J.K. Rowling created an incredible universe, and a wonderfully told story which will be loved for years to come, too, and I often wondered what she would do after Potter.
The series that she is working on now is as good, and equally enjoyable, and it’s a great feeling heading out once a year to buy a new Rowling book (Even though it doesn’t have her name on the front cover).
I am, of course, referring to the Cormoran Strike novels. J.K. Rowling was always a detective writer at heart, only now she doesn’t mask it.
As of now, there is two books, with a third being released in October.
I hope there is an underlying arch-enemy.
Nothing has been mentioned at this point.
For every Potter, Baggins, Skywalker and Eggsy Unwin (just to whet you’re appetite), a Lord Voldemort, Sauron, Darth Vader and Richmond Valentine (Yeth, motherfucker!) is necessary.

I’m going to link you to a 3 minute video of Kingsman.
Watch it, and let me know exactly what you think. https://vimeo.com/126552945

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, the thought, effort, time, energy, and shear amount of work that he put in to it all is astounding.
He’s got a richly detailed way about his prose, The Hobbit itself is just so much fun and enveloping with amazing depth, but I’ll tell you why I didn’t finish Fellowship, and it’s sad really.
I have a 4 book box-set that starts with The Hobbit so, naturally, given the obvious fact that it’s set before LotR, I read it first and it has a wonderful pace.
Then I started Fellowship, and it felt like it was written by a completely different author.
Suddenly, the read gets frustrating because he goes into far too much detail for his own good.
It feels like he takes a page and a half to describe a blanket draped over a chair in the corner…that has no impact on the story what so ever.
It’s written beautifully but I was like “who gives a flying fuck? ‘There’s a blanket over a chair in the corner’ is all we need, move the fuck on!”.
He got far too detailed to the point that it became detrimental and distracting, I had to put it down.

The Silmarillion has always been confusing to me, some say it is and in universe text that the characters have access to, but others make it seem like a prose effort breaking down the stories of the verse beyond just Middle Earth, which appears to my understanding to be just a state or country in the world.

Sadly, I’ve not been able to read any of her post Potter product.
I know The Casual Vacancy was well received and I believe it is being made into an HBO (not that one!) mini-series.
I didn’t know that her book under her pen name was part of a series or that she’s even released a follow up to it.
But I do remember the veil being pulled back on her on that one though, it was pretty funny.
The reviews were astonished by this new upstart writer that had such skill, breadth, and ability.
I believe one review said his way with words was the best the world had seen since Rowling, and somebody took that comparison seriously and connected the dots, right?
She said she wanted to see if she could write something without hype or attention and make any wave and got busted because she’s too good.
I’d love to burn through that shit.

That was fucking brutal!
Holy shit on a stick, choreographed to perfection.
I imagine that that scene from the second webisode of Daredevil is something similar based on the praise I’ve read.
Seriously though, that is fuckin’ poetry in motion!
I wanted to see it before but shit!

@MemeEmSteveDave: A couple of years ago, I started to get into audiobooks, and I mentioned this on either one or both of the ThatMan on FatMan episodes that I was on; audiobooks make a good book great, and a great book awesome.
That level of detail is unnoticed when being read by someone.
I did pick up on that, first time I read Return of the King in regard to locations et al.
Jim Dale reading Harry Potter is astounding.

The Casual Vacancy has already been released on DVD.
I do love the book, and it’s great to see Rowling writing for an adult audience but some of the themes mentioned … Holy crap, dude.
Talk about traumatic.
I can’t stomach child death, and when that was flung in there … It’s kind of a downer.

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Two Cormoran Strike novels have been released; The Cuckoo’s Calling and The Silkworm.
A third book, Career of Evil is coming out in October.
She has hinted that there could be eight or more books.
Talk about engaging characters … It’s excitement that I haven’t felt in books since Hallows.

I’m looking forward to Spectre this year, did you see the trailer, yet?
I love the new Bond movies.
Quantum was filmed where I got married in Chile, where my wife and my eldest son were born.

ThatScoobyDoom: I have a few audiobooks, 100% agree.
I have a Star Wars novel and the 1st Potter, the SW novel is interesting because it has music and sound effects, really takes advantage of the LucasFilm library of sounds in a great enriching way.
Potter is great too because Dale is somehow able to make all of those voices distinct enough that it’s not anywhere near confusing.
A masterstroke!

Shit, it’s out already?
I’m so out of touch it ain’t even funny.
Oh, so she gets that dark?
I can’t say I’m surprised by that, honestly.
After she had the fetus Voldemort in Deathly Hallows – which, lets be real, the movie made that more horrific than I ever imagined it.
Covered in blood and what not, holy shit – all bets were off, she made it clear she wasn’t writing just for kids with that one.
She’s always said she wasn’t writing for kids.

8 books, shit!
If anybody can do it it’s her.
Speaking of 8 books, Chris Columbus recently said he’d love to do a movie about the Potter trio as adults.
1. Would you like to see that?
2. Would you like to see her write another Potter book?

I did not, nets throttled.
I’ve only seen Casino Royale, but it was fuckin’ awesome!
I really wanna see the other 2.

@MemeEmSteveDave: Yes, sir.
It passed me by, too, to be honest.
Here at Lexicon Towers, we hardly watch any TV, but we do love film.
I was out shopping one day and stumbled across it.
It’s nicely filmed though, I just dread reaching the end.

1&2.
Yeah, I’d love to see that.
JK Rowling has touched upon what the trio would be doing in this day and age, sporadically, though Pottermore.
There is also the play (Which isn’t a prequel} Harry Potter and the Cursed Child which is being released in London next year.
I’d be down with seeing that.

Casino Royale was awesome.
I was unsure what to expect because I hadn’t paid much attention to the recent Bond movies, and I was suitably impressed.
Same with Quantum of Solace, and Skyfall.
Incidently, I work in the motor industry, so it’s great to see our cars make their way onto film, especially when the movie is so good.
Skyfall surpassed mere Bond, in my opinion.
Such a great, well-filmed, terrific movie.
It shows a part of London which I know, too.
I only ever see it as a tourist, so it’s great to see that aspect of London shown in such circumstances.

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So tell me, Scoobs .. what is the film history from where you live.
Any filming locations near, or movie ties?
I’m interested.

ThatScoobyDoom: I like all forms of filmed entertainment, I’ve always looked at TV as a film franchise anyway.
The pilot is is the first movie and every episode after is just a sequel.
Some good sequels, some back.
But to me it’s all the same.

I’d only want it if she released a wealth of material on it.
Which, knowing how she is, she has it but just hasn’t organized it in any great way.
That play sounds very interesting, I don’t buy that it can’t be turned into a book though.
Books are far easier to present stories than any other medium.
I think that a comic book would probably be the best way for her to present stories, and can you imagine the attention it would bring to have a true literary icon like her do a comic?

Solace picks up moments after Casino, right?
I think I’ll be disappointed in Skyfall if only for the fact that the kill off Dame Judi, I’ve thought she was insanely awesome since As Time Goes By.
I kept hoping they’d get her into Potter, but alas they missed their chance.

Do you remember that James Spader movie White Palace from 1990?
It was filmed just a few blocks from the hospital I was born at.
That George Clooney movie from a few years back Up In The Air was filmed in part around here, maybe just at the airport.
But nothing huge that I can think of.
Our local government isn’t very supportive of Film and TV, they don’t want to give the tax breaks so productions go elsewhere.
It’s insanity to me, because it they would allow them to show off some of the shit it would bring in tourism, but you know politicians.
Not too fuckin’ swift.

@MemeEmSteveDave: As a teenager I wasted my life in font of the TV, it wasn’t until I bought my own place when I was 20 that I realized, a) this place is expensive and b) I’m spending all of my time at work, so I decided to cut TV and do something productive with my time .. it was making music back then, something I still do albeit sporadically.
Job, wife, kids, etc. make recording hard, but I still have the Lexicon Pod which goes up every Sunday evening, so I still feel I’m putting something out there.
We are coming up to our one year episode in a month or so, and I’m looking forward to that.
Why have you not podded yet, sir?

The reason I asked about nearby filming locations is because here in Liverpool, various TV and movie productions pass through filming parts of the city.
Captain America, Guy Ritchie’s Sherlock Holmes, Peaky Blinders, even Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows had parts filmed here (Harry and Hagrid on Sirius’ old bike in the tunnel, FYI).
Years ago, there was a cult TV Series filmed right at the bottom of the street where I used to live, called Boys From The Blackstuff, which had a young Bernard Hill.
Peter Jackson saw that and cast Bernard Hill as Theoden in Lord of the RIngs, to bring it back to Ring-speak.

I think if JK Rowling did a comic, that would be cool.
Would she do it?
I don’t know, but once every so often she’ll throw out a pop-culture reference which will knock me on my arse, so she can always surprise.

Solace picks up mere moments after Casino Royale ends.
And how great it is, too.
I was lucky enough to see it in the cinema, and those experiences I always keep with me.
This is why I am so looking forward to Spectre.
As our mature British actors arc gracefully into their latter years, it’s always interesting to see what roles are offered them, and how they perform.
Look at Ian McKellen, John Hurt, and yes, Dame Judi and Helen Mirren.
Once it’s committed to magnetic tape, it’ll be around forever.

Governments can be awesome or stupid when it comes to culture.
Luckily, the UK Government has realized that our best export of the past 50 years has been culture, so it’s readily available and well-promoted.
For example, when lived abroad, the Government wasn’t too bothered by culture and taxed the Hell out of everything cultural.
But hey, cigarettes were cheap.

I just watched Big Hero 6 this week.
My eldest son is huuuge into Disney at the moment, and I bought both my boys a Baymax each.
Sure, the films are created to shift merch, but I don’t care.
I like merch.

ThatScoobyDoom: I wanna ask you about your pod in just a bit, but first why I ain’t got one.
There are a few reason why, but most importantly would be that I don’t have reliable Internet.
I know if I had reliable internet I could do a pod with fuckin’ anybody who wanted to talk over Skype.
I’ve had 3 folks ask me to be on their pods but I don’t have room on my phone for Skype so I’ve had to turn them down.
And trust me, it pisses me off that I can’t because I realize that if I could, if nothing else, it would be great promotion for this site and my videos.
Then there’s the equipment I don’t have, I record my videos on a mic that I got with Rock Band for PS3.
It’s decent, but it has a buzz that gets really annoying really fast.
Then there would be my lack of knowledge, I’m not the most technologically savvy dude in the world.
I’ve been told it’s simple to upload them and shit, but I do all my shit through apps on my phone now and that’s simple.
I tried uploading the first Dumbass Poets Society (featuring your Irvings Basement partner J Sarge) from my laptop like 4 or 5 times and I couldn’t get it to work.
I said here on the site in my 2nd anniversary that my plan was to have a pod up and running by the time my 3rd anniversary of doing all this shit comes around on May 27th 2016, but the way it’s looking that’s not gonna happen.
I need somebody local as a pod partner.
At this point, I can really only do a Franken pod like the one Fitzman and I did for Typecast 9.

Even if you take Film & Television out of the equation, you Liverpudlians have a lot of cultural heritage in music.
Most famously, and I’m sure you guys get tired of hearing it, with the Beatles.
Really?
That dude what played Theoden King was fuckin’ bad ass.

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It makes sense for her to do one too.
It’d be a new medium for her, it’d last for many years which would make sure Potter stayed in the public consciousness, not to mention the benefits for the comic industry.
Which ever company (probably DC given the pre-existing Warner ties) got that book would get Oprah rich!

I wanna see that bastard (Solace)!
Ya’ll have some fuckin’ brilliant actors over there too!
Cleese (Bond vet I believe) & Idle are known for comedy but are both just great, well rounded, super talented actors, it was awesome seeing Cleese in Potter and I always hoped they’d get Idle but…
As for McKellen, he’s gotten more high profile work since he went gray than ever before, so there’s that.

Well, the same can be said for us here in the States, our greatest export is entertainment.
Why every State isn’t supportive of it is the reason why a lot of American productions, especially TV, are shot in fuckin’ Vancouver.

Awww, I wanna see dat too!

@MemeEmSteveDave: You gotta pod, man, it’s the easiest and most rewarding thing I the world.
My friends at The Attack of the 50 Foot Nerds podcast record everything via Skype.
If it drops out, it drops out and you edit it out afterwards.
The first Impractical Jokers pods were recorded on a rock band mic, and they all shared the same mic, and I myself have used one to record music.
It’s all part of the journey, the learning curve and building an audience.
I think that’s the best advice I can give to you.
If you don’t do it today, you’ll never do it.

You are a creative person anyway, so once you start, you’ll be amazed at how you didn’t begin before.
I’ve appeared on a few pods now, and it’s always humbling to be asked.

I love The Beatles, man.
That was the group which started me on my musical journey all those years ago.
You dig ’em?
What music are you into, sir?

ThatScoobyDoom: Well, like I said, I dipped my toes into the podding waters with Fitzman.
We had a conversation just like this then recorded our parts and he edited it together and released it on the JJ2End feed.
Folks seemed to have liked it, I hope to do that again soon.
He and I have kicked around trying to get together and do one, but as of now nothing has materialized.
I hope we can change that soon though.

I know, man.
It’s something I desperately wanna get into.
It was shocking the first time I was asked.
I’d only don like 12-15 of my vids and I got an offer and at first I was fuckin’ gob smacked.
It’s beyond humbling.
I was just out of my mind thinking “why the fuck would they want me?” because I just have a respect for the medium as a whole, probably because being a Talk Radio host seems like the most primo job on this ruddy rock.
Especially if you just talk easy shit like entertainment and pop culture.

I was never a huge Beatles fan, not saying I was ever like “fuck duh Beedles, fuck um up duh ash” either.
I respect them and their contributions to music, but I just tend to lean towards the harder shit.
My musical tastes are sorta eclectic at times, but for the most part, especially recently, I just stick to listening to AC/DC.
Fuck, as I type this I’m half watching the Let There Be Rock concert movie.
I listen to alot of 70’s & 80’s rock bands though.
KISS, Aerosmith, Ozzy, Motley Crue, Queen, Journey, Foreigner, Lynyrd Skynyrd, this is the shit I grew up listening to on the radio (94.7, KSHE 95) and it stuck with me.
I’m also a huge Weird Al fan, I love the sound of a bagpipe, & I like some classical type shit.
I’m all over the map really, but at the top of the heap always is AC/DC.
Folks get tired of my talkin’ AC/DC on twitter, but I mean the line Mal had years ago about them doing just street level workin’ man type of shit appeals to me.

What’s the type of shit you like to just kick back and spin?

@MemeEmSteveDave: Well, a quick look through the Lexicon episodes is enough to show exactly what we listen to … alt.rock, indie, singer-songwriters, psych, 60’s, 70’s, 90’s, punk … it’s a broad range. I think the point of the podcast is that you should try different types of music, because there is always something you can relate to, or something you might like which you never realised before. o be honest, it’s my take on the state of the music industry today, music theory, and trying to introduce our audience to something awesome. 

We play the album on my iPod, and listen to it, and have a discussion as it plays. It’s coming up to a year in September. (If you promise to keep it quiet, I’ll show you something … I’ve took the cover of each album we have done and put it in a file. When it’s complete, in time for our 1 year episode, I’m going to have it printed off and I’ll give it to my wife as a reminder of the great time we have spent together. I’ve attached what I have up to now FOR YOUR EYES ONLY! Hahaha).
Also see attached to see how much we have left to cover in the Lexicon.

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Yeah, it’s been great fun.
I started a new job just before Christmas, and I like that we can record constantly on Sunday evening. I’ve fell behind on absolutely everything else, mind … Irving’s Basement .. there’s stuff in the can and to be done, but it’s finding the time .. HBOHelper blog is weeks behind. I’m just busy. LP Lexicon is my only vice at the moment.

ThatScoobyDoom: How did it come about?
Have you tried podcasting before?
Because I honestly think your pod has one of the most interesting concepts I’ve ever heard, basically a music commentary pod.
So fuckin’ cool.

This won’t go up until probably early September or early October, so you’re safe.
Holy shit on a shingle!
That’s alot of fuckin’ CD’s and shit, dude!!!

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Have you guys not skipped a week?
That’s quite a feat, congrats.

I wanna ask you about that too, how did the whole HBO Helper thing come about?

@MemeEmSteveDave: I’d podded on the Attack of the 50ft Nerds pod a few times, and I’d been on ThatMan on FatMan, too.
I’d always enjoyed it and I had edited best of episodes of TESD and HBO (I have a cameo on HBO Secret Origins 3), so editing was never really a problem.
I’d been doing it for years with music. 

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One day, I was thinking about a music commentary pod, and my wife asked if she could do it with me.
She got the ol’ “If we do this, you need to be commited,” speech, and from then, we was.
We haven’t skipped a week, per se, we had a week off one week, but had multiple episodes previously, so it’s about right.

I knew I had a good idea when I thought of it, the night we recorded out debut episode, I went on Attack of the 50ft Nerds, too, and when I explained the concept of the podcast, their reaction was inspiring.

HBOhelper came around in Sept. 2011.
I was relistening to the episodes from the beginning, and I figured that some of the old news stories which Ralph and Kevin talked about were lost in the internet now, so I set about recording them on a blog, very similar to FindEmSteveDave (Which I also helped out with, later on).
After I did the first episode, Ralph started to follow me, and plug the blog on HBO.
It was a great time.
As mentioned, I used the notes I took to create the Secret Origins episodes, and when I met Kev last July, I told him I was the HBOhelper and he was like “Shit, you’re famous, dude!” which made me laugh.
I’ve fell behind on my blog for the last few weeks, which I hate to do.
I’ll catch up eventually, but I’m struggling for time at the moment.

ThatScoobyDoom: How did you get hooked up with 50ft Nerds and ThatMan?
Was it just common fandoms?

BTW, those Secret Origins eps are perfect ways to intro folks to HBO.
As you well know, I’ve asked you a few times to send me the links on twitter so I could forward them to somebody who wanted to listen but felt like the missed the boat because of all the references and shit.
You did primo work with those, man.

I’m telling you dude, I think it’s fuckin’ genius!
I’d kill to do something similar for movies and TV, just a pod of commentaries for shit I like.
You inspired that idea because yours is just so fuckin’ pimp.

Oh, I remember hearing them talk about it.
Once again, I had a moment where I just stopped and thought “fuck! This is a brilliant goddamn idea that I wish I’d thought of!” because it’s just so fuckin’ cool, man.
To catalog the news, bits, and assorted goofiness.

Which is why I appreciate all the more you takin’ the time to do this!

@MemeEmSteveDave: 50ft Nerds followed my Meme ’em account on twitter and I live about 15 minutes away from one of the hosts.
Scott asked me to go on FatMan one day, really early on, but I think I wasn’t able to make it on until Episode 14.
But yeah, common fandoms in TESD and Kev.

I loved putting the Secret Origins episodes together.
It takes a VERY LOOONG time, but I was please with how it turned out. 

Sometimes an idea hits you and you just have to run with it.
If you don’t you will forget it.
That’s what happened with HBOHelper and the LP Lexicon.
You understand that anyway, because you have your videos and your TypeCast, which is awesome.

What have you got planned for the future?
Anything you can divulge?

ThatScoobyDoom: I hadn’t planned to ask you this, but since your the only person I’ve talked to in this medium that’s met him, what was it like meeting Kev?
I know that he’s a huge hero for you the same way he is for me.

They were awesome, man.
Do you have a favorite HBO moment or bit?

Yes, I totally get it.
It’s happened many times to me.
And if you don’t forget, it, what ever IT may be, tends to haunt you until you do something about it.
I have a few of those haunting things now.

Hmm, that’s a good question…I plan to stretch and try new shit.
I have a few more Bat videos coming that I plan to tie together into 1 big multi-part, multi-perspective, multi-layered story.
I even have a love story (stop giggling!) planned.
I’ve got even more sequels coming, and I plan to finish off my Star Wars story in spectacular fashion.
I said in my 2 year post that I wanted to have a pod up and running by my 3 year anniversary, but I’m not quite sure that’ll happen.
I have a few other things I want to get done with a few other folks, but I don’t really wanna say just incase they fall through.
I don’t want a painful reminder.

How about yourself?
What does the future hold for the Lord of the Memes?

@MemeEmSteveDave: Oh, he was so cool, man.
I’ll tell you about it.
Saw HBO in London last year, with a couple of guys of the Attack of the 50ft Nerds.
Show was fun, and afterwards I went for a pint with ol; Declan ‘Creaky Knees’ Quinn.
When I came back Super Groovy Cartoon Movie was on, and then a short Q&A.
We had to clear out pretty quickly and there was a short queue outside to try to catch Kev outside.
I was talking to Declan all the while, who was inside, and we waited for aaaages, and eventually Declan came out.
We went to try to get another drink but by this time, everything was closed, but as we walked past the queue again, Kev was clearly visible outside so we headed over.
He was there, with Jay, and Jen was in the vehicle, I believe.
I waited a little and asked Jay if we could take a photo.
He was very friendly, and posed for photos with myself and my friends.
Very sweet guy.
Then I saw Kev was free, so I went over and asked if I could have a photo.
I told him about HBOhelper, as per above, and he was very friendly.
He took a couple of photos, to get the best light and complimented me on my TESD shirt.
He makes you feel at ease and talks to you, and leaves you feeling very positive afterwards. 

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When I had met people whose stuff I dug before, there was always a kind of comedown afterwards, as it sunk in that you’d probbably never see them again.
Not the case with Kev.
I felt great afterwards, and i think it was the best meeting I ever had (and this comes from someone who met Quentin Tarantino).

Favourite HBO bit … Mmmm, if it made it into the Secret Origins, it was because I loved it, but I’ll say when Ralph did Christoher Walken discussing Natalie Wood.
That shit was gold. 

‘Love story.’ {giggle}.

Mmm … for me, I think the future is going to be as busy as my job lets me be.
I had a quick word with JSarge regarding some Irvings Basement stuff we’ve recorded this morning, and I’m planning to bring HBOhelper back up to date.
I’ll get there!
But my true vice is buying music, so I’m always looking for new material for the Lexicon.
I bought some stuff today (Deftones, Nine Inche Nails, Eagles of Death Metal), and I’ll get some in London, too, I’m sure.  

ThatScoobyDoom: It’s good to hear that.
I talked with JTF (the worthless shithead) and he told me about seeing Red State with the Q&A after, and while he never met the dude, he had good a good experience…despite having poo in his eye.
Kev is one of the few celebrities I’d actually like to meet and you never hear of folks meeting him and coming out the other end going “you know who’s a real piece of shit? Kevin Smith. He laughed at my limp, pushed me down to the ground, and carved out my spleen.” he really seems like a genuinely nice dude…unlike JTF who is a douche.
Yes, twice I smacked JTF.

I’m trying to think about a favorite Babble Bit myself, I may hafta go with Creepy Clown Time and it’s various incarnations.
That really shows off Ralph’s talent and skill as a voice actor, something I deeply admire.

Lets talk a bit about Irving’s Basement.
First and foremost, where did the name come from?

@MemeEmSteveDave: Ah, @JoinedToFollow … What an absolute twat.

All those Babble bits which went on to have their own segments were awesome … Creepy clown.
Babble story time. Inappropriate Toys.
The origins where the greatest.
Remember hearing the Fries Girl for the first time.
I damn near pissed myself laughing.

Irving’s Basement … I don’t know if we ever mentioned where the name came from, but it’s a Fight Club reference.
When Fight Club moves from the car park and into the basement of the bar, the guy who runs the bar was called Irving, and basically, Irving’s Basement was where Fight Club was held until it moved to Paper Street.

So there you have it!
An exclusive.
Pop yer monocle back in.

ThatScoobyDoom: He is…he really is…not a snappy dresser either…not a snappy dresser…

Yes, and Kev’s crys of “you’re goin’ ta hell, dude!” made it even funnier.
Remember the special ed teacher who said she loved the Fry Girl?
That was a bit awkward…which made it even funnier!
I remember Ralph making the promise back in the first 10 episodes or so to get Kev and Seth MacFarlane together.
I still wanna see that happen!

OH SHIT SON!!!
Mystery motherfuckin’ solved up in this bitch.
That’s cool, man.
This isn’t gonna post for a few months so we gotta keep that under wraps!
So, how did you and the Rock Star that is good sir @TheJSarge hook up to form @IrvingsBasement?

@MemeEmSteveDave: Well, I always loooved Argus (The TESD theme), and befriended JSarge in the early days of TESD.
I wanted to work with him on something because we had many ideas about music, but I recall that he was occupied at the time.
I was living in South America, and had time to spare seemingly and one day he sent me a demo of a track he had wrote, to see if I’d like to work on it.
The result was Bezlotek on my Mind: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CYqBhh4ciKM 

I played the guitars and made the video on a road trip close to where I was living.
JSarge did everything else.
From then on in, we’d record on and off, depending on our work/ family situations.

You dig, Scoob?

ThatScoobyDoom: How long have you guys been working together officially as Irving’s Basement?
And would I be right in guessing you guys still haven’t met in person?

That video is fuckin’ entrancing dude!
I’ve not heard everything you guys have done, but what I have heard it (I hate to say it again, but it fits) is so fuckin’ rhythmically entrancing it’s kinda soothing/calming and I find myself sorta zombified in a way.
Just slowly nodding my head.
It ain’t AC/DC, but it sure is fuckin’ good…so good I had to ask youse guys if I a could borrow a song for one of my vids.

I don’t know if you’ll remember, but can you tell me how you guys came up with Comfort Problems?
Cause I really dig that song alot.

@MemeEmSteveDave: Mmm … As for that, it was the same kind of thing.
JSarge sent me a demo, and I worked on it.
We have a couple of different versions, aside from the final one.
I had one which was loud as Hell.
I’ll have to dig that out sometime.

Irving’s Basement has been going since about the beginning of 2012.
We have never met as JSarge lives all the way over there, and I am across the pond, and even when I lived across the pond, it was wayyy south of the States, and next to the other pond (The Pacific). 

ThatScoobyDoom: Is it normal for you guys to have a few versions of a song?

I ask because it fascinates me.
I’ve collaborated with folks from all of the world myself, people that I will never meet.
It’s always interesting for me to see how and talk to talented fuckers that don’t let distance or vast bodies of water stop them from coming together and completing a project.
3 years?
Shit, that’s cool.

So before we wrap this up, I wanna get back to that which was the whole reason I brought you in, Lord Of The Rings, for just a bit.
I mentioned the extended editions earlier and I wanted to ask if you, like so many including meself, prefer those to the theatrical cuts?

@MemeEmSteveDave: It’s quite normal to record several versions of tracks, before I send everything over, and a final version is mastered.
The Bezlotek EP features the original version, the Morricone version, (A spaghetti western inspired version) and Bezlotek Ice which is over 30 minutes long. 

And so, to The Rings … ‘say what you will about Jesus, but leave the Rings alone!’ Yeah, the Extended cuts are my absolute favourites.
I can hardly watch the theatrical cuts anymore, because of what is missing from the extended cuts, and the same goes for The Hobbit.
I have the extended versions of Rings on blu now, which is beautiful.
I remember Mewes talking about it on Twitter one day, and he said “LotR on blu is incredible,” or something to that effect, and I was like, “How incredible can it be?” SO I went out and bought a blu-ray player to find out, and sure enough, it’s pretty incredible. 

When I saw The Hobbit for the first time, I was like, “It was OK,” but when I saw the extended cut, it took me back to feeling how I felt when the LotR movies were released.
The Desolation of Smaug extended cut is particularly astounding.
Gandalf in Dol Goldur … that stuff was left out of the theatrical cut.
How dare they?!
I can’t wait for the extended Battle of the FIve Armies, and I think that may be it.
As stated earlier, I don’t think Tolkien’s estate will allow the making of any more movies, which is a shame.
Some of The Silmarillion shuff is beautiful, but seems, confined to remain on the printed page forevermore.

ThatScoobyDoom: 30 minutes long?
Holy shit!!!
That sounds like a melodic wet dream.

I’ve…I’ve never actually seen the theatrical cut of Fellowship.
My dad liked the books but for some reason we never got it when it came out, I don’t remember when we got the Extended exactly but I watched it sometime before Two Towers came out and it was unlike anythink I’d seen before.
Towers dropped and I got it and was disappointed at the lack of development/character moments, few months later a neighbor moved in that had Two Towers extended and let me borrow it.
It was a revelation!
I quickly learned to just stick to the Extendeds.

I (sadly) haven’t seem any of the Hobbit movies, but does it bother you AT ALL that they split the shortest book in 3?
Because I STILL see motherfuckers bitching about it.

I also see so called “Tolkien purists” who complain they changed the story just to make it line up more with Rings, can you shed some light on that?

@MemeEmSteveDave: Yeah, 30 minutes long. It’s an interesting take on Bezlotek, and  it’s available to hear, here: https://irvingsbasement.bandcamp.com/album/bezlotek-ep

Before I saw the Fellowship extended, I only had the theatrical version, which I loved and made me fall in love with LotR, so it’s not bad at all.
It’s just I prefer all the extra stuff. 

Well, we discussed Goblet/Phoenix/Half-Blood Prince should have been two movies each, and The Hobbit being made into three movies really pleased me.
Can’t wait for the extended cut in December.
It’s a fact that when anything has been written and will appear on the screen, it won’t be a literal showing of the text.
People don’t like it, but that’s the way it is.
People can moan about the films changing the story of the books to make the story line fit, but The Hobbit was changed once the Lord of the Rings was changed to better fit the story, specifically Bilbo finding the Ring.
It’s actually touched upon in the prologue, presented that Bilbo wrote the original story, and it was later changed to say what had really had happened, s Bilbo had lied to the dwarves about the circumstances of how he found the Ring.

At the end of the day, you have The Hobbit, extra material, and whatever else in about 10 hours of film.
People just like to complain about movies.
For years, there was no Hobbit movie because it was tangled up in legal disputes, and there are movies and projects trapped in Development Hell.
Maybe I try to look at everything too positively (which I do), so I guess you have to watch it and make up your own mind,

ThatScoobyDoom: I’m gonna listen to this soon!

As you said though, it’s hard to go back.
I don’t have the theatrical cut of Fellowship and I’m never gonna get it.
As you and Mewes said, this shit is made for Blu.
I don’t have the blu’s but I hope ta get ’em someday.
Look so good.

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I think there is a way to preserve the text and still make a good movie, the first 2 Potters did.
They cut shit, but not enough to effect the story in a bad way.
Prisoner is where they started losing me.

I know man, I’m not immune to bitching myself.
Speaking of that development hell, one of the big start stops had to do with the director.
So where do you stand on Del Toro?
Some were happy he left, others weren’t.
I’ve heard some even say that the first one feels like he directed it because it has his fingerprints all over it.

@MemeEmSteveDave: Azkaban is where I began to get a bit annoyed, too, to be honest.
I loved the darker direction, but all the stuff they cut annoyed the Hell out of me.
Nowadays, it’s seen as a lot of people’s favourite movie, but when I first seen it, I was disappointed that they cut out The Marauders, changes to the story, and even Dumbledore.
I loved Richard Harris, and was never really impressed with Michael Gambons angry take on Dumbledore.

I quite like Guillermo Del Toro.
The guy (kinda) made a live action movie of one of my favourite series of all time: Neon Genesis Evangelion.
Of course, Pacific Rim is not Eva, but almost like it.
I’ll take it.
Do you know NGE?

Del Toro wrote the script, so naturally, his mark has been left on the film.
It’s fine with me.
I’m just happy to have The Hobbit available to see on the big screen.

ThatScoobyDoom: I remember Mosier saying was his favorite, which baffled me.
I’ll never forget the first time I saw it, me and my Mom watched it on DVD and when the credits started to roll she slowly turned to me, blinked like 3 times and says “…what the fuck just happened???”
My simple reply was “I have no idea…AND I READ THE BOOK!!!”
It was my favorite book and they completely gutted all the story points to the point that folks knew shit and you had no clue how they knew shit until like 2 movies later…and everybody in the world was okay with shit just happening with no explination…it was just a clusterfuck of monolithic proportions.
They even made Dumbledore’s office into Remus’ office which really fucked things up.
At that point I sorta just checked out of the movies and just watched as Emma Watson grew more and more stunning…which I have a “signed” headshot of her, I wrote a letter and got that back on Christmas Eve.
Yeah, but by the time they got to Order, I think if they’d left that scene in where Harry goes apeshit and starts destroying Dumbledore’s gizmos and gadgets, angry Albus would have fit.
I missed Harris too, but not like they had a choice.
Crazy Albus we got.

I don’t know it at all, I haven’t seen Pacific Rim either.

I know Jackson had his reasons, but I thought it was weird he didn’t just do it from the jump.
Who knows the big screen version of this world better than him?
He brought it to life before, makes sense that he would again.

Did they get Christopher Lee into Hobbit?

@MemeEmSteveDave: Peter Jackson said during LotR that he would never make a movie trilogy again, from the stress that approaching deadlines caused.
That was why Del Toro was brought in, but as the legal ramifications seemed like they would never be sorted, he had to go as he had other commitments.
Completely understood, but I felt like it should have only been Peter Jackson, anyway.

Christopher Lee was brought in to movie one and three of The Hobbit.
And great he is, too.
What a life he had, man.
Dracula, Scaramanga, Count Dooku, Saruman and whatever else he played.
What an incredible life.
And he was in contact with Tolkien, when he was alive.
If one could achieve a fraction in life of what he achieved, one would have a tale to tell, would they not?

ThatScoobyDoom: That’s the big secret of the film industry right there, deadlines.
Studios impose these hard deadlines and in some cases it turns into you get a movie done…not a movie done well.

Amd don’t forget his metal album!
He’s the type of dude that should’ve had a podcast because as you say, you know that dude had stories on top of stories on top of stories.
From seeing the last public execution im France, to knowing Tolkien, to working with George Lucas (a modern day Tolkien), to doing what had to have been a life long fantasy an being in 5 movies based on the work of Tolkien.
Cause it’s well documented that he was a huge fan of that work, he’d read the Rings books every year for like the last 50 years or some such shit.
So to just ask him “fuck being in it, what was it like to see a movie based on these books you’ve loved for decades dude?”.
The day he died sucked ass.
That day was made worse for Wrestling fans with the loss of Dusty Rhodes.

@MemeEmSteveDave: Very well said, sir … On everything.
Did you hear about the Stone Cold/Rowdy Roddy Piper debacle?

ThatScoobyDoom: Recent?
No!
What happened???

@MemeEmSteveDave: Ask and ye shall receive!

http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2015/0713/598234/roddy-piper-talks-steve-austin-controversy/

ThatScoobyDoom: Wow!
That’s fucked up!
I just read about it on another site, did you see the 3rd person involved?

@MemeEmSteveDave: No! Who is it?!

ThatScoobyDoom: Dave Thomas, Founder Of Wendy’s!!!
KRACK-A-DOOOM!
*mic drop*

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Hahahaha!
So I guess you are a fan of the wrasslin’?

@MemeEmSteveDave: Motherfucker.

Haha, yeah.
Foley, Austin, Rock. Attitude era.
Loved that stuff, man. Yourself?

ThatScoobyDoom: AHAHAHAHA!!!
I’m sorry, I had to!

Oh yes, I watched that era growing up and I have almost every PPV from WrestleMania XX to WrestleMania 28 on DVD.
Foley and Austin are awesome, Dwayne I have a distaste for.
But the dude that I’ve always rooted for the hardest would be the Phenom, Undertaker.
I remember being thunderstruck by his entrances as a kid.
Dude is truly a legend if only for maintaining that gimmick that should really be laughed out of the building in 2015…not just maintaining it, but thriving with it.
Amazing!

@MemeEmSteveDave: How strange that yesterday we were speaking about Rowdy Roddy Piper and today he has passed away.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah…I was just about to ask you about that.
How hard did that hit you?

@MemeEmSteveDave: Well, it was a shock because of everything which has happened in the past fortnight.
But I watched between Wrestlemanias 9-19.
Or thereabouts, so that was really after his time, with a few exceptions.
I did like him, though.
Dastardly heel, with a wealth of stories, from an interesting life.
It’s a shame he never got to document it all, aurally, but what he did get down was gold.

ThatScoobyDoom: I had never heard his pod but I might hafta check it out.
I was a bit more than shocked, I’ve recently said he’d be a good replacement for Hogan in the next WWE/Scooby-Doo movie.
I’ve been a fan for years!
They Live was fuckin’ awesome, I actually talked to Fitz about trying to write a TESD Parody of that movie.
But yeah, he and Dusty both were amongst the best talkers in the buisness.
It’s barely sunk in.
Did you see the DVD set they did 6 years or so ago with the doc about him?
Great shit.

@MemeEmSteveDave: I don’t know too much about the guy, but respected what he did.
I listened to his pod for a while, but eventually they all bled into one.
The odd episode will come along which I’ll be into, but aside from that, they’ve kinda all became the same thing.

Wrestling is weird inasmuch as yes, it’s scripted, and yes, Cena blows, but once every so often I’ll get the urge, and it’ll surprise me for a while.
But I never dug Hogan, or a lot of the pre-90’s crowd.
Or post-90’s crowd, now that I come to think of it.
I do love, however, how the podcast is an important part of the wrestling experience.
Absolutely great for the format.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, I know how that goes.

I’ve never understood how wrestling being scripted is a reason to knock it.
Nobody bitched when that recent soul searing documentary by James Cameron turned out to be scripted…I’m of course refering to fuckin’ Avatard!
Who cares if it’s scripted???
That makes it no less valuble than any other form of entertainment.
All I have to say to those dickbrains is NEWSFLASH FUCKHEADS!!!
The Avengers, Jurassic World, Star Wars AND Trek ain’t fuckin’ real either!

You don’t like Cena?
What’s he ever done that was so bad, man?

@MemeEmSteveDave: One watch of Beyond The Mat is enough to show someone exactly how things are run, by whom, and the repercussions.
What a great film.
Personally, I think I am due a rewatch soon.

Cena just pissed me off with his gimmick when he came in.
I started to tire of it, and actually stopped watching for about 7 years.
It’s a shame because his debut match was so good, and full of promise.
Check it, John Cena Vs. Kurt Angle.
Kurt seems genuinely frustrated with this unknown kid, and he did this thing I have only seen once to pick up the win: it’s a sure fire way to pin someone so they can’t get out of it. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=10ivQ3ogO1M

I think I feel about him, how you feel about The Rock.

ThatScoobyDoom: Never seen it, just read Mick Foley talk about it a few times.
Care to explain a bit?

I’ve seen the match.
I know all about RUTHLESS…AGGRESSION!!!
Was impressive.
Hated Cena when he started, the whole Eminem wanna be bullshit just wasn’t for me.
But in 2007 they released that 3 disc DVD about him and I had no interest in it…but here in the states at Circuit City they released it with one of those Fathead poster things for Smackdown Vs Raw 2008 and that had Undertaker on it.
$22 and you get a free Fathead with Taker on it???
I FUCKIN’ POUNCED!!!
Threw the DBD (Dusty tribute right there) aside for a few weeks to collect dust…then I figured “I have it, why not spin it?” so I watched it and from that point on I’ve been a huge fan of his.
He seems like one of the few guys that is genuinely in love with the business and company.
I have insane respect for that.
Folks blame him for his unchanging gimmick and shit but the fact is it’s just not his decision.
As long as he and his gear continue to make MILLIONS for that company, he’ll be that saccharine sweet, squeaky clean, safe for kids dude that the internet hates.

Oh, I highly doubt that.
I detest Dwayne for his constant insulting of WWE and WWE fans in his years away.
Cena wasn’t lying in the build up to WM with all that shit he said about the dude.
When he dropped “The Rock” from his name he got real pissy about it telling folks Rock was just a dead character and all that other shit.
Before he came back everybody else remembered it, now they all drink the punch that he poisons.
And it’s sad, cause I was a huge fan…but now?
He’s just Dwayne to me, I can’t stand to see his fuckin’ face.
Him, Miz, and Hogan can all fuck off.

@MemeEmSteveDave: Beyond the Mat is a documentary showing several types of wrestler.
The Up-and-Comers.
The guy about to get signed (Droz).
The guy on top (Foley), and the guy on the way down (Jake The Snake).
It’s interesting because you see lots of backstage stuff, interviews with WWF brass (Jim Ross), and other aspects of the business that you’d never see anywhere else.
It’s well worth the watch, and it’s heartbreaking at times, especially when you see the Royal Rumble match.

I don’t grudge Rock.
His family is rooted in the business and he moved on, for a while.
I’ve always been entertained by him, and enjoy when he makes an appearance.
Never dug Hogan or Miz, though, so a double- fuck off for them.

Good reading your experience with Cena.
Maybe I should give the dude a chance.
I do like the passion that he has for the business when I’ve heard him on pods.

ThatScoobyDoom: Oh, I can imagine.
I’ve wanted to see it since I first heard about it.
It sounds very thorough.
Did you ever see that doc about Bret Hart that ran through the screw job?
You wanna see something riveting, spin that shit…and I don’t like Hart.

He just seemed like he got to big for his britches, as they say.
He started believing his own hype and it’s like “dude, you did The Toothfairy, take it down a notch!”, ya know?

I think if can you look beyond the screen persona you’ll find his worth.
His interview with Austin is great, that right there is a perfect example of his passion.
I mean, shit, he even got divorced because he was more dedicated to WWE.
Watch that My Life doc, good shit.

@MemeEmSteveDave: I used to love Bret Hart.
I think that stuff which happened to him and his family were a shame.
I loved Owen, too, when I was younger.
He was a heel for a majority of the time, but I could look past that, with him, and always appreciated what he did, especially his run with Bret as warring brothers (which I understood a lot).
I’d love to see that documentary, I find the Montreal Screwjob fascinating.
Probably the turning point for wrestling in these later years.
Was it a shoot?
Was it a work?
I don’t know.
Everyone seems to change their stories every other week.
Except the one guy who got shit on. Bret.

ThatScoobyDoom: Bret has always rubbed me the wrong way, I’m not sure why.
But what happened with Owen is definitely up there as one of the worst tragedies to ever befall the buisness, I’d probably put it behind the Benoit Incident and The Screw Job as most impactful.

I tend to side with Vince when it comes to the Screw Job though.
In that time Vince was scared shitless because he’d had guys he thought he could count on piss in his fuckin’ face on live tv by throwing his belts in the trash on the competitions show and shit.
Everybody else (Shawn, HHH, Earl Hebner) were just carrying out Vince’s orders.
It’s a sad truth though, if you get burned so many times by folks you’re gonna start making preemptive strikes.

That’s what the Screw Job was, in a nutshell.
It’s on that same list of impactful incidents, and like the Benoit thing, you can still feel the reverberations from it today.

@MemeEmSteveDave: Yeah, there are things that happen which are still felt years later.
It’s weird, because now the podcast is just as important, in that sense.
In the past, aside from the incidents you mentioned, like the Kliq at MSG, Shaun Michaels getting his ass kicked in NYC and Alundra Blayze throwing the Women’s Championship in the bin on Nitro were what impacted the future.
What has happened recently in the podcast world was CM Punk explaining why he left the WWE (What an enthralling listen), Vince on Austin’s pod, and the aforementioned Austin/Piper debacle.
It’s going to be interesting to see what else happens in the future.
You hear another side to the people you see on TV, once they get going on a pod.

Can you recall anything of note which I might be forgetting?

ThatScoobyDoom: Punk finally explained why he left???
What pod was this on?

I think these guys writing books started us om that road, specifically Foley and Y2J’s books.
I’ve read all 4 of Mick’s books and the last 2 really pull back the curtain on WWE & TNA.
He describes the creative process indepth, details his battles with Vince and why HE left WWE after the announcing job.
After that, you really understand how good the WWE announcers really are.

How great was Austin’s pod with Vince?
Near the end where Vince dropped his dick on the table and said “I own the network, we’re going 10 minutes more”?
Wow, that was fucked up and funny.

I think Austin’s pod has had the most interesting shit for me, HHH breaking down this years Rumble not long after it happened, describing the fans revolt to Reigns winning was riveting!

The only thing I can think of would be Jericho getting Bill Demott on to talk a bit about why he was fired from WWE.
That was pretty interesting and gave me a new perspective on Demott.

@MemeEmSteveDave: Yeah, CM Punk went on Colt Cabana’s podcast, The Art of Wrestling: 226 and returned for an aftermath on 227 (seehttps://soundcloud.com/coltcabana/aow-226-cm-punk and  https://soundcloud.com/coltcabana/aow-227-cm-punk-returns ), and explained everything as to why he left.
Such an intriguing listen, and a look into the WWE of today.
This was unprecedented because he basically blasted almost all the brass at WWE and other talent, and staff, and explained about what happened when he left, and how he got his revenge.

The wrestling book was great, and I especially liked Foleys works because he wrote them all himself, without the aid of a ghostwriter.
Have a Nice Day was an especially great read and remains one of my favourites to this day, and is one of the reasons why i like Foley so much.

I loved Vince’s appearance on Austin’s pod.
It’s a great show because you can hear the real Vince in there, unlike you’ve really heard him before.
Austin said ages ago that he was going to try to get The Undertaker on is pod.
Man, I’d love to hear that.
That would be such a great show, as I’ve heard Austin tell of details of them both on the road in the past which have been hilarious.

I always liked Jericho, too.
As I said before, all the pods began to bleed into one and I had to make cuts, but I still see who is on the new episode, and if it tickles my fancy, I’ll give it a spin.

ThatScoobyDoom: I just listened to that.
Love or hate Punk (and trust me I have issues with him and a bit of what he said), but if you call yourself a fan of Wrestling, Sports Entertainment, WWE, TNA, ROH, any of it, that is must listen shit!

Yes, Foley has always been a favorite of mine too.
He’s one of the only heavy dudes in entertainment that was never just the fat idiot.
I’ve never been one of the folks that was bitchy because I don’t get much representaion in media, but when folks like Foley and Kev popped up I paid attention.
Smart motherfucker that made it in a field that was at a point where it was changing to be against him.
Such an eloquent dude.

It’s gonna happen on WWE network!
They’ve announced Taker will be on sometime this year.
I hope Austin posts it in his pod feed because that’s something I need to hear.
I’ve only seen Taker do 1 real interview and it was on Kimmel in like 2003, so it’ll be very interesting to hear.

Same here.

Damn, we’ve covered alot of shit, man.

@MemeEmSteveDave: I’ve always admired Punk.
Great on the mic, mesmerising in the ring, and I love his attitude.
That pod is very revealing, and I listened to that and the following episode several times.
I found it to be inspiring, and I’ll be interested to see where he goes in his career in the future.
Also, as a ‘small’ guy, he made it huge, which I always like to see.

I’ve enjoyed this Typecast, sir.
I remember when I saw the first one, and I thought ‘That’s a great concept,’ it’s like a pod, but like the transcript of a pod which doesn’t exist.
Guess you’d better start working on the audiobook version!

ThatScoobyDoom: I’ve always flip flopped on him, everything you said is true.
He can rock the stick like few others, he has a great presence, amazing skill, but there’s something about him that strikes me as off…some have said it’s because he has that I Don’t Give A Fuck attitude but I doubt it as I generally share the sentiment.
I really wonder how well the UFC will fit him.

That’s the idea.
Shit, I even talk about it like it’s a real pod.
Awwww, that would be fuckin’ awesome!
To record them all like we did Typecast 9 and release ’em some where, cause I’ve had alot of cool folks on (yourself included, JTF excluded).
As I said earlier, I would love to get one goin’, just gotta figure out how.

@MemeEmSteveDave: Fuck JTF.
Fuck him in his ear!

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I wanna say a big thank you to the good sir Meme ‘Em for taking the time to do this.
It took a few times, but I did, man!

If ya want some more Meme ‘Em (and after that how could ya not?) be sure to check out all of his great works.
Http://www.hbohelper.com/
Http://irvingsbasement.bandcamp.com/
Http://lexiconpod.blogspot.com/

And be sure to follow a few of his many accounts on Twitter!
@MemeEmSteveDave
@HBOHelper
@IrvingsBasement
@LexiconPod

Share this post on Twitter with the hashtag #Typecast!

I think that’s it, gang.
As always, the world is a hard place full of shitty people who will be unnecessarily cruel to you.
Fight against that by being a bright light for somebody on a bad day, you’ll never understand how much it can mean.

Thanks for reading and for always coming back, guys.
See ya next time.

How It Happened: Star Wars: The Challenge Of Darth Doom Episodes I – III

Get cozy, I wanna try to do this all in one go so it may take a while!

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Parts I, II, & III were written on September 4th 2014 at 1:58 PM, September 4th 2014 at 5:42 PM, & September 7th 2014 at 2:56 AM respectively in emails to @_13Chris.
She and I were on twitter talkin’ about Star Wars or Lightsabers or some such shit and some how got on the topic of my Lightsaber collection and either I offered to show her my blades or I asked if she wanted to see them (I forget man, get off my ass).
I think I tried tweeting or DMing them but they wouldn’t send, so I ended up emailing her shots of my Dooku, Starkiller, and Bane blades, easy peasy…but as seems to happen alot with me and my conversations, some how it turned into a playful argument.
Suddenly she and I were trading emails about how we were going to beat the hell out of each other with plastic tubes that light up and make whooshing sounds…for the record, we’re both over the age of 8…but apparently we’re both still childish shitheads cause it was funny!

So, without even thinking about it too much, I figured I could win the “argument” real quick with a little short story where nobody really gets hurt, just a quick spar.
From her last reply to the time I sent the email that contained, what would go on to be known as, Episode I of my Star Wars story 23 minutes had gone by.
It was just a goofy little thing I wrote because I hate losing arguments and fights, yes even fake ones…I’m stupid like that. Hahaha.

It took her 5 minutes to reply, and she said she dug it.
In my classic style, I deflected and said I pulled it out of my ass.
But she said it again.
Here’s the thing you’ve gotta understand about all of this, rarely, if ever, do I share something like this with anybody, especially somebody I have never (and chances are, will never) met in person.
Just not my style, man.
Hell, even Ross, the dude I’ve said many times that I feel is like a brother to me (read more about Ross and how important he is to me and TS-D/JA Productions here), hasn’t gotten to read alot of the shit I’ve written cause I just don’t like sharing, I like keeping my shit close to the vest until it’s ready to throw out into the world for everybody.
But this?
This was just to win an argument…wasn’t it?

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After she said it was good a time or 2 I think I just wanted to see if she was blowing smoke up my ass so I think I sent it to Ross & @Fitzman73 (I can’t find the emails, but I told @_13Chris in an email that I’d sent it to somebody for their opinion. Those are the only 2 I sent it too besides C-Dub at that point, I eventually shared it with @NeilGat also.).
Remember, this was September of last year, a full month before this site launched, so I didn’t know @Fitzman73 as well as I do today, but I knew for a fact that he was a fan of Star Wars for quite a few more years than I was.
Who better to ask to read it than him, right?

His replies literally stunned me.
First he said it was good, second he asked me if there was more.
My exact reply was “Nah, that’s all I wrote.
I did it in like 15 minutes in the middle of a wacky convo.”
His 3rd reply was the one that really threw me for a loop, he said it was better than some published Star Wars fiction he’d read.
Now, as should be obvious from reading this site for any amount of time, I’ve never had the most confidence in myself or my abilities, so my very first reaction was “this dude is a fuckin’ master of hyperbole”, but even if he was yankin’ my chain…A LOT…he still said he liked it.
Ross told me he thought it was pretty awesome, then encouraged me (yet again) to start a blog.
I can’t find @NeilGat‘s reaction, but knowing Neil it was pretty damn positive.

That’s 4 people, 4 different motherfuckers telling me this shit is good.
So let me tell you kids something, this picture just below this paragraph is 100% fucking true!
You encourage somebody enough and some cool shit is gonna happen.

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As you can tell from the time stamps above, I immediately started writing Episode II.
Why?
No clue, at this point I had no plans to make it into a video, I had nowhere to post it, I think it was just a personal challenge (and we all know I love those) to see if I could even do it.
I’ve thought for all the years that I’ve been into Star Wars (which isn’t as many as some seem to think) that it would be pretty cool to write a story set in the Galaxy Far Far Away, but it just felt like it was to far beyond my abilities.
These 4 dug it, so why the hell not?

Watch Episode I and I’ll tell you more about II after I break the video.

Episode I: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPXvHAA-B2g&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Yeah, I know I fucked up in the opening crawl.
The Rise Of Darth Doom was actually my first title, but I decided based on where I wanted to take the story after I’d written Episode III that The Challenge Of Darth Doom fit better.
I didn’t notice the fuck up until after I posted the video (the same sort of thing happened with my most recent video Confessions Of A Two-Faced Joker, I spelled Engineering “enginnering”. It’s a real shit that should not be for you Babble fans out there.).

That voice was a motherfucker to figure out as well.
It took me about 3 weeks of recording, rerecording, and rerecording again to nail it down.
@SteBoost even offered to give it a shot if I couldn’t settle on something.
The voice I was going for kept sounding like a mixture of Christopher Lee and Bane from Nolan’s 3rd Bat movie.
Based on the story and the way the Sith talks, that’s pretty much what I was going for.
That hint of aristocracy, this dude feels because he’s learning the ways of the Sith his shit don’t stank!
That’s hard to pin down, I think I did it, but that’s for all of you to decide.
I have found since I posted Episode I that I can slip into the voice with ease if I just say the very first line “She came at me swinging with an as yet unseen fire in her eyes”, but it was pretty rough for a while.

I was also able to get @ShariSayz to come and play the part of Padawan Arkinov, which I named in her honor.
I don’t have much to say about Shari’s work beyond excellent.
She always comes ready to play, she’s easy to direct (which is surprisingly hard from a few hundred miles away), and gives me great options.
I’m lucky to have found a lady of her talents to join in.

You’ll notice as you watch these that Episode I has almost as many views as II & III combined.
Well, the only way to explain it is sheer dumb luck!
25 days after I posted Episode I the first teaser for Star Wars Episode VII The Force Awakens was posted…and while I saw the trailer and loved what I saw, I loved the effect that trailer had on my video even more.
That weekend I got about 110 views just from riding the wave, and it was FUCKIN’ AWESOME!!!
Never before or since have I had a weekend like that, it was amazing.

Another fun thing to come out of Episode I involves a dude who’s done sound effects for some of my other videos, @FromTheMonkey.
After I posted Episode I, Mike (a huge Star Wars fan in his own right) told me how much he dug the video.
He then took the vid and added sound effects to it and played it on his podcast which you can hear over on his podcast Just Give Me A Few Minutes.
In his talk up, he mentions my apprehension about him doing it and I want to explain that a bit incase any of you are wondering.

I know when George Lucas was in charge, everything (music, sounds, all of it) was pretty much fair game to use as long as you weren’t making any money or saying “HEY YOU, BUY MY STAR WARS STORY. YOU, YES YOU!!! BUY THIS.”
George was hugely supportive of fans playing around in his universe and telling their stories, but now with Disney (a multimillion dollar mega corporation) in control?
Who knows, man?
I’ve always preferred to err on the side of caution.
Mike kept telling me I was overreacting, but what can I say?
I’m paranoid!
Which is why, no matter how fuckin’ cool it would be, I’ve never used the music from any Star Wars Movie or TV Show.
Now, with that in mind, go listen to what Mike added to my story here.

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So anyway, @_13Chris, @Fitzman73, @NeilGat, & Ross aka @SpiderScooby all dug the first part of this still untitled Star Wars story, so I hurriedly wrote part 2.
Again, Chris seemed to love it.
Asked me if I was writing more to which I told her I hadn’t planned to write either of them, but would keep her posted.
Fitz’s reaction was pretty good as well, he pointed out the descriptions.
I can’t find reactions from Ross or Neil, but they couldn’t have been bad or there probably wouldn’t be a 3 or 4.
So again, everybody dug it.

Making Episode II was way easier than Episode I, watch it and I’ll tell ya a bit about it after.

Episode II: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCdt6_tVb10&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Yes, twice as long as the first Episode.
More brutality, more action, and (at least in my very biased opinion) more awesome.

I kinda fucked the opening crawl on this on
e too.
Somehow, the size of the font shrunk.
Pulling back the curtain on the way that I do these, after I finished Episode I, I used the same file and cleared the audio and star field picture out, but I saved the opening titles and closing credits.
I just go into the opening title file thingy and redo the crawl that way I don’t have to start from scratch, all about saving time.
Somehow it shrunk.
I fixed it on Episode III.

@ShariSayz really knocked this one out.
As I recall, she recorded the dialogue for I and II at the same time.
And damn it’s impressive…most impressive.
Technically, this was her last time truly playing Padawan Arkinov, though I did get her to do a tiny bit of business for Episode III.
I can’t say it enough, Shari rocks!

So again (before any videos have been posted), spurred on mostly by @_13Chris & @Fitzman73, I started writing again.
I can’t find any evidence that I told those 2, or anybody else for that matter, that I was actually working on a 3rd part to the story.
But this is where my memory really starts to get fuzzy, and I’m struggling to find any emails from the time that might help to fill in the gaps, but I think I may have written most of Episode III while listening to one or more of the Evening With Kevin Smith Q&A DVD’s.
Because usually when I sit down to write something I throw one of the 4 that are on disc in an let ’em spin while I scribble my madness.
They really are a relaxing welcoming listen when you’re trying to create, highly recommended if you’re a fan of the dude.

Annnnywho!
As you can tell from above, it took me 3 days to finally figure it out.
Since she inspired it, I sent it to the lovely @_13Chris first.
Unsurprisingly, she really seemed to dig it.

I wanna take a second here to shine a bit of a spotlight on dear lady Chris
It’s impossible to express how instrumental Chris has been in boosting me (and many folks on the twitters) when it comes to any sort of creative endeavors.
The chick is just plain awesome.
She’s always there when you feel like shit (which is pretty often for me), she’s always trying to instill confidence, lift you up, and make you fell better when you feel your worst.
The listeners of the Tell ‘Em Steve-Dave podcast all seem to be a pretty depressed group, and @_13Chris, more than anybody else I’ve seen, tries to make everybody feel better.
She’s got an insane fuckin’ Spidey sense and always seems to pop up when you need her.
If you’re reading this and you’re on twitter, click one of the spots where her name is highlighted and either follow her or just let her know how cool she is.
I try to often, but it’ll never be often enough.
You rock Chris.

Getting back on track, she dug it.
I’d also sent it to @Fitzman73, again because he’s the Star Wars guru I turn to for everything.
He dug it too.
And that was basically the end of it.
I still didn’t have this site yet so I wasn’t going to post it anywhere in prose form.
But shit man, I didn’t wanna let this die on the vine.
Then I have the obvious Jimmy Neutron-esque BRAIN BLAST and decided to make videos!

I think when I sent this around to the gang above I told them Episode III was written to be a slow burn to set up an eventual Episode IV, if I ever felt up to writing it.

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As I wrote I kept getting these flashes of images of an Army of Clones in this grand hall…go watch/listen to the video and we’ll talk after!

Episode III: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWNdTKdCM2Y&feature=youtube_gdata_player

See what I mean about it being a slow burn?
It has lots of quiet time in contemplation that leads up to that shock of the crisp Army of shiny new Clones.

Now, I specifically made sure Episode III went up in May as my little silent statement that I doubt anybody noticed.
I was kinda bummed when The Force Awakens was set for a December release date, I’ve said all along I’d prefer them to just delay is 6 months and release it in May to fall in line with the release schedule that George adhered to.
So as soon as this story of mine fell into my lap, I knew one of these Episodes was going to go up in May so at least there was something Star Wars in May.
Yes, I know that’s petty.
Also, I posted it on the 2 year Anniversary of my very first video Bitch Slappin’ The Wind.

As I’d said before, after Episode II I thought that I was done with @ShariSayz.
She’d answered my call for help for those first 2 parts and made it sing.
But as I was editing Episode III, I’d really started getting tired of the sound of my own voice.
I want to add somebody else to the mix just to break up the monotony me.
I’d written the part about the Padawan being on her last legs and in a final act of defiance against the tyrannical Sith she spit a mouth full of blood into his face.
Now when I asked Shari to play the Padawan, I figured I could do that on my own, but I tried and it just sounded like me.
Even with Doom saying that she spit in his face, to me, it sounded like me.
Me spitting in my face.
It’s one of those things that the majority of normal people probably wouldn’t notice, but if you’re someone like me that listens to cartoons and will call out who’s voicing who, it’s unacceptable.

So I fired off an email and ask Shari if she could do the sound for me.
It’s weird because you’d think a stupid human sound effect wouldn’t be that different, but it made all the difference and made the whole thing sing for me.
And it gave me one last shot to give Shari some credit for helping make these first 3 parts of the story come together as well as they did.
It’s not even a second long, but it sells the brutality of this monsterous beasts branded as Sith in a way I just couldn’t do alone.
Great work @ShariSayz!

As I start wrap up, I want to give you a wee little tease for the final installment, Episode IV.
Whilst I was writing 3 I remember kind of forming what would be the ultimate end of this whole story.
I wrote it in script form, rather than prose.
It introduces a 2 characters into the story who’ve not been from yet (but if you’ve been paying attention to the story so far, you can guess who they are) and a new voice that I’ve never recorded before.

At the time I wrote the conclusion, I didn’t know if it would be IV Episodes or V and I didn’t want to rush to the end just to connect the dots.
But with the help of @Fitzman73 (who was actually a great sounding board for the many ideas I had and brought a few of his own that really helped) I came up with great connective tissue to bridge the gap from the end of III to the scripted end I wrote.
Episode IV may end up being the longest Episode, and also my longest video, yet.

I’ve told her many times, but this is probably my favorite thing I’ve ever done, and I owe it all to @_13Chris.
I never thought I had a Star Wars story in me, but she found a way to bring it out.
A million thanks C-Dub!

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If you’re interested, you can watch the entire story with this handy playlist: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPXvHAA-B2g&list=PLgSiz8m5GATGm8yBCFIP5DmGqX3znHjtK&sns=tw

Share this post on twitter with the hashtags #StarWarsDarthDoom & #HowItHappened.

To keep up to date with everything TS-D/JA Productions, follow @TSDJAProduction.

And finally!
The world is full of hateful, shitty, bitter people that will try to make you feel as low as they do.
Take a stand against them and combat all of that by putting a little bit of good into the world, even if it’s just a smile to a person having a bad day.
Thanks for reading.

Typecast 12: Fitz And The Funny Books

Hey everybody, remember that time @Fitzman73 and I read those Star Wars comics (which you can read here: https://tsdjaproductions.wordpress.com/2015/01/27/typecast-5-four-color-fitz/)?
Well guess what!
We done gone and did it again!
This go round we read issues 7-10 and had a little chat about ’em…and when I say a little bit I mean buckle the fuck up cause we’re long winded motherfuckers!

This conversation appears just as it was had, flaws, fuck-ups, and…something else that starts with F and means flawed.
Fitzman’s name is his twitter handle, appears in red, and links to his podcast Just Jump To The End that he does with his sister, @Tacky1z.

And so we begin…

ThatScoobyDoom: Before we get into these 4 issues, lets talk a bit about your history with ’em.
If I remember right, didn’t you say last time that the arc after this was when you started getting your monthlies?
If that’s right, when did you first read these?

@Fitzman73: Yeah, I think so.
I know I said that but I might actually be misremembering that.
I checked my stash and I only have a couple of these in single issue, it’s the next arc with the water planet and the red haired space pirate dude that I started collecting on the reg.
And by “reg”, I still mean whenever I was at a store and saw an issue.
These were still the days of shit shows up on the spinner when it shows up.
There wasn’t a new comic book day for me so even though I was actively looking for the next issue if it didn’t show up on the rack at Kroger that month or my mom didn’t have 35 cents (can you believe that cover price? Wow) I missed that issue.

I think actually the first time I read this arc, which I’m going to call the “Seven Samurai” arc (or the “Magnificent Seven arc” if you’re some kind of uncultured slob), was probably when I bought this omnibus a few years ago.
I’m sure I read a couple issues of it as a kid because I have distince memories of one of the most infamous characters in it (which we will no doubt cover at length later) but I don’t think I read the whole arc until recently.

ThatScoobyDoom: Hey man, I may have grown up 20 years after you but I know that fuckin’ struggle!
When I first started getting comics I was only getting the original Scooby comic that DC published.
I knew nothing of comic shops, the first 20-30 issues I was able to get were bought at QuikTrip when I could find them.
I learned fast that it dropped the first week of the month and I had to get it then or I missed that issue.
I know the struggle all to well.

If comics were still 35¢ I’d still be buying them!

Just to keep it Star Wars, lets call it the Bounty Hunters arc (The Clone Wars, Season 2 Disc 4 fuckos), and I am an uncultured slob thank you very much!

Really?
For some reason that is strange to me, I figured you’d have been all over this long before 2010 (when this Omnibus was published).

@Fitzman73: The Marvel version of Star Wars really lost its shine for me after the OT was complete.
As you’ll see if we ever make it that far things start unravelling after Jedi from what I recall.
Not that this series really ever captured Star Wars, it just lost me at some point and I kinda put it down and wasn’t all that interested in revisiting them until I got really nostalgic a few years ago.
Now of course I can read these and appreciate the janky 70s artwork and corny ass dialog (very similar to my appreciation of Batman 66) and just allow it to be fluff and not get all fanboy ragey about how “this ain’t Star Wars!”

Although, I actually started the first issue of this arc last night fresh off the heels of watching the Rebels season 1 finale, and that might’ve been a bad idea.
To go from Star Wars perfection in Rebels to, wow how do I say this nicely, terribly written 70s Star Wars fanfic, it’s rough.
The dialog so far is beyond the pale. Lol.

ThatScoobyDoom: See, you can say that now, or even 16 years ago, because you have a set of rules for Star Wars, but in January of 78?
Star Wars was just 1 movie, that’s it.
But now?
Star Wars is far more.
Sure, it lost you.
And sure, it’s not really great, but at the time I’m sure you guys were just nuttin’ in your britches just cause you saw more Luke, Han, and Leia.
By 84, there was a bit of defintion too, so these kinda lost their luster, but even then it was hard to nail down what was Star Wars.
I can’t comment on 66, I think I pissed folks off enough with Typecast #7. Lol

I didn’t read it yet, I wanted to talk about it just a little bit first, but I have no doubt this non-movie issues are gonna be rrrrrrough!
Rough!
Rrrough!

Don’t bring up Rebels, man!
I wanna stick to these comics and I don’t wanna get distracted by that sweet sweet goodness. Lol

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So, as always, lets start with the cover, I see 3 things that are either strange or just fuckin’ horrible.
I’ll get to those, but what do you think of it?

@Fitzman73: Only 3?

Like I said I picked this up right after watching some of the best Star Wars possibly since the OT, so I found myself being really hard on this issue.

Right off the bat, to me Han Solo looks like Moe Howard.
And I can’t figure out why a wanted poster for Chewbacca needs to say “Chewbacca The Wookiee”.
His fucking picture is on it!
Does he need that speciest title?
I mean it doesn’t say “Han Solo The Caucasian Human”.
The alien Han is grappling with looks like Merman fucked the Demon Etrigan.
Such an un-Star Warsy design.

ThatScoobyDoom: I didn’t watch Rebels and I think I’m gonna shred this issue too.

Yeah, 3…and you nailed one of them.
That Koala Fish Mutant Bird Creature guy that Chewie has by the collor couldn’t be more un-Star Wars.
I was thinking of “Gone Gone the form of man” as well and that little barnacle faced fucker from JJ’s first Trek movie.

I just noticed Han looking like a whoop whoop whoopin’ idiot.
I noticed the Chewie thing on the poster too, but let that slide cause that’s what everybody calls him.

My other 2 things were:
1. Han’s word balloon.
“Grab a laser•gun”
A laser•gun…a fuckin’ laser•gun???
When in that movie did they call a goddamn blaster a “laser•gun”?

2. Chewie himself looks like a furry turd supermodel vampire.

Woofah, are we in for a not fun time or what?

@Fitzman73: Laser-gun is one of the LEAST ridiculous things that come out of his mouth.
Buckle up because this is going to get ugly….

ThatScoobyDoom: When you say ugly I’m not sure what you’re talking about…art?
Story?
Dialogue?
All 3?

Lets start with the art, it appears that even after 6 issues Howard Chaykin still has no clue what the fuck Chewie is supposed to look like!
Look at panel 3 on page 119, it looks like Chewie is trying to tranny trick Han or something!
And from there it, somehow, though as inconceivable as it may seem, it just gets worse for poor Chewie.

@Fitzman73: It’s so funny that you say tranny trick because I have that in my notes for later in the issue!

Yeah he can’t draw Chewie and apparently doesn’t have a grip on the Falcon either.
At this point there should be more than enough reference material for both.

Actually I have more of a problem with the dialog.
The way they use contemporary real world slang is fucking maddening.

It started out pretty good though, I liked the fact that they begin right where the movie left off with Han leaving Yavin to pay Jabba and the Rebels in serious need of scouting for a new base.
That’s something you don’t think about after episode 4.
They would’ve had to get the hell off Yavin before the rest of the Empire showed up.
So it’s cool that one of the subplots is going to be them looking for a new place to hide.

Then they ruin it immediately by having Han literally use the phrase “space spurs”.
Space spurs?
What the fuck?
If you notice, Han talks like John Wayne or somebody during this whole issue.
Fail.

ThatScoobyDoom: Hahaha, I can see why you would!
I didn’t even make notes on this issue cause I was just so stunned by how bad it was.

Motherfuck reference material, all he needs is 1 fucking photo of Chewie, doesn’t even need to have Mayhew in the goddamn costume, he has no defense.
The Falcon is a bit harder to capture, that’s hard to capture all of that detail…that said, you are correct.

It did start of great, I didn’t read that Dark Horse Star Wars book that that Wood dude did or the new Marvel Star Wars book, but it seems like this might well be the closest we’ve actually gotten to the end of A New Hope.
It was really cool to see…but it didn’t last long!
That red bearded douche in the black Daisy Duke’s kind of killed the high of that for me.

This goes too two of your points, the dialogue and the “space spurs”.
I swear to Bob that they think that this stupid bullshit sounds cool, AND ADDING SPACE TO A FUCKING WORD DOESN’T MAKE IT COOL AND STAR WARSY GODDAMN IT!!!
I swear to god I was expecting him to call somebody pilgrim!

@Fitzman73: And it’s especially egregious because Roy Thomas is not a bad writer in general.
He’s done a lot of shit by but wow he does NOT get Star Wars at all.

Did you catch where they have Han say he’s going back to Dantooine to pay Jabba?
I might let that mistake slide except for in the very next panel they refer to it as Tatooine?
What the fuck man.
This was the 70s baby, ain’t nobody got time for quality control.

Ah yes.
Enter the Space Pirates.
So basically for anyone who hasn’t read this issue, the Falcon gets intercepted by a giant Star Destroyer-like cruiser full of, yep, pirates, led by a burly red haired guy in hot pants named Crimson Jack.
Who proceed to board the ship and steal all of Han’s reward money.
Which is a handy way to explain (if this were canon) why he never got that money to Jabba.

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And these aren’t cool space pirates like Hondo and his gang of Weequays on the Clone Wars.
These are literally pirates in space.
Pirate head scarves, striped shirts, for Christ’s sake one of them has an actual cutlass.
The only thing missing is a parrot.

But then there’s Jollie, the lady pirate.
Who by the way reminds me an awful lot of the female member of the Oktober Guard in the old Marvel G.I. Joe comic.
She’s such an angry young lady.
Spoilers, this is not the last time we’ll see Crimson Jack and his crew.

ThatScoobyDoom: Completely true.

I saw that and was going to mention it, there is shit in these that’s just so easily fixable it’s clear that whoever the fuck made this deal for Marvel was just laughing their ass off all the way to the bank.
It just smacks of laziness and little effort.

Yeah sorry, I forgot to do a breakdown, much like my lack of notes, I’m just fuckin’ gobsmacked by how legitimately shitty this is.
I swear dude, I was excited to read through these issues before but after just this one issue I gotta say…I’ve got a bad feeling about this…I get the feeling these next 60 issues and 2 annuals are going to be painful.

I love how they feel the goddamn need to say “there is even the white, stoic armor of a fallen stormtrooper, strangely out of place.” mixed in with this shithead and his merry band of morons.
And look at the panel after the stormtrooper, Han looks like a chick from the 60’s with that stupid ass hair style.

That chick is blood thirsty, she’s in like 6 panels and she wants to or threatens to kill Han and Chewie 3 times.
That’s nuts!
I’ve never been a big G.I. Joe fan but I can see why you’d say that.

Have you noticed all of the panels that are incredibly offensive to asians?
That first shot with Jolli has Crimson Jack looking like Charlie from Mr. Magoo.
After that panel I heard that voice because of it.
That last panel is bad for the same reason.

@Fitzman73: Yeah I didn’t notice the Mr Magoo thing, but the guys in the last panel are pretty blatant and borderline offensive.
It’s even weirder because I’m pretty sure they’re not even in the next issue.

The “bantha” looks terrible.
They must think bantha is just a generic term for any pack animal because the one in this issue looks like a hippo with curly horns.

And Han Solo actually says “Sunday School”.
Another example of them having no idea how to write within the context of this universe.
It’s really jarring and makes it hard to stay in the story, what little there is.

What did you think of the “High Galactic” language they invented for this issue?

ThatScoobyDoom: I’ve only flipped through it, but I don’t think they are either.
Weird indeed.

That Bantha looks like that a less hairy Nerf without the top horns or, based on the feet, a furry Reek without the nose horn, or maybe a combo of both.

I found Han’s knowledge of any religion to be kind of weird given his reaction to the “religion” of the Force.
The way he was all “fuck that force nonsense” to Luke and Obi-Wan but here he’s all respectful is really two-faced.
And I’m honestly surprised he didn’t call it space sunday school.

It sure as shit ain’t no Mando, that’s for sure.
But I would be interested in learning more of it, though given how this issue is going I doubt they put much or any effort into making an actual language.

Again, for those not reading along, Han and Chewie have decided to land on another shithole planet to lay low for a while and make some credits when they run into a group of locals trying to beat some smarts into a Holy man for trying to taint (teehee) their local graveyard with a cyborg body.
What do you think of all that, basically turning Han and Chewie into local problem solvers?

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@Fitzman73: I didn’t have a problem with that really.
Aside from being all reverent of this guy because he’s wearing priestly robes, and talking about attending space Sunday school, which is WAY out of character, I felt like the whole “oh you’re going to pay me? Sure I’ll haul this guy to the spacer graveyard and kill anyone that gets in my way, no problem” to be perfectly in line with his mercenary ways.

Plus, they have to have them doing something, I guess this is as good as anything.
As you’ll see as the series goes on they very rarely (if memory serves) interact with the Empire.
At least not for a long time.
Their antagonists a mainly cheezy villains of the week made up for the comics.
I’m sure that had a lot to do with restrictions placed on them by Lucasfilm.

I did like the introduction of cyborgs to the SW universe in this issue though.
This is the first time we see something that ends up being a big part of the Star Wars saga in later films.
I also thought it was funny they call them “Borgs”, all I could think of was Star Trek.

Oh and before I forget, page 128 top panel, I think Dr. Zoidberg is in the crowd shot.

ThatScoobyDoom: But before payment is even discussed?
He was ready to jump in and help, didn’t Han say he only looks out for himself or do you think he made an exception for the holy man (insert Eddie Murphy joke here)?

True, but I think the story could have been structured in a way that made it seem like there was money to be made before Han just jumps to his defense.
I’m sure Lucasfilm told them to steer clear of using the empire too much but to go nuts since it’s not going to be official anyway.

I kept thinking of Patrick Stewart myself.

As long ago as this is?
It’s more likely to be Uncle Harold Zoid…yeah!!!
I have a long futurama dick too, son!
Lol, good eye.

@Fitzman73: You have a point, the jumping in to defend someone just to be a swell guy isn’t really his nature at this point, but he did just save Luke’s bacon and by extension the entire rebellion so it might be (and I in NO WAY think Roy Thomas gave it this much thought or any for that matter) the start of the new Han, the Han who would stay with the rebels at the expense of a price on his head or the Han who would volunteer to blow up a shield generator.
Maybe this is him easing into his new role of “hero”.

Or maybe it’s just lazy paint by numbers writing?
Sorry, it’s hard to not be an apologist.

ThatScoobyDoom: Well, one could argue that he saved Luke to make sure he earned his reward.
That cracker barrel cheese ain’t cheap after all, but that is a good point.
Could be the first step of his transformation.

So after Han, Chewie, and the Space Bible Thumper bury the collective Han and Chewie head to the local watering hole for cause they want too.
Han buys a round for the house, spots a blue lady who quickly disappears.
What do you make of that seeming waste of panels?

@Fitzman73: First off what the hell is up with lady’s fashion in this place?
Wow.
It’s like the 60s had diarrhea all over them.

The only explanation I have for this pointless epilogue is that it brings in those weird Asian peasant looking dudes that offer Han and Chewie a job with possibly the worst sales pitch ever.

That chick he was about to score with was where I thought he was going to get tranny tricked.
That subtext is all OVER their conversation.
And then she just disappeared when the farmers show up?
Huh?
Part of me thinks the implication was that she magically turned into those 3 guys, like they were disguised or something.

ThatScoobyDoom: At least The Jetsons had an excuse, right?

I knew that’s where the tranny trick was going.
I never thought of that, but it’s not like they give you a clue either.
There’s nothing to hint at that, not the same colored clothes, hair styles, even a little logo to tip ya off.
I like that theory though cause it gives it some point!
A real non-sequitur.
My biggest question would be, didn’t he have his hand around her waist?
Did he not feel her disappear?

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It’s all just strange.
Without reading the other 3 issues of this arc, it feels like they may have planned a 5 or 6 issue arc then the editor came in and told them it could only run for 4.
There’s just so much that feels like it was supposed to breath but they were forced to expedite it for some reason.

@Fitzman73: You pretty much nailed it.
I think this was intended to just get Han and Chewie off Yavin and split the heroes up so that the next few issues could happen.
Once we get into those you’ll definitely look back on this one and be even more puzzled as to what the point was because from what I remember it has absolutely no bearing on what happens next.

ThatScoobyDoom: Well, what’s the verdict on this issue?
I think it would be far better if it was a bit smoother and wasn’t so many events jammed into so little space.
Too much shit going on, the pace is too breakneck.

@Fitzman73: They say you can’t polish a turd.
However.
I think you might if it’s been left in the sun for 30 years and allowed to dry out and harden.

That’s what this issue is.
A 30 year old sun baked pile of dog shit.

But it’s not without its charm.
It’s a classic example of really bad 70s comic book garbage of which there was plenty.
It’s not at all Star Wars as we know it, but it’s a fascinating little snapshot of what people (especially middle age white dudes) *thought* Star Wars was supposed to be the time.
It’s the first “original” comic story in the SW universe, and it’s obvious from page 2 that George Lucas was the only one on the planet at the time that knew how to tell a Star Wars story.

ThatScoobyDoom: I not even sure what to say about that dried dog turd comment…my dog’s shit disintegrates so at least this has staying power of a sort. Lol

That’s the thing, with a little understanding of the verse, this could be a great issue.
It has all of the elements to be a great story…but it squanders them on dumb pointless bullshit that is more confusing than anything.

Issue 8 cover, thoughts?

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@Fitzman73: Issue 8’s cover.
You know, despite Chewbacca’s typically fucked up appearance and Han looking more like Reed Richards than Harrison Ford, it’s not that bad.

It’s got a classic Marvel look to it with all the main players from the issue in kind of a battle pose.
Switch out the characters and this could be an Avengers cover.
And hey, holy shit, the cover is an actual representation of what’s going to happen in the issue.

ThatScoobyDoom: Apologies if I’ve made this joke already, but is talking about how goofy Chewbacca looks like putting your hand on a midgets head, watching him swing wildly, and kicking him in the nuts?
It feels like picking on the slow kid at this point, at least in the cases that Chaykin does the art, which I’m just guessing he did this cover.

Yeah, and that makes me like it more.
Ooo, does it finally advertise this actual issue?
I may cream my fuckin’ wheat!

@Fitzman73: It’s weird too because he looks all fucked up on the cover, but in the issue itself he looks awesome.
He actually, FINALLY, looks like Chewbacca to me.
At least in the panels that I read last night.

I think the addition of an “embellisher” to the team on this issue really makes a difference in the art quality.
I think normally that’s just another term for “inker” but there’s such a drastic shift in style of the drawings I can’t imagine he didn’t rework some of Chaykin’s rough art before inking it.
It just does not look in any way like Howard Chaykin drew these pages alone.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’m trying to think of what he looks like on this cover but it’s hard, those blue and black eyes are fucked.
It looks like Chewie’s cousin…that wears the same bandolero or whatever the hell it’s called.

So, kinda like when the second artist or whatever was brought into the 1st 6 issues?

@Fitzman73: Yeah.
Like it doesn’t look anything like the previous issue.
It’s bizarre.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, I just read it.
Not only was the art better, the story is 1000X better too.
And those old offensive Asian dudes are now carbon copies of Tatooine farmers.

@Fitzman73: I was going to bring that up immediately.
The lack of continuity between the last issue and this one is incredible.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen anything like it.

Not only is the blue girl gone and never to be seen again, the 3 Asian dudes are now 1 single Luke Skywalker clone.

You know why the story is 1000x bettrr in this issue?
Becasue they recycled the same story that’s been told a thousand times before and just plugged in Han Solo and a bunch of random weirdos.

That’s my main problem with this arc, and it’s totally my own bias, but I’m immediately turned off any time I read or watch something that is just a repackaging of Seven Samurai.
They did the same thing in an episode of Clone Wars, but a lot subtler.
I actually really enjoyed that episode because it wasn’t such a heavy handed, literal retelling of the same story.
But this?
This is a classic case of “I’m already out of ideas”.

ThatScoobyDoom: But they did mention the blue girl.
The craggy faced dude that attacked Han right after the Asian, turned Luke, dudes (who after the first 3 pages, the other 2 disappear) turned up on page one says that Blue is his girl.
After that (at least for issue 2) is never mentioned.

It is a classic story, but if it’s done decently it can work.
I’ve never read or watched or whatever any interpretation of the original story, just the retellings with characters it like.
Mostly cause I’m the uncultured slob you mentioned earlier.

As you’ll recall, I mentioned that Clone Wars ep earlier.
That was a great episode for a multitude of reasons, one of which because it was the return of Hondo.

What do you think of this Napoleonic jackass villian…whose name mesa can’t remember at the moment?

@Fitzman73: When I saw the picture of that dude, The Arrogant One, I was like holy shit.
But the second thought I has was, have you ever read the Brian Daley Han Solo trilogy from the 70s?
There’s a recurring villain that’s constantly trying to have a duel with Han, he’s a “gunslinger” named Gallandro.
This guy is what imagine Gallandro looked like.
But then eventually he speaks and it’s like oh he’s just a straight Eli Wallach/Magnificent Seven ripoff.

I highly encourage everyone to check out some Kurosawa films.
Especially for Star Wars fans, The Hidden Fortress.

Anyway, back to this issue.
One somewhat inspired piece of creativity is they give us our first look at speeder bikes/swoops in the Star Wars universe here.
(Note: I’m not counting the Ep4 Special Edition that includes a swoop nearly crashing into a Ronto in Mos Eisley, that was added 20 years after this comic book was published)

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I enjoyed the bar fight.
I liked how Han kept waiting for his muscle (Chewie) to save him except Chewie was off getting his jimmy waxed by the two bar flies from the last issue.
He does eventually show up and beats the shit out of that green wart faced dude.

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ThatScoobyDoom: You’ve told me about those books before, I have them but I haven’t read them yet because I’m reading in order (as best as I can given lack of funds to fill in a few PT/OR gaps).
I’m on Medstar II right now so those are about 10 books away.
I’ll get to them in 2016 or 2017.

This dude just looks too goofy and flashy/colorful for this era of Star Wars.
Given his look, I think he’d fit in the PT as a Senator.

I’ve just never heard anything about that type of stuff that peaked my interest, everybody just says it’s good.

I hadn’t noticed that, interesting.
Good eye!

That whole page with Chewie finally showing up is great!
Panel 5 is a perfect image of him, the best we’ve seen up to this point!
The very next panel made me legit lol, Chewie throwing herpies face out the window.
Genius!

Then we get the poor farmer saying he needs protection from Solo, because our “big bad” Serji-X Arrogantus aka The Arrogant One.
Which leads us too our hero auditions, or Galactic Idol.
What did you think of the hero try-outs?

@Fitzman73: You mean besides the obvious question of why the hell does Han do the interviews shirtless?
Or the fact that everyone that applies gets hired?
Even the hackiest of hack characters Don-Wan Kihotay the delusional “Jedi”?
It’s not bad enough they had to ape Seven Samurai they had to throw Man of Lamancha in there too.

ThatScoobyDoom: I was gonna get to the shirtlessness…which is…beyond strange…but I was just wondering if you liked it.
Be fair, Han says they saw 10 Spacers already they were all inept.

Jesus, you are a cultured motherfucker.
I mean, I’ve heard of this shit but I couldn’t have nailed down where it’s from. Settle down Mr. College!
What do you think of this so called Jedi?
I know nothing of him beyond this intro but something makes me doubt he’s a real Jedi.

What do you think of this cavalcade of wacky bastards, including a ratfaced teddy bear/porcupine, the cat-eyed lady from Han’s past, yet another Luke clown and his wisecracking droid…and I leaving anybody else out?
No, that must be them all…oh, wasn’t there a pissed off bunny wabbit or something?

@Fitzman73: Yeah I loved it, shirtless Han was hot.
Beefcake.

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I can’t remember for sure but I don’t think that guy is a real Jedi.
I think he’s just nuts.
I never connected the two but in the old West End Star Wars role playing game they had a character class that you could be called “Quixotic Jedi”.
Basically a guy that’s just a little force sensitive and goes around pretending he’s a Jedi.
I’ll bet this comic book was the inspiration for that.
Hard for me to believe this comic book at that game that I played extensively were only 10 years apart.

They really went all out on that whacky characters.
Jaxxon the space bunny is by far the most remembered and talked about thing to come from this comic series.
He’s not that out of place really except he talks like 1920s gangster.
And much to my disappointment they predictably mention Space Carrots.

Fun fact, the skeleton of one of these space rabbits makes a cameo in the background of a Clone Wars episode.
Chronologically it couldn’t be Jaxxon himself but it was definitely one of these rabbits.

ThatScoobyDoom: Talk about awkward though, do they think that Han doing shirtless interviews is…intimidating?
Cause I couldn’t take the shirtless dude with the big furry seriously.

He sounds nuts, I wanna know how this dude got that Saber.
Doubtful it’ll ever get explained though.

Where do you fall on Jaxx?
You’ve said in the past he was one of the most controversial characters in Star Wars history.

Wait, so these bunnies are actually canon???

@Fitzman73: Apparently yes they are.

I’m ok with Jax.
He’s silly in the comics but judging by some of the character designs that would show up in the prequels was he really outlandish?
The big problem I have is how they constantly reference rabbits or things that rabbits do or whatever the fuck.
There’s no evidence that rabbits exist within the universe so he should only look like a rabbit to us, to the characters in universe he should just be another alien species.

ThatScoobyDoom: See, that’s a great point.
Given the prequels gave us some weird shit, why is he such a touchy issue?
I think the reason why has to be because he’s so real world.
Everything in the prequels is like real world but put through an alien filter.
Jax is just green Bugs Bunny in a space suit.
Jar Jar is very similar, in a way, but he’s a giant platypus/fish/lizard/frog, you can’t look at him and find one clear creature from our world to draw a direct line too.

But in all actuality he fits in the universe perfectly, specifically the OT.
The OT had many creatures from our world that were basically just anthropomorphized.
Examples being Bothans (which are descendants of felines), Chadra-Fans (which are rodent-like and look like bats), Hutts (slugs), Klatooinians (giant bulldogs), Nelvaans (giant wolves), Shistavanens (more giant wolves), and most famously Gamorreans & Ugnaughts (both pigs).

For the record, I think Jaxxon is fuckin’ awesome!

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@Fitzman73: I agree, he’s at least stylistically interesting unlike the other aliens they’ve put in these comics so far.

Did your ears perk up when that farm boy called himself The Starkiller Kid?

ThatScoobyDoom: Totally!
The other folks are either humans, deformed humans, or some attempt to be exotic.
My only critque would be to tone down the bright red jump suit.

They did!
They love that name in Star Wars.

Fun fact: When I played Star Wars: Battlefront II (which you’ll recall was my first real Star Wars experiance) my save data name/call sign was Killstar-1.

So next in the story, Han has assembled his motley crew, Jax the Rabbit has dispatched the pimple faced demon.
While talking to The StarKiller Kid, Han begins to wonder how Luke is doing.
Cut to Luke prepping to take off insearch of a new place to set up a Rebel base.

What do you think of that transition and development?

@Fitzman73: Oof.
That transition was ham fisted.
And weird too that they would cut away for like 8 panels and then go back to Han.

ThatScoobyDoom: My thoughts exactly.
I guess that they figured folks would be so worried about Luke they’d better at least check in on him to feed that interest.
I found it telling that the first arc was like “fuck the star, lets follow the cowboy…wait, space cowboy!”.

@Fitzman73: Yeah I guess they were like hey we just spent 6 issues focused on this kid, let’s do a pirate story!

ThatScoobyDoom: And I think it works, at least for this issue.

So after Luke recaps the movie, he hamfistedly sends us back to Han…eho is still shirtlessly interviewing!
The next day Han and the group of goofnuts head out for band practice and ol herpy face shows up with arrogant prick to dick wave at Han and Co.

What do you think of that?
Comes off a bit too mustache twirly for me.

@Fitzman73: Well he does have the mustache for it.

I actually did like that the guy that tipped him off to Han’s team of expendables was the warty face dude they’ve had beef with all issue.
That was at least some kind of payoff

ThatScoobyDoom: I know he does, that’s what makes it worse.

Me too, makes sense and makes the shit with him earlier mean something.
Doesn’t feel like a waste of pages/panels like alot of Issue 7 did.

Ready to head into Issue 9?

@Fitzman73: And leave this masterpiece behind?
Um.
Yes please.
It can only get better, right?
Right?

ThatScoobyDoom: Hey, after 7, 8 was a masterwork!
Art was way better, story was better in every way, pacing, humor, pay-offs.
…but I fear it shall go down hill…

@Fitzman73: Well, let’s get to it.

Cover?

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ThatScoobyDoom: A bit misleading, sorta like the last was, looks like the battle is in space.
Jax looks fucked up for damn sure.
Han’s left blast is just aimlessly firing.

Decent enough, what do you think?

@Fitzman73: It’s ok.
Again it’s a very 70s Marvel cover.
It’s fascinating to me how you can just look at Marvel comics (and maybe comics in general) and just know what decade they were produced in inspecting nothing more than the way the shot is composed and the color palette.

I was going to point out the star field background.
If they’d gone with a normal sky it would’ve been a pretty accurate advertisement for what’s inside, kinda.
But again they have to remind people that this shit is happening IN SPACE!!!

The text above the logo says “At Last! Beyond the Movie! Beyond the Galaxy!” What the fuck does that even mean?
Beyond the galaxy?
Beyond OUR galaxy?
Well no shit it’s a galaxy far far away just like the movie.
Or do they mean beyond the galaxy in the movie even?
And if so, who are they shitting?
They didn’t go through a wormhole in issue 7.

ThatScoobyDoom: I think it goes back to the conversation we had during the first arc, the trippy goofballs conversation.
Shit was bolder back then, gutsy, ballsy.
They took chances and did weird shit that eventually became the style for the decades they were done in.
Maybe it’s just me, but everything for the last 15 years or so has been pretty cookie cutter with no real groundbreaking chances taken.

Except for the speeder riders being different than the ones in the iss, it would be.
Yeah, they really wanna drive that home…sorry, space home.

Ya know, I didn’t even pay attention to that on the last 2.
That is a bit of a head scratcher.
If I can borrow your apologist role for a moment, maybe it means “beyond the galaxy…you know!”?
Makes sense…but not clear.

BTW, just a quick reminder, this is set in space…don’t want anybody to forget that little known fact.
Star Wars is set in space.
All clear?
Okay…they’ll remind us again in a few pages though just in case we forget.

@Fitzman73: On the cover Han tells Chewie to keep shooting, yet he’s not even in the frame is he?

ThatScoobyDoom: I think that weird looking being with the Creature From The Black Lagoon face on the far left might be Chewie.

What do you think of Jax’s Doom prediction?
Seems a bit grim for the long ear.

@Fitzman73: Yeah I thought that too but he’s really spikey so I thought maybe it was the porcupine dude.

Grim yes.
But this is an adventure beyond the galaxy bro, shit is going to get real.

ThatScoobyDoom: I did too, but given the color I argued with myself that it must be chewie.
Another fault in coloring with these.

Lol!

So whatcha think of the insidy parts?

@Fitzman73: The art looks more like the Chaykin art we’ve seen.
Like last issue was an anomoly or something.
Did you think that too?

ThatScoobyDoom: Yes!
I think with this issue, more than any other, you can tell who did what.
That opening page (153) is clearly not Chaykin.
Chewie looks perfect, almost the print version of rotoscoped.
The Banthas are totally different…they’re actually Banthas now!

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Page 154 is great too…then it goes downhill fast.
Han takes a turn and starts looking…tranny-esque is they only way to describe it.
Look at the bottom of 159, he looks like a middle-age lady in a wig.

There are spots of good that can only be attributed to Palmer, I’ll mention more of it later when we get into the story.

@Fitzman73: Good point.
I forgot they have him listed as co penciller now, so you’re right I’ll bet just like the prior issue, he went in and made things look like they should.
That’s gotta be why.
Because yeah the banthas look like banthas.

I didn’t check but I’m wondering if the inker changed?
Like was it the same guy doing the last issue because prior to that I thought the lines were really thick, and with this issue we’re back to heavy ink.

ThatScoobyDoom: It’s really strange too.
Back in the day when you had to wait 30 days to read the next issue it was probably hardly noticeable, but now it sticks out like a dogs red thing.

Issue 7 was Embellished by Frank Springer and Colored by Carl Gafford.
Issue 8 was Embellished and Colored by Palmer.
Issue 9 was Co-Illustrated and Colored by Palmer.
What’s the difference between Inker, Colorist, and Embellisher?

@Fitzman73: Well, inker and embellisher are kinda the same thing.
Colorist adds the color, obviously.
My guess is that on issue 8, Palmer actually did some of the illustrating too but didn’t get a credit until issue 9.
I’ll bet on issue 9 they both inked thier own work which is why there’s no credit for inker.

ThatScoobyDoom: And that probably explains why the differences are so big from page too page.
Not sure how many pix I’ll be able to post with this but it has really no sense of continuity, you can tell 2 people did it with contrasting styles.

Incase I didn’t mention it, that opening page is awesome!

Lets get into the story, what do you think of the start as our great protectors head to the farm to prep for battle?

@Fitzman73: This felt a lot like filler to me.
But those scavenger “birds” they had to fight were straight up nightmarish.
They had human faces!
This also gave Han a chance to save a girl who turns out as luck would have it is the daughter of a big shot in the village they’re going to protect.
Brownie points.

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ThatScoobyDoom: Yep, totally agree.
For me, last issue was pretty great but this shit got boring again real quick.
This arc is really losing my interest, and it even has green Bugs Bunny going for it.

Like a slightly mutated version of The Vulture, seems Marvel was stealing from themselves there.

How it she so young, bright eyed, & nubile yet her Dad is so old, crusty, & frail?
Wouldn’t he be wisping (I can’t really say shooting, can I?) dust at that point?
Dude looks older that Yoda’s frail wrankled ass!

Whatchu think of the Luke/Leia interlude this go round?

@Fitzman73: Yeah what’s up with those villagers in general?
They went from Kung Fu Theater extras to Tatooine farmers to now some kind of South American indian tribe or something.
They’ve literally been drawn 3 completely different ways so far.

I guess life is tough for these guys maybe he’s only 45. Lol.
I did find it amusing that Han was gonna try and break off a piece of that until he found out who her dad was and it turned into an awkward “well nice meeting you young lady”.

I thought the Luke/Leia interlude worked a lot better this time.
The only thing I had a slight issue with was the fact that Luke is flying the blockade runner by himself?
That’s not a single person vehicle.
It’s an odd choice to send him in, but I guess they didn’t have anything else?
And I guess spaceships are like cars?
As long as you know how to operate one you know how to operate any?

ThatScoobyDoom: Exactly!
Again, there is no sense of continuity what so ever in the art here!
If you have bad comprehension you’d totally be screwed because shit changes not only by the book but by the page!
It’s nuts!

If he’s 45 I’ll eat my toe jam!
That dude is eleventy at the least.
He did everything but palm her face and push her away. Lol

Definetly not as kitschy this time, but the writing/omniscient narration felt a little haughty to me.
“For us, however, the exigencies of time and space do not exist. Thus, let us skip lightly across the void of space…”
Dude thinks he’s Shakespeare or something.
That was something I wanted to ask, that’s the same type of ship that Bail has in III and Leia has at the start of IV, right?
That would take more that a fresh faced farm boy, an Astromech, and a Protocol droid to fly, no?

@Fitzman73: I would think so.
I mean I don’t think we ever see the cockpit of that ship (and it is the same ship in 3 and 4) but I would think there’d at least be 2 pilots and a navigator?
I don’t know.
Plus don’t they need any kind of crew or military personnel on board or anything?

That narration is classic 70s Marvel.
They did that kind of story recap in all those old book and it drives me nuts.
And that overly literary writing style is a staple of the times too.

ThatScoobyDoom: Well, I think for this they didn’t wanna risk the people, they just want to find a new base.
But this isn’t even a skeleton crew, even the damn Ebon Hawk needed a few crew members to make it fly.
What happens if the engine or hyperdrive fails?
Is Luke, all in his own little onesy, able to handle that?
He never showed the mechanical expertise that Anakin had, I’d say no.
This isn’t one that I feel they can hide behind the excuse of “undefined Star Wars”.

I can understand why, it’s sort of acceptable in prose, but once you introduce a visual it gets pretty lameass pretty quick.

@Fitzman73: Yeah all that prose really wasted and does feel forced and lame.
A little is fine but don’t try to sound like Dickens or some epic literary masterpiece it just doesn’t fit.

And as we’ll see in the coming issues he is on his own with just the droids for backup and he’s really going to wish he had a squad of commandos with him.

I like that we get to see Leia’s inner conflict of being expected to be a leader and not a fighter wanting to be out there as one of the boys kicking ass and after his transmission is cut off saying fuck it I’m going to find him.

ThatScoobyDoom: Exactly.
Save that shit for the recaps at the start, not for the body of the issue.

Does shit get that bad for Sky Guy Jr?

And didn’t that one dude basically tell her “don’t worry about it, not your concern.” just before she left?

@Fitzman73: Well, they don’t get Death Star escape bad but they’re not great.

Yeah they try to keep her all safe and ladylike and she’s like fuck that, later pussies.

ThatScoobyDoom: But all things considered, 1 against 100 type shit?

At this point we’re lead to believe it’s because she loves Luke, based solely on the movie issues.
Do you find it weird, knowing what we know now, that she doesn’t seem to give 2 shits about Han?
In those first 6 they really made it seem like a love triangle but there’s none of that here.

@Fitzman73: They really did go for the Luke/Leia romance and left Han to twist.
The same thing happens in Splinter of the Mind’s Eye, along with a bunch of other sacrilegious way off base action.
They had no idea where the story would be going, and everyone just assumed it was Luke/Leia.
It’s definitely creepy when you read this stuff after all the facts have been presented.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, it is.
But I can put that aside and understand it.
Considering the time, the stranger thing to me is to just drop Han as an interest for her and have her just go full steam ahead for Luke.

Think about it, who’s really in more danger?
The unknown farm boy in the Rebel vehicle or the smuggler who has a debt with a ruthless gangster?
Sure, the farm boy is under threat from the galaxy but he could play dumb and claim he stole the Rebel ship.
Han is on his own (with Chewie) against a dude with connections to fuck his shit up.

@Fitzman73: Yeah but Leia doesn’t know at this point that Han’s in trouble.
Last she saw he was flying off with a cargo hold full of “treasure” as Roy Thomas insisted on calling it and was presumably a quick hop away from clearing things up with Jabba.

Luke on the other hand, she knows he’s in trouble and not only that the future survival of the Rebel Alliance hangs in the balance.
If he fails at his mission or is killed who knows if they have enough time to send out another scouting party and get off Yavin before Vader comes back and goes all Hoth on them.

ThatScoobyDoom: Fair points both.

So after Leia heads out to help that son of the maker, all hell breaks loose as The Arrogant One shows up to screw with the farmers.
Threatening to take the hotzi totzi farmers daughter, Merri, which Han takes umbridge too as he wants her for himself.
As the baddies ride in, Jax makes more bunny mentions.

What do you think of all that?

@Fitzman73: It was actually a surprisingly fun battle.
I wasn’t expecting them to take losses so soon though.
I forgot Don Wan takes a dirt nap already.
So much for those Jedi skills.

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ThatScoobyDoom: And fast paced.
I guess that answers my question about that, huh.
Were you disappointed to see the robut go?

Then old guy shows his O-Face and he unleashes his Behemoth in a large splash page

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@Fitzman73: I was actually.
That was pretty ham fisted too, “I don’t know why but I have to a blaster bolt for that kid that treats me like property”.

Yes!
What did you think of that twist at the end?
I think that’s the first time we get a surprise ending along with the “to be continued”.
I liked it, I thought that part worked really well.

ThatScoobyDoom: I like that little bot almost as much as I like Jax.
I like the near sentient Droids in Star Wars so much more for some reason, maybe because it’s not how it’s supposed to be.

When Jax says the old guy needs to get out of the way or he’ll get killed and they cut to gramps in a trance I thought it would be lame as shit.
Then you see that critter burst forth from the ground.
It was perfect!
For the first time in this damn arc I really wanted to see what happened next.

Strange because I started out hating this issue.

@Fitzman73: Right me too, as soon as he started talking about their protector though I remembered what was going to happen and that the 7 Samurai story line was about to be nuked.

ThatScoobyDoom: Does that improve the arc for you?

It’s definetly one hell of a cliffhanger.
That critter looks cool here, but it looks even better in the renderings in the next issue.

@Fitzman73: Yeah definitely.
For me it totally saves this story and sends it in a different direction.

ThatScoobyDoom: Anything more to say about this issue before we start to bring this thang in for a proper landing?

@Fitzman73: Not really, I’m curious to see how this turns out.
I read this maybe 2 years ago but I have no clue what’s going to happen.

ThatScoobyDoom: Welcome to my world, sir.

Issue 10 cover, go!

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@Fitzman73: Cover.
Issue 10.
STOP!
Just.
STOP.

This may be one of the worst covers I’ve ever seen.

Han looks like Willem Dafoe on crank, Chewie’s bowcaster arms are bent, the monster looks like they traced a photo of an iguana, and they’re, AGAIN, in the vaccuum of space with apparently no atmosphere?

In a comic series whose covers have been infamously bad so far this one plumbs new depths.
It’s a huge step backward.

ThatScoobyDoom: I wouldn’t be that hard on it.

If not for the battle taking place in the stars…again (*facepalm*) …it wouldn’t be to bad of a representation of what’s inside…even though everybody and everything is WAY off model.

And on the literal space battles front, in future issues that actually happens!
Ooofah!

I’d say it looks more like a green turd with claws and a head fin.

I didn’t notice the “bowcaster” til you mentioned it, I think it’s unfair to even call it a bowcaster.
Looks like a blaster with 2 static electric balls on it.

Also, how many goddamn times is Han gonna say “keep firing”?
Talk about one note…

@Fitzman73: Like no shit dude was he NOT firing still?
Why does he need to keep ordering people to keep firing?
If they stop it means their ass for sure so why does he have to micro manage like that?

So, big spoilers, huge surprise on the second page.
Have you seen it yet?

ThatScoobyDoom: Fuckin’ A!
I can imagine a Robot Chicken-esque sketch about that scenario.
“Han: KEEP FIRING OR WE’RE ALL IN TROUBLE!
*shoulders sag in defeat*
Chewie: Do you ever stop and think about how hurtful that is? Assuming I’m too dumb to return fire. It’s just…I don’t think you respect me anymore, Han.” Hehehe

I didn’t read it yet…but I peeked.
Art first, Fitz!
Gotta tease these kids.

@Fitzman73: The interior art is pretty much the same as it’s been.
You’ve still got the dueling pencillers going on with Chaykin and Palmer so some pages are better than others.
I did like the design of the monster.
He looks way better than on the cover for sure.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, like I said before, the creature looks like a fin headed turd on the cover but totally different on the inside.
Looks totally different from the final page of the last issue too.
Once again, not alot of consistancy from these yayhoos.

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This is Chaykin and Palmer’s swan song also, at least for the next 36 issues.
Palmer came back as Inker on 46, left, then came back as Co-Artist on 49 & 50, then back to Inker after that for a while, then he flip flopped back and forth.
As far as I can see, Chaykin didn’t come back and I can’t say I’ll miss him.

Now, there are some highlights in this issue.
The 2 monster splash pages immediately jump too mind for me.
Anything like that for you?

@Fitzman73: I was going to mention that, that the next issue not only starts a new arc but there’s wholesale player change in the creative department.
Carmine Infantino takes over pencils and Archie Goodwin takes over writing from Roy Thomas.
The art for sure gets a HUGE upgrade.
Infantino’s style is way cleaner and in my opinion aesthetically pleasing.

But that’s for another day, sadly. Ha ha.

Those splash pages are the highlight.
I really liked the one on the first page that’s a wide shot of the whole area with the monster in the center.
There’s a lot of dimensions in it, you’ve got good guys in the foreground, the monster farther off in the background, and the raiders’ rocket cycles circling in the midground.

The only other panel that stuck out for me was the shot of Leia’s starship flying through space.
I really like the look of this image.
The ship design is very similar to a ship that shows up in the original Battlestar Galactica.

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ThatScoobyDoom: Real quick I just wanna say that I love the way he draws Leia.

Totally, to see such depth is a great change of pace.
Rather refreshing given the wonky quality we’ve gotten used to.

That shit is interesting, if you flip the book it kinda looks like a body to me.
Leia looks really pretty in those panels too.

Story, you dig it?

@Fitzman73: Story was ok, I thought the final solution to defeat the monster was kinda hokey, but the pulled a nice surprise by magically bringing back a character we thought had become one with the Force last issue so that made the fight more interesting.

You want to do the big reveal?
What did you think of his return and do you buy the reasoning behind his survival?

ThatScoobyDoom: It was strange to say the least.
This issue took it from a Western to a Godzilla movie and the end flipped it into an episode of the original Power Rangers.
Again strange.
Felt like the just ran out of pages and said “to hell with it, the monster is dead now” and printed it.

Brave Sir Cadagon returned, or rather, Don-Wan Kihotay rose from his overacted grave.
I went to back look at his “death” in the previous issue and noticed him holding a lance in the first panel like he was prepped for a joust.
Oy vey!

Do I buy his survival or reasoning?
HEEEEELLLLLLLL NO!
I’m with what you said about him being a real Jedi, he’s a big fat phony!
That was a death scream!

And as far as big reveal, to me it almost felt like they were saying to the readers “of course he’s not dead you retards” because look at how he’s revealed to be alive.
On page 172 of your omnibus, last panel, he’s standing there behind Han’s old girlfriend, lady hot shorts.
Then his first conversation in this issue is basically
(note dear readers this isn’t quoted)
DWQ: This armor saved me from the blast but I doubt it’ll save me from the beast.
Han: shut up and hide.
No “HOLY SPACE SHIT, DON WAN!!! YOU’RE ALIVE!!!” Just “then hide behind the rocks”.
It felt like a Duh moment.
I would have prefered he stayed dead and Han grabbed his saber.

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What do you think of the beast shooting fricken laser beams from it’s horny head?

@Fitzman73: Exactly.
I questioned my own sanity when I saw him in that panel.
For a split second I thought wait did we totally misread that last issue?
I actually went back and checked.
If stormtrooper armor doesn’t stop a direct blaster hit, no way does his plate mail, sorry SPACE plate mail.
I was actually hoping they’d just let it ride and not even bother explaining.
It would’ve been more forgivable in my opinion.

The laser was the next thing I was going to bring up.
I didn’t have a problem with it except it felt like a last minute addition because it’s just THERE.
No explanation, no structure or orrafice to come out of, it just comes out if its skin?

ThatScoobyDoom: Well, spinning out of that and trying to make it make sense (and no need to point it out, I know this is reaching), Stormtrooper armor is mass produced.
His space armor is special made for a *eye roll* Jedi, maybe it’s stronger because of that?
But I agree, had he just said it was just a flesh wound and they moved on it would have been much more palatable.

I think it shoots out of one of it’s horns, doesn’t it?
But even if it doesn’t, why the fuck is it there?
It feels like it’s just there to make it seem like as big a threat as the Death Star, which I don’t think was needed.
Increasing the threat just for the sake of increasing the threat makes it all weaker IMO.

@Fitzman73: Right it was already stomping the fuck out of everything and everybody, spoiler alert: squashed both The Arrogant One AND the crazy old shaman with one stomp.
I have to hand it to them.
That was a helluva way to resolve those plot points with single panel.

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I don’t know, it didn’t look like it was coming from anything to me but you’re right who cares it was dumb either way.
Didn’t make the connection with the Death Star, but you’re right it’s exactly like that.

As lame as that laser was, the method by which Han finally kills thing is almost as ridiculous.

ThatScoobyDoom: How many times have I (or we) said that it feels rushed?
Instead of figuring something out or saving them for potential future stories we get “um…um…um, fuck it squish ’em, we need to wrap this shit up! We go to print tomorrow!”

It’s like “here’s the threat…now Here’s The Threat…NOW HERE’S THE THREAT” they keep pushing it, ramping up the stakes and it gets laughable.
Just gets ridiculously absurd.

You mean Han’s trench run?
Go on, tell ’em how fuckin’ dumb it is.
Go on!

@Fitzman73: How many times?
I don’t know, how many issues have we done?

You mean the trench run where he uses Chewie as his x-wing?
Holy hell.
So basically he remembers hear about a jedi that once killed a monster like this using a lightsaber to short out the beast’s laser.
Problem is he’s not fast enough to get close to it before it fries him with said laser but guess who is?
Homeboy literal has Chewie pick him up under one arm and run him like a football up close to the monster so he can stab it and make it go kablooey.

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Oh and you’re right, he calls it the monster’s “fin beam” so I guess it’s supposed to just be coming off the thing’s head fin, which is not drawn clearly at all.

ThatScoobyDoom: Lol, 10?
4?
You decide!

Yeah, in some panels it looks like it’s shooting between the spikes from the skull.

That is incredibly stupid, but you know you’d have popped wood had they pulled a Colossus/Wolvie and done a Fastball Special instead!
Don Wan screams blasphamy as Solo snatches his lightsaber too!
And how the hell did Han hear about a Jedi killing a monster with a lightsaber, more importantly, why would he deny the power of the Jedi/The Force having heard such a tale?

So, he stabs the bastardized Barney, the monster goes apeshit crazy because of it, and the Dino disintergrates.

We have now way of knowing, but if I had money I’d bet that Palmer drew that first splash page of the Behemoth and Chaykin drew this zappy disintergration.

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@Fitzman73: That’s a pretty good bet.

Exactly.
He literally JUST SAID in theaters he didn’t believe in Jedi nonsense so why would he believe a tall tale like that?
I guess desperate times call for desperate measures.

And then after all is said and done the Starkiller Kid gets the hot piece of ace farmer’s daughter and decides he’ll just stay and be a farmer now too.
So with that the arc comes full circle because SPOILERS that’s what happens at the end of Seven Samurai too.

ThatScoobyDoom: Fuck a theater, what about 7 issues ago???
Now, issue 3 was WRITTEN by Roy Thomas and here he’s listed as Co-Plotter with Chaykin while Don Glut is “Scriptwriter”.
Is this a case of too many cooks in the kitchen maybe?

Once again, can you say rushed and ham fisted?
Starkiller Kid: I’m gonna leave cause you won’t look at me.
Hot lady: I’m looking now.
SKK: You’ll touch it? I’LL STAY!!!
All that in 3 panels, are you fuckin’ shittin’ me?
I mean, way to have conviction you little turd!
She finally bats a lash his way and the little pricks is her’s for life?
Zzzzzzzzzzzz

So overall, how do you feel about this issue?

@Fitzman73: Way too many cooks.
This is an example maybe of the Marvel Method gone awry.
That old way of making comics may have given birth to some of the greatest stuff ever, but in the wrong hands it lays out some real zeros too.

Might also still be an example of the creators no clue what to do with this new white hot property and absolutely no time to figure it out.
They wanted to cash in while the movie was still huge, not realizing hey it’s not going anywhere.
They had to get these issues to print as fast as possible so it’s no wonder these early issues are fucking unbearable.

ThatScoobyDoom: No shit!
But it’s a monthy book, not bi-weekly, they needed to slow the fuck down a bit and let this shit breath or it turns out like this, rushed and wonky as hell.

This 4 issue arc, how do you feel about it as a whole?
Cause it’s been a rollercoaster for damn sure.

@Fitzman73: As a whole, the story is pretty formulaic and kind of boring, but it does take a couple of unexpected turns and there were definitely a few things I did like.
Mostly though it’s pretty cheezy.

ThatScoobyDoom: I would definetly have to agree, I think issue 2 was the peak for me and it kinda just slowly glided downhill in 3.
The pacing of 4 went off the deep end.

As you said before, you can really see how early in the saga this was and how little control George had, because it kinda goes off the rails of what is Star Wars fast out of the gate.

But I will say this, I love Jaxxon!
I’d love to see him on screen.

@Fitzman73: I think you could definitely do some cool shit with that character if you dirtied him up a little and made him just tad more alien and tad less exactly like green Bugs Bunny.
Oh, and totally drop all the references to bunnies, rabbits, carrots, hopping, etc.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yes!
Maybe even if you sort of reverse it a bit and make him look a little monsterous but make him a sweet heart.

Or just scar him up, make him a bit darker shade of green, lost the spacesuit, give him some armor.
He’s clearly tough, but he seems more like he’s overcompensating for his cute and fluffiness.

Back to the arc though, I think it’s be alot better to if they quit putting “Space” infront of everything that comes from reality to make it seem scifi.
It’s like Chinese food, we call it Chinese food but if you go to China it’s fuckin’ food!
If your in space this shit is normal, no need to qualify it.
It comes off extremely ridiculous.

@Fitzman73: It definitely does, we’ve said it before but man what a 60s/70s trope.

ThatScoobyDoom: I know we’ve said it before, but it needs to be repeated, FUCKIN’ STOP IT!!!

I guess we can Ol Yeller this one, unless you have anything else to say about this sad bastard.

@Fitzman73: Bang.

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If you want more of Fitz, you can follow him on twitter at http://Twitter.Com/Fitzman73
You’ve gotta go listen to his podcast Just Jump To The End (which you can also follow on twitter at http://Twitter.Com/JJ2End) that he does with his sister @Tacky1z, it’s available for download at http://jj2end.com.
I dig it so much I’ve done intros for them and have many more too come.
You can also listen to the Audio version of Typecast #9 from there.

Share this post on Twitter with the HashTag #Typecast.

And finally!
The world is a pretty shitty place, try to make it a little bit better by not being an dickhead and adding to the shit pile.
See ya next time.

Typecast #11: At The Movies With Fitzkel And Doombert

Hey hey, we’re back!
Fitz is here to close out our talk about the prequels, we go balls deep into Attack Of The Clones and Revenge Of The Sith and dissect he fuck out of them in what might well be the longest Typecast yet.

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As per usual, @Fitzman73‘s name appears in red and links to the podcast he does with his sister, Molly, Just Jump To The End.
Also, as is my norm, no editing (with one or two exceptions, based on technical issues I had that caused me to retype responses. I’ve edited together those posts and pointed them out as you’ll see) has been done just to maintain honesty.

Away we go!

ThatScoobyDoom: So Episode I has ended, the galaxy is in turmoil, did the promo blitz/hypefest for this little fuck we call Episode II start immediately or was there some downtime to let I marinate?

@Fitzman73: I think there was a considerable amount of downtime but as we’ve discussed before that’s really just because the internet was still developing.
You could get leaked info occasionally but it’s not like it is today where obtaining and leaking production details online is so common it’s a joke.
They might as well not even bother wasting time and energy keeping shit under wraps.
Usually by a month out from the whole script is available online and sometimes full bootlegs of rough cut video or even FULL copies of the final cut.

No back then there were a couple websites and Star Wars Insider magazine.
It was awhile before the first real news started coming in regarding episode 2, but the speculation began almost immediately.

The one rumor that I remember hearing from very early on and kept hearing it over and over as “confirmed” was that episode I ends with Boss Nass raising that sparkly ball thing during the celebration and shouting “Peace”, so epsiode II was going to open with Boss Nass slamming his fist down on a meeting table and shouting “WAR!”, because presumably the Clone Wars would start at the beginning of episode 2.

Of course now that rumor is ridiculously inaccurate and silly.
I don’t even think Boss Nass appears in a single frame of ep 2 does he?

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, and all these production leaks take some of the magic out of the whole shebang.
And don’t get me wrong, I look for that shit.
I look when I hear that there is an image of the Falcon captured by a drone.
I know I’m part of the problem, but if it’s there…it’s like if a hot chick starts stripping right in front of you, try NOT looking.

This is what?
2002?
Shit still wasn’t slipping out hardcore yet?

That is an interesting idea, kind of a loop of sorts, a flip of the coin.
Uh, I’m not 100% sure, but I think there may be 1 shot of Boss Nass in the senate building on Coruscant.
I could very well be completely wrong.
But I’m not sure, though I’ve seen this movie just as many times as the other 5, my memory of most of it is fuzzy at best.

@Fitzman73: Clones came out in 2002 so yeah by then there’d been a lot of official images released and early bird mail in figures (Zam Wessel for one), so the marketing machine was in full swing by 2002.

I think by 2001 they introduced that membership based service on the Official Site called Hyperspace.
Of course nobody I knew actually paid for it, but supposedly that’s where they revealed a lot of the early images and stuff.

ThatScoobyDoom: Mail in figures?
They don’t do that type of shit anymore, do they?
That’s kind of sad, I like the old school concept of that.

All I know about Hyperspace is that cool logo.
Why did you, of all people, not join up?

@Fitzman73: Mail ins were the best. The first one of course was the original Kenner Boba Fett.
I still remember the day it arrived. Then they did a mail in for Bossk and 4-LOM (actually the incorrectly labeled Zuckuss) for Empire.
Then for Jedi they did a mail in for the Emperor and later an old man Anakin in Jedi robes.

The only one of those I didn’t get via mail in was Anakin.
Although years later in high school I bought one loose at the first vintage store I ever found around here.
That’s an adventure for another time though.

For episode I they had a mail in Mace Windu and maybe a Battle Droid?
Seems like they did 2.

Episode 2 they had Zam Wessel and somebody else but I can’t remember, Obi Wan’s astromech I think?

The only one I remember for episode 3 was Captain Cody.

So yeah mail ins have been a thing with Kenner/Hasbro for a long time.
You don’t see it much these days but I can almost guarantee there will be one for episode 7.

I never subscribed to Hyperspace because A) it cost money that I didn’t have at the time really and B) I honestly felt a little betrayed by Lucasfilm.
I had already been an Insider subscriber for like 5 or 6 years at that point so I felt it was a little fucked up to make all this extra content only available through a paid service.
So even if I would’ve had the disposable income, I don’t think I would’ve paid for it anyway.

ThatScoobyDoom: Hold onto that Adventure as you called it, we may have time for it later.

I kinda hope so, so far they seem to have tried going against what George’s regime did, I know I’m mostly alone in thinking it might be a misstep.

When did the first trailer hit?
I wasn’t a fan at the time, but looking back I remember seeing a little bit about Phantom and alot about Sith, but this movie completely came and went without me hearing about it.

@Fitzman73: Yeah you know now that I’m really thinking about it, this one really didn’t make a huge splash.
I think the first Spider-Man came out right at the same time and it kind of stole episode 2’s thunder.

I recently watched the epsiode 2 trailer and woof it sucked.
It was kind of a dud for it being the first trailer.
I guess that was one of the first “teaser” trailers maybe?
I don’t remember having nearly the same orgasmic reaction to it as episode 1.

What I do remember is the first picture of Anakin in his black and brown Jedi outfit and immediately going oh shit that looks like old Luke concept costumes.
I thought he looked completely badass in the picture they released.
I think it was just the shot of him meditating outside of Padme’s room when they’re on guard duty, and it looked cool as shit.

ThatScoobyDoom: That’s exactly what happened, has to be.
Cause Spidey dropped the first weekend in May and this was like 2nd, right?
There were 4 Star Wars movies already, and this one is basically filler, put that up against Spider-Man’s first movie?
It didn’t stand a chance.

I have never really gone and watched any of the old trailers.
In a weird way, it seems pointless to me since I didn’t have any anticipation of them.
Totally different with the Ep VII trailer though, I watch it once a week.

It totally looks cool!

So as opening weekend approaches, what are you thinking?
Did they trailers have you all in?

@Fitzman73: The trailer really didn’t get me all in, I was all in from the second Ep1 ended.
Actually what got me the most jacked up was seeing the Fetts.
And seeing they didn’t cast white dudes, it was like whoa cool I wasn’t expecting that.
And the Jango armor all stainless steel and shit. I couldn’t wait.

I ended up taking my dad opening day like first showing.
It was rainy and dreary as shit.
We were supposed to go camping that weekend, I was already skipping it because it fell on opening weekend, but luckily it got rained out and my dad ended up not going and we got to see the movie together.
It was cool.
My first viewing of every Star Wars film has been in the theater with my dad except Episode I (we went together the second time I saw that one)

ThatScoobyDoom: So you guys sit down, fanfare, opening crawl, some shit happens, credits, what did you think of it?

@Fitzman73: I dug most of it.
I liked the mystery aspect of it.
I thought the idea of a clone army was cool.
My mind was blown that Boba Fett was essentially just a clone of Jango.
Which means THAT is what Boba Fett looks like in the OT under the helmet.
It was a game changer to have that much insight into the character all of a sudden.
I thought Christopher Lee was amazing.

And possibly most importantly, Yoda looked incredible.
This was the first CG Yoda (besides the real quick cg Yoda at the end of Ep 1).
A lot of people were freaking out when we heard they were going to try a CG Yoda.
Even I was like oh I don’t know, that just seems wrong.
But let’s face it that ep 1 Yoda puppet was an abortion and once you see the end of episode 2 you realize cg was really their only option.
The end fight was amazing.
Seeing it in the theater when Yoda hobbles in, everyone in the theater was like OH SHIT!
They’re gonna throw down!
And then you think it’s just all force lightening and stuff until Dooku whips out his saber.
When Yoda opened his robe and force pulled his lightsaber into his hand the whole theater gasped, no idea how this little dude was going to sword fight a 6’4 man.

The entire courtship subplot was awful.
Just not at all believable. Hayden’s performance was for the most part a disappointment.
They had absolutely NO chemistry.
That aspect of film was a big letdown.
Just not enough time to develop a plausible romance and as we’ve said before directing live actors is not GL’s forte.
This movie really needed someone like a Kershner to really infuse humanity and believability into their relationship.
He did an amazing job with Han and Leia in Empire, this film needed something similar.
Although Natalie Portman delivers her best line possibly of the whole trilogy in my opinion.
The “truly deeply love you” line is dog shit but right before that when she says she’s not afraid to die, gives me goosebumps the way she delivers it

And then there were the little things that really rubbed me wrong.
Like Obi Wan’s beard.
Especially in the “this lightsaber is your life” scene.
He looks straight up bizarre.
He always looks like Martin Short to me.

ThatScoobyDoom: The Obi-Wan/Fett mystery stuff aside, if it weren’t for the last 30-45 minutes of this movie (which is less than half) it would be a complete and utter piece of shit.
This movie is just so goddamn boring.
I rarely ever fall asleep during a movie, I’ve fallen asleep during this one no less than 3 times.
But the ending is so strong that it saves me from hating it.

What was it like to finally have a firm backstory for Boba Fett after 20+ years of speculation?
Because, like most things with the prequels, folks kinda shit in George’s mouth for it.

I never really understood the hoopla over PT Puppet Yoda until I saw pix of it again recently.
I think it would be fine if the Menace was set another 35 years before the Empire, they made him look far too young.
Yoda jumping around that chamber is shit your pants awesome and Christopher Lee’s booming voice is spectacular for a villain!
When I think of him I think of that one line “you disappoint me Skywalker”, that one line and his delivery of it is a masterstroke of an acting choice.
It’s dripping with contempt and condescension, but he also injects it with this feeling that makes it like that moment where Scar is playing with that mouse before Zazu shows up and distracts him.
He just has and ease about himself that is perfect for Dooku’s nobel roots.

Yeah, and she doesn’t come off like she actually loves him.
She comes off a bit like he’s forcing her into a relationship or like she’s indulging his crush, at least that’s how I saw it.
What was Hayden in before this that brought him to Lucas’s attention?
I’m not sure I remember what line you’re refering too.
I think I said this before, I’ve developed a bit of a mental block in regard to this film.
I think this one is the only one of the PT that deserves any and all of the shit that gets thrown at it.

His beard was overshadowed to me by his plastic helmet of hair. Lol

@Fitzman73: Yeah it’s definitely the worst of the trilogy without a close second.
But you’re absolutely right, if there’s one thing GL can do consistently it’s finish a movie strong.

Oh Anakin is a total date rapist creeper in this.
His little smirks and shit make my skin crawl.
Again their relationship is really enhanced by The Clone Wars.
I think aside from the weak script they really just don’t have the time in this movie to make a convincing love story.
And partly I think that’s the point.
Once you get past the terrible acting and dialog you start to see that they really aren’t in love and she’s using him as much as he’s using her.
She has just as much of a hole to fill (quiet you) as he does.
She’s just damaged in a different way than Anakin.
If you read the novelization there’s a scene where they have dinner with her family and her internal monologue reveals how jealous of her sister she is.
She has the husband the kids the family that she really wants but knows because of her dedication to the Republic she’ll probably never have.
Then Anakin comes along and he’s basically in the same situation and it’s like wait we could have this secret life.
It became a marriage of obsession for him and a marriage of convenience for her.
She isn’t tied down with him except when she wants to be.
So she gets to have both lives.

That puppet was shockingly bad.
They swear that it was made from the exact same molds as the original puppet but it is FUCKED UP looking.
The biggest problem is probably how much light there is in the Jedi council chamber.
Dagobah is all gloomy and gray/green so he blends in better.
The lighting creates shadows and stuff on his face that make him look totally different in broad daylight.
I think they really did do it just like Empire but it just did not work in that light.
Plus they might’ve messed up the color processing too and that’s how he ended up soooooooooo green and rubbery looking.
Whatever happened it’s horrific and I’m so glad they replaced that thing with CG Yoda for the Blu Ray.

I was totally on board with Boba’s backstory.
Anyone who shits on it is a moron.
First of all it’s the tiniest piece of his history.
I don’t think it ruins any of the mystique of the character because you have 2 decades between his appearances in which he can build his rep as the baddest bounty hunter ever.
Seeing him as a kid interacting (and learning!) from his father was cool I thought.

ThatScoobyDoom: He really does, but we’ll get back to that in just a bit.

You remember how Sam Witwer said that Jedi makes Empire the best Star Wars movie?
In the same vein, The Clone Wars makes this movie tolerable!
It was more than one scene as I recall, I remember her expressing jealousy a few times because her sister literally has the perfect life.
That may be true, but it would be nice if they slowed it down just a bit before they got shoved together in a marriage.
I think this movie really shines a light on Obi-Wan’s failure as a master.
Because while Anakin started his training late, Obi-Wan should have (and I hate to use the term but it fits) beaten those obsessive tendencies out of him…but maybe (and this is total hindsight) this is Anakin’s reaction to seeing how Obi-Wan interacted with Satine.

I don’t know if I buy it being the same mold, the stark difference between the puppet and the CG (which looks sort of like the original) is far to jarring to make it believeable.
It was the best option, and it makes the movie so much better for it.

I wonder if it’s just a gross overreaction to clones that nerds tend to have due to far too much shitty clone nonsense like The Clone Saga from Spider-Man.
Clone has a bad connotation due to that shit.
But as we said repeatedly in Typecast #9/the Podcast, it would be so damn easy to make Boba boring and just plain dull but George instead tried like hell to do something other than make him just a generic bad guy.
I totally think it works because it gives him a reason to prove himself, especially to prove himself as superior or different than the rest of the clones across the galaxy.

@Fitzman73: I think you’re close with that Satine point.
But I think you have it reversed.
I don’t think Anakin knew about Satine prior to the Clone Wars series which happens after this film, so I don’t think it’s Anakin taking after Obi-Wan.
Instead I think that because Obi-Wan had this love affair with Satine, struggled with it, and eventually got past it, I think that makes him go easy on Anakin.
I believe that he always knew something was up, he definitely knew he was in love with Padme and obsessed with her.
Later I think he suspected much more but because he was able to make the right choice with Satine in the end he allowed Anakin to work it out for himself.
And that my friend is what you call fucking up royal.

This did come out when “clone” was a dirty word in the real world even.
This was around the same time that there was so much outrage and disgust in segments of the population about cloning sheep and people saying they wanted to clone a human and all the political and religious aruguing in the media about it.
So you might be right, a lot of people might’ve been turned off by that word.
Dummies.

ThatScoobyDoom: See, this is the shit I love getting into.
As I recall, Anakin was sort of shocked by Obi-Wan’s relationship with Satine, BUT!
When did Obi-Wan have the original spark with Satine?
Was it when he was Padawan to Qui-Gon or when he was training Anakin?
Because, if it was during the training years, given Anakin’s age when he entered his training, I think Obi-Wan would have had to have been alot more hands on with Ani.
The kid was 9 years behind after all, Obi-Wan would have to try and train him as fast as he could to get him caught up so I think his lessons would have happened “on the road” so to speak.
So, whether either of them realized it, I’m guessing Anakin saw something somewhere that suggested to him that it was okay.
It couldn’t be as simple as seeing that Ki-Undi-Mundi was able to marry so he figured “why not me?”, gotta be something there.

Totally.
Can you think of any usage of clones that was good or widely liked?
Cause I’m stumped.

@Fitzman73: I’m pretty sure that his affair with Satine happened before Anakin.
I’m almost positive that at some point they talk about the last time they were together and Obi-Wan was alone actually.
I think he was still with Qui-Gon but advanced enough to be dispatched on solo assignments kinda like they would do with Ahsoka during the Clone Wars.

I don’t know that Anakin would need to see anyone do something in order to think it was ok for him as well.
Quite the opposite actually.
You’re right he was too old to begin the training, he already had a fully formed personality and way of thinking that normally isn’t there in a Padawan and that was his eventual downfall.
He didn’t stick to the teachings because he had too much life experience outside of the Order to take their bullshit rules at face value.
They couldn’t completely reprogram him like they would a normal Padawan.
So I think from the very beginning his attitude was yeah I’ll do it like you say until it doesn’t make sense to me and then I’ll just make my own rules.

Oh and one more thing about Satine/Obi-Wan, I’m also almost positive that she hadn’t seen his beard before they reunited in Clone Wars, so that would point to their trist happening when he was still an apprentice.

ThatScoobyDoom: That shoots that theory to hell then.

Well, what I meant was, Anakin may have had Obi-Wan telling him “hey, you can’t sow any wild oats.” but Obi-Wan was stepping out of line showing Ani that you can’t step out…if you’re stupid enough to get caught!
Anakin may have seen it as an unspoken way to skirt the rules, which in the grand scheme would be considered a path to the dark side.

Well, for some reason everybody thinks to be a full fledged Jedi or a Master you need a beard, but look at Mace.
Obi-Wan could have gone without the beard for a while while he trained Anakin.
Remember, the gap between I & II is 10 years.

@Fitzman73: That’s true.
I’ll have to watch those eps now.
Now I’m curious.

ThatScoobyDoom: Do it and report back.

What did you think about R2 and 3PO being witnesses to the marriage?

@Fitzman73: That closing scene actually made me gasp.
I had read the comic at that point, so I knew about the wedding at the end, but just like Qui-Gon in ep1 I had forgotten it was coming and when they cut from the clone army leaving Coruscant to that beautiful shot at the country house on Naboo I was like a little girl.

It makes total sense that they would be the witnesses.
They’re the witnesses of the entire Saga in general so of course they’d be there.
You finally get to see gold plated 3PO, you see Anakin’s first bionic limb, and it all happens on the spot where they had that first kiss earlier in the film.

The scene works perfectly for me as the end of the movie.
I only wish, as said earlier, their actual chemistry in the movie had been better and their relationship developed better.
But again as we said, Lucas knows how to end a movie strong and for me anyway this was a powerful image.
So much bad shit is about to happen, it really gives this scene an undercurrent of dread.
You’re finishing the movie on what should be a happy, beautiful moment, but you know that’s not how it will go.

ThatScoobyDoom: Okay, I answered this and it didn’t send so now ya’ll get a truncated imitation of what was a brilliant, soul searching, thought provoking, look into the heart of man and machine.

I totally agree with everything you just said, completely.
It was a great, beautiful scene, 3PO and R2 are our windows into this world in a weird way…but I still wonder if it was wise to have 3PO witness something like that which really needs to be kept a secret.

While he isn’t a truly sentient being, much like I-5YQ, 3PO is probably as close to a sentient being as droid can get, they both are programed to be as close to sentient as possible.
And as nervous as 3PO is (not to mention how big of a target he is, being so closely associated with a senator who has as big a public image as the Chancellor) who’s to say he wouldn’t be “kidnapped” and “tortured”, and by “tortured” I mean having his memory bank scanned or stolen, just to get some dirt on Padme?
Which in turn would give them dirt on Anakin, which could end her career and get him banished which was the entire reason for keeping it a secret in the first place!

I think 3PO is as big of a risk as the holy man preforming the ceremony is.
Far too many unnecessary variables that make the risk way higher than it needs to be.

So yeah, I’m a bit conflicted on them being there.
As JJ made sure Kev knew during his Ep VII set visit, loose lips sink starships.
Even though Anakin created him, to me he’s hard to trust with that information.

@Fitzman73: That’s true, although droids memories can be pretty easily wiped so there’s nothing to say he didn’t delete this particular from 3PO’s hard drive at some point.
That’s just me being an apologist again though because that’s actually a pretty fair point.
But Anakin is “the maker” so that’s gotta count for something.
He says zip it and it might be like Robocop, he can’t disobey a direct order and shit.
My money is on memory wipe though.

I’ll stop rambling now. Ha Ha Ha.

We didn’t really touch on Anakin’s mother dying and the slaughter of the Tuskens.
What did you think of that when you first saw it?

ThatScoobyDoom: But if they did wipe his memory, why have him there in the first place?
Seems like alot of extra work when they could’ve just powered him down for a bit.

When I first saw that I was shocked beyond belief.
This was all still new to me but that seemed a little hardcore for Star Wars and in some ways I still believe it might be.
It’s another case of off screen inference that makes it seem far more brutal than showing him actually slicing and dicing those fuckin’ animals.
What about you?

@Fitzman73: The build up was way too lame and rushed.
I mean he finds her so fast in movie time (who knows how long it actually took) that it just seemed to easy to figure out where she was.

I thought the Tusken camp itself was pretty cool.
First time we get to see how they live and their women and children.
But when he finally gets to his mom, I felt her actual death scene was really cliche and poorly acted.

But.

Then there’s the huge payoff as he’s holding her dead body and those crazy strings start to play like something out of Psycho and he gets this crazed look.
The hair on my neck stood up because I knew shit was about to get very VERY bad for these sand people.
This is a moment where Hayden really nailed it.

ThatScoobyDoom: It was handled way better in the novelization, where we actually read about her going missing and Kleg losing his leg.
It gave the whole story a real arc and more time to develop.

Yeah, it was.
“He gets there to rescue him, she sees him again, then dead” is a total paint-by-numbers cliche, but it works for what it is.

That moment when he rolls the single tear then goes into his frenzy or do you mean later at the homestead?

@Fitzman73: I meant in the Tusken camp, but now that you mention it my sentiment applies to both really.
I know some people shit on that homestead scene because he’s a little whiny and over the top at first, but when he confesses to slaughtering all the Tuskens because he hates them, fucking nailed it for me.

The movie novelizations are really underestimated.
I can’t tell people enough that if you feel at all cheated by the prequels, you need to read the novelizations.
There’s so much additional stuff in there, motivations, internal monologues, etc, that enhance the actual films and make up for some of the shortcomings of what got to the screen.
Same with Clone Wars.
We’ve said it a million times but that series really does improve the prequel trilogy as a whole.

ThatScoobyDoom: Well, and I can’t believe I’M the one defending this movie, I wouldn’t call him whiny in the homestead scene.
The dude just found his Mom, probably raped, beaten beyond belief, and she died after seeing he’d come to save her.
You show me somebody that isn’t fuckin’ pissed off and depressed, antisocial, and internalizing, you show me that person and I’ll show you somebody that needs to be locked away on a goddamn prison planet away from people.

I think I said it last time, but I’m going to be reading the Episode III novel soon and I can’t wait.
The best movie of the prequels made better?
Hell yeah!

Speaking of TCW, did you happen to read the movie novel?

@Fitzman73: There was a Clone Wars movie novelization?
I was not aware of that.
That was a weird time for me to say the least.
My first kid was born right as that movie came out, he was maybe 2 or 3 months old at the time, so I hate to admit it but I missed a few things at the beginning of Clone Wars’ life.

This just in, breaking news.
Anakin was NOT aware of Obi-Wan’s history with Satine.
The first proof comes during the first 90 seconds of S2 epsiode 13 “Voyage Of Temptation”.
He senses Obi-Wan’s anxiety around her and Obi-Wan blows him off saying “Never mind, it was all in the past”, Anakin is surprised and says “Oh, you’re close to her?” to which Obi-Wan snaps back at his “I *knew* her. But that was along time ago”.
Anakin lets it go, but you can see by his expression he’s thinking “Holy shit he had a GIRLFRIEND??”

So I think it’s right then that Anakin starts to feel like maybe his marriage to Padme isn’t that crazy after all.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yes, only released in hardcover…which is why I’ve never read it.

Well, it was a good theory I had! Lol

Most definetly, he could only have been encouraged by it.

@Fitzman73: I think you have this season, it’s worth watching.
I just watched Mandalore Plot and Voyage Of Temptation, forgot how great those were, how much good character development there is.

So was there ever any doubt as to who Darth Tyranous was the first time you saw this movie?
They have the big reveal at the end and it’s played like it was meant to be a twist but I remember thinking well duh no shit it’s him.

ThatScoobyDoom: I do, but I have a bad memory…so bad in fact, I just rewatched it 3 months ago.
Alot of great shit in season 2, one had some struggles but 2 got it going good.

Yeah, no big surprise at all.
Who the fuck else could it be?

My big question was who is Sifo-Dias?
And the old EU had an answer!
Wanna know what that was?

@Fitzman73: Sure.
And then I can tell you the real answer. 😉

ThatScoobyDoom: Wait, did they tell his story on TCW?
If so, fuck this Legends nonsense, tell me that first!!!

@Fitzman73: I’ll have to report back. Lol.
I forget all the details, but it’s episode 10 of S6 “The Lost One”.
I don’t think they tell you everything but you definitely get most of it.

What does Legends say?

ThatScoobyDoom: Credit where credit is due, this comes from The Complete STAR WARS Encyclopedia by Stephen J. Sansweet & Pablo Hidalgo and Bob Vitas & Daniel Wallace with Chris Cassidy, Mary Franklin, & Josh Kushins.

The mysterious Jedi who was said to have placed the order for the clone army grown on Kamino.
Sifo-Dyas was a close friend of Count Dooku, and knew of Dooku’s this dissatisfaction with the Republic.
Dooku later murdered Sifo-Dyas, both to cover his tracks and to demonstrate his allegiance to the cause of the Sith.
Sifo-Dyas’s body was kept in stasis on Serenno, and Dooku used it for blood transfusions for General Grievous.
Dooku also gave Sifo-Dyas’s Lightsaber to Grievous.

Pretty interesting, no?

Here’s what he looked like.

image

@Fitzman73: Yeah totally.
It’s funny, what happens in Clone Wars it a little like this.
Not as grandiose though.
I’ll rewatch it and give you the low down.
I remember a lot but I want to give you the right info.

ThatScoobyDoom: I shall expect an update soon.

What else is there that we haven’t touched on?
The Jango/Kenobi fight on Kamino, did we talk about that?

@Fitzman73: Ok just watched that episode.
What follows are SPOILERS so anyone that hasn’t seen S6 ep 10 of Clone Wars can jump ahead unless they don’t mind having it spoiled.

******** BEGIN SPOILERS ***********

The Jedi get a distress call from a ship that went missing many years prior.
Plo Koon is sent to investigate and ends up finding the ship crashed on a barren wasteland planet.
They check the wreckage and he finds Sifo Dyas’ lightsaber but no trace of the Jedi.
Yoda confirms it is his, and that they never found it when he died.

There’s some exposition where they reveal he sat on the council prior to the blockade of Naboo (pre-Ep1) but they booted him because of his extreme views.
They say he kept saying hes saw a great conflict coming and wanted to raise an army to prepare for it.
The council obviously rejected the notion at the time.

They check the archive records and Jocasta Nu explains that Sifo Dyas was sent to negotiate peace between warring tribes on Fellucia, but the negotiations failed and he was killed.
They can’t access the records of what happened to his body however because all other information has been sealed by the office of the Supreme Chancellor.

Yoda goes to speak with Palps to find out why he sealed the files.
Palps claims to not know who Sifo Dyas is.
Since it was before his time he tells Yoda to check with Chancellor Vallorum.

Obi-Wan and Anakin go to Fellucia and question the natives who were present.
They find out another Jedi was with Sifo Dyas when he died and afterwards his body was cremated.

Yoda talks with Vallorum and finds out that he and the senate had secretly dispatched Sifo Dyas to make a deal with the Pike Syndicate, a powerful member of the spice cartel.
They were afraid a full scale war in the Coruscant underworld was about to break out and he was supposed to keep that from happening.
The Jedi were never told because the Senate committee in charge wanted it kept quiet.
The negotiations were delayed before they began because of problems on Fellucia and the Jedi assigning Sifo Dyas to deal with that.
So the secret mission had to wait.
Yoda asks who the second Jedi was, Vallorum said there was no other Jedi, only his own personal aid went with him and both were killed.

Meanwhile, Sidious is pissed at Dooku and tells him he better clean up his loose ends because the Jedi are following a trail.
Dooku says he left no trail but he will visit the Pikes on Obidyah and make sure.

Obi-Wan and Anakin are also sent there see if the Pikes know anything.
They talk to tje Pike leader and see that he’s wearing the same necklace that Vallorum’s aid wore with the chancellor’s emblem on it.
They confront him about it and he immediately admits the aid is there on Obidyah.
He tells them that a man named Tyranous wanted Sifo Dyas dead and paid them well to shoot down his ship.
They gave Sifo Dyas’ body to Tyranous but secretly kept the chancellor’s aid prisoner as insurance.

They take Obi-Wan and Anakin to see the chancellor’s aid who of course is now crazy as a shit house rat.

Dooku shows up.
He kills a bunch of the Pikes on the way to the prison cell where Obi-Wan and Anakin are still talking to the aid.
He’s about to reveal who was really behind Sifo Dyas’ death when suddenly starts choking to death because you guessed it, Dooku.

Anakin and Obi-Wan fight Dooku (badass fight)

The Pikes show up in force and the leader calls Dooku “Tyranous” to which of course Obi-Wan is like Whhhaaat?
And Dooku tells him hey dummy I told you everything on Geonosis you just didn’t believe me.
He says Obi-Wan should’ve joined him like Sifo Dyas did.

More badass fighting.
Dooku escapes.

The council now knows that Dooku was behind the clone army all along.
That their enemy created their army for them.
They have no idea why he would do that but they also point out that if the public were to know this, confidence in the war would be shattered.
Yoda decrees that to avoid a public backlash they must hide their discovery, not even the Chancellor must know.
They acknowledge that they’re caught in the web of Sith Lord and that for now they have to play along and try to win the war as quickly as possible before he’s able to complete whatever he’s planning.

So I guess really this episode just gives more background and confirmation of what we already knew/suspected all along.

***** END SPOILERS *******

The Jango/Obi-Wan fight was tits.
I liked the way they made Jango’s jet pack go crazy and blow up.
It was a cool nod to what eventually would happen to Boba.

ThatScoobyDoom: Whoa!
That’s alot of information to disect.
And yeah, it does just confirm everything we already guessed, but it’s nice to finally know for sure what happened.
Nice to know Valorum came back too.

And having that fight in the rain was something new as well.

image

Going back to the beginning, what did you think of Dex?

@Fitzman73: I had mixed feelings on Dex.
The voice really didn’t work well for me for some reason.
I thought the diner itself was an interesting but looked almost too real world for my taste.

ThatScoobyDoom: Really?
I liked Dex, I was glad when he reappeared in The Clone Wars Wild Space novel.
I was hoping he’d pop up on the series but it sounds like he didn’t.

So how did you feel when Episode II was over?

@Fitzman73: I mean I don’t hate him, he just didn’t do it for me.
I liked that Obi-Wan had this old contact though, that was cool.
He wasn’t in Clone Wars but there was a Jedi general of his species in season 5.

When it was over?
First, I wanted to see it again immediately.
Second, I just felt anxious for the next one.
Your mind is just racing.
You’ve just seen what “the clone wars” mentioned in ep4 looks like and your mind is filled with possibilities as to what would be coming in the next film.
And also, dread because I knew the next one would see bad stuff happen.

ThatScoobyDoom: I understand.
I thought it was cool that Obi-Wan had an old friend/contact that he could go to as well, you could tell simply by the look in his (Kenobi) eyes that these dudes have a deep history.
Really?
Was he…agile?

That’s something I want to explore a bit, the concept of The Clone Wars as an what it was and what it became.
Lucas mandated that nobody could flesh that out for many years because he wanted to do it, so by the time Attack Of The Clones came out you guys had no clue what The Clone Wars were beyond some vauge mention by a crazed wizard of it being a great war.
When you heard the title “Attack Of The Clones” did you immediately think “oh shit, CLONE WARS ARE COMING!!!”?

@Fitzman73: Personally?
No I didn’t.
I don’t know why I was blind to that at first but it wasn’t until Yoda says “Not victory. Begun. The Clone War. Has.” that I was like Oh SHIT!
This is THE clone war.
I don’t know why but even with all the talk of clones and stuff I just thought the clone war was something else entirely.
I thought for sure someone else would make a clone army and it would be another war in the future that had to two fighting each other and that’s why it was called “the clone war”.
I get chills every time Yoda delivers that line.

ThatScoobyDoom: That line is perfect in everyway.
You feel Yoda’s sadness that it’s come to this.

Really?
That is surprising for some reason.
Did you think Episode III would be the war, or at least more than we got?

@Fitzman73: I had no idea that it would start out with essentially the final battle of the Clone Wars.
I knew a lot of stuff had to fit in 2 hours but yeah I never suspected Dooku would be dead in the first 15 minutes and Grievous was almost a non factor after such a buildup.

ThatScoobyDoom: I wanna delve deeper into that in just a bit, but back to Ep II.

Did you get that soundtrack and/or comic adaptation?

@Fitzman73: Yep, both.
Got them the day they came out.
It’s always fun to listen to the score and imagine what will be on the screen.

ThatScoobyDoom: The only Soundtrack I was able to get was Episode I’s.
It’s great to read comics or novels with it playing softly in the background.

You said when II ended you felt anxious for III, at that time, Episode III was going to be the last Star Wars movie ever as far as you knew, was there any sadness mixed in?

@Fitzman73: Oh for sure, that was definitely in the back of my mind.
Not so much right at the end of ep2 but by the time the build up to ep3’s release started it was definitely weighing heavily.
After the OT there were always whispers of more movies, and even though it took awhile I think most fans knew it was just a matter of time.
But when episode was gearing up George said flat out, this is it, I’m done, said all I wanted to say, THE END.
And so for me that was kind of heavy.

Obviously, and thankfully, that turned out to not be the case and we only had to wait a few years before we got The Clone Wars, and now looking into the near and distant future it doesn’t seem like there will EVER be a world without new Star Wars again.

ThatScoobyDoom: Exactly.
As we’ve said in the past, there are interviews in novels where George said there were supposed to be 9 movies, PT, OT, ST.
Rebel Force Radio has been finding these old clips of Hamill interviews saying Lucas talked to him about coming back in 2003 to play old Luke.
So looking back, after III, I find it so strange that George was doing the whole “That’s it, it’s done!” thing, even considering the backlash.

I know, right?
Be it Sequels, Stand-Alones, or TV, The future isn’t clouded for the frachise.

When did the first trailer, and really the hardcore build up, for III hit?

@Fitzman73: The first thing I remember people losing their shit over was the first image of Jedi Anakin.
People went berserk “Holy shit he’s got an episode 4 style haircut!”.

You know I actually can’t even at the moment remember where I first saw the episode III trailer.
Isn’t that sad?

ThatScoobyDoom: For Episode III?
What image was that?

Really?
That was only like 10 years ago, man.

@Fitzman73: I’m pretty sure it was this one or one very similar.
Everyone was like oh wow he looks so scruffy and ep 4 now.
Plus people lost their shit over his outfit because it was an old OT concept design for Luke that they never used.

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I know, I’m old though.
I do remember the Vader/Frankenstein footage of the table rising up and thinking oh no, what are they doing??
I was glad those specific shots didn’t make it into the final film.
They looked cheezy as fuck.
I also remember the lightsaber fight on the lava platform too, but honestly that’s almost all I can remember

ThatScoobyDoom: Ah, yeah I can see it now. Probably the robe.
I liked how his Jedi Tunic amd whatnot was a hint at Vader’s look in a way.

I was gonna say, didn’t they reshoot that to have his arms down?
It still has a very Frankenstienian feel to it.

We’ll go back to the beginning in a few but that right there, lets get into it and start with that scene.
That scene seems to be the lightning rod of the whole movie, most hate it.
What did you feel about the true Rise of Lord Vader the first time you saw it?

@Fitzman73: Yeah they changed it so his arms were down.
Which made it a bit less ridiculous looking.

Well.
First what I did like. Lol.
I liked the beginning of that scene where they’re operating on him and cross cutting with Padme.
I liked seeing his robot legs being attached and stuff.
I really loved the mask going on.
So frightening, so sad.

That being said, I felt the lighting was weird for some reason, and him breaking out his restraints was straight up campy and dumb.
Way too “monster” movie for my taste.
The “no” doesn’t bother me except his body language was a bad choice, his arms should’ve stayed down and flexed and just his head would lean back like an NFL lineman after a sack.
The shaking his fists business was too much.

ThatScoobyDoom: I liked the editing back and forth too, it’s sorta “as 2 lives end…3 begin” in a way.

I’m about too defend that which has been charged as indefensible.
See, alot of folks say that was too big for Star Wars.
I don’t agree with that, I think that Sidious’s bigness was so over the top with the laughs, the no’s, the battles, and everything else he does just to give us a good level for this.
I think it works.
Look, no caring person will ever go through this.
We’ll never be betrayed by our best friend and our wife, almost murder our wife, get mutilated by said best friend, be brought back from the brink of death by a manipulative melted monkey faced man, and told “oh, by the way, you killed your wife and kid in your rage”, so I think the extreme reaction fits the extreme situation.

@Fitzman73: Yeah like I said, his scream doesn’t bother me that much, at least not nearly as much as other people.

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ThatScoobyDoom: I mean the whole thing, flailing arms and all.

So what was your feeling going into this one?
Did the soundtrack get you all nerd wet?

@Fitzman73: Yeah.
I remember getting the CD and immediately thinking the soundtrack was way cooler than episode 2.
I couldn’t wait to see it on screen.

My feeling going into this one was a little weird.
The morning of opening day, we got phone call that my wife’s aunt had died suddenly so all the excitement I had building up was gone.
She insisted that I go ahead and see the movie with my dad but my heart was only half in it.
And all the death and sadness in the film really did have a strange effect on me after that news.
I was still able to enjoy it, but not like I would have.

ThatScoobyDoom: Just based on what we hear in the movie, totally agreed.
So much more going on in that score than II.

Damn, sucks when anybody dies suddenly…and this definetly isn’t a movie you want to go into the first time feeling any sort of down because it’s depressing as fuck.
Going back a ways, but still…sorry for that man.

Did you absorb any of it during that viewing?

@Fitzman73: Yeah I was taking it all in, there was just this undercurrent of real life tragedy that was in the back of my mind the whole time.
The fact that it took me out of what was happening in the real world is either a testament to the strength of the film or the shittiness of me as human being, I’m not sure which.
Probably a little of both.

I loved that it opens on a huge space battle unlike anything from the OT.

I forgot to bring up in the ep 2 discussion how that’s the only one of the 6 where the camera pans up instead of down after the opening crawler.
I’ve actually heard a theory that the reason it appears that way is because the shot is intentionally upside down so really it does “pan down” it just appears to be going up because of way the Naboo ship is being tracked.

ThatScoobyDoom: This might sound haughty or cold, but in times like that, and trust me I’ve had quite a few myself, we tend to not want to deal with the reality of our own shitty situations.
Once you got the imprimatur from the wife, you probably mentally said fuck it and dove right in, knowing that for 2 hours and change you had the chance to open up for the last time and embrace the laserbolts and lifesavers before dealing with the true shit storm that tears through your life after a death in the family.
Has nothing to do with the movie or your lack of humanity.

Yes, that was probably…fuck it, for my money, that is the absolute best opening to a Star Wars movie!
It grabs you by the through and doesn’t let go until Anakin pulls a Harrison Ford and lands as safely as he possibly can on that airfield…which I want to ask you about the logistics of.
Why the hell do they need a strip of land that long?
Do the bigger ships take off amd land like airplanes, needing long runways to get to or come down from high speeds?

Yes, I think Witwer mentioned that in the Rebel Force Radio commentary.
I think he said it’s a subtle sign that it’s going to be a slightly off kilter movie or something like that.
I noticed that upon my second go through of the movies.

@Fitzman73: I never cared for the hot landing sequence to be honest.
It seemed really odd or impossible to pull off.
Plus it has some of the worst dialog and delivery of the whole movie.

I always thought it was just a large landing pad, not that they used it like a runway but like giant parking lot.
The ships in Star Wars definitely don’t need that much room to take off.
obviously they need some but not that much.

ThatScoobyDoom: I liked the sequence but hate the dialouge, though I think Obi-Wan had a great tag.

I should really watch III again, for a few reasons, but I always got the vibe that this was a normal thing for Anakin only this time he was only landing half of a ship with a lot less control.
Seems like a waste of space though, knowing how Coruscant is you’d think that much open/unused space wouldn’t be allowed.
They love jamming shit into that City/Planet.

My memory sucks, have we ever seen a star destroyer actually lift off?
Or for that matter, land?
I remember seeing them close to the ground but never on it.

@Fitzman73: A star destroyer, no I don’t think we’ve ever seen one land but Republic battleships which were basically the first star destroyers, we have seen those at the end of ep2 taking off.

Anakin landing the ship definitely does work better for me now because we did see him do super hero-ish stuff in the Clone Wars.
But in 2005 all we’d really seen was episode 2 Anakin and to just jump into episode 3 and now this dude is crash landing ships from orbit with no casualties seemed like, huh?

ThatScoobyDoom: I feel like I’m getting really pedantic, but weren’t those airbourne already?

This is true, again it seems it’s a case of “TCW to the rescue!”.

You dug that space opening though, right?

@Fitzman73: I don’t think so.
Weren’t the clones marching up the loading ramps onto them?

Yeah I dug the opening for sure.
Again some of the dialog, not that great but the action was good and you also got the added surprise of guess what?
Dooku’s dead. Lol.

ThatScoobyDoom: I feel like we saw the Troops loading in and then it cut to the cruisers in the air, but I’ve already admitted to vauge memories about II.
I keep saying I should rewatch it but it hurts too much.

What did you think when you literally saw his fuckin’ head roll?
That was a big shock/delight for me.
Such a mix of emotions too!

@Fitzman73: Oh right, you didn’t see them lift of completely, but they were parked on the ground.
The ones lifting off in the background were going almost straight up like a Harrier jet and then angling up and out of the atmosphere.

I almost shit when he killed Dooku.
What was even more shocking to me was Palpatine almost showing his hand by goading Anakin into doing it.
I was surprised he already had such a strong influence on him.

ThatScoobyDoom: Strange.

Yeah, and Anakin even feels a bit of remorse for doing it. But the master manipulator played on his emotions and got him to do it despite his obvious moral quandary.
That Palpatine, he ain’t a nice guy, is he?
And you can see the hatred on Pals face because Anakin is still bound to keep Obi-Wan alive.

@Fitzman73: Oh yeah he was super irritated at that.
He saw the perfect opportunity to be rid of Obi-Wan and when Anakin defied him and insisted on carrying him to safety that was a really good character moment.
He essentially even tells Palps straight up look I don’t leave people, if he dies it’s because we all die.

ThatScoobyDoom: Here’s a question that I have an answer too (and I hope we haven’t discussed this previously, but if so oh well) that I’ve seen before but has been making rhe rounds recently, do you think during the Clone Wars as a whole that Palpatine/Sidious protected Anakin because he knew he wanted him as his apprentice?

@Fitzman73: They’ve brought that up numerous times on RFR during the course of the Clone Wars run, and originally I thought maybe he did, but as the series goes on it becomes more and more clear to me that no, no way was he shielding Anakin.
He was ultimately controlling every aspect of the war on both sides either directly out in the open, in the shadows as Sidious or via the manipulation of third parties who had no idea they were being used as pawns.
The situations he allowed Anakin to get into, the assignments he went on and the battles he fought in were not easy or safe.

And as the RFR discussions always point out, he wouldn’t protect a potential apprentice anyway.
Yes he always knew Anakin was special and wanted him BAD but if he wasn’t good enough to survive the Clone Wars there’s no way he was skilled enough or cunning enough to be a suitable replacement for Dooku.

I think he did have a hand in some of the missions that Anakin was sent on but if anything I think he might have made sure he got harder assignments rather than easier ones.

ThatScoobyDoom: Exactly!
I’ve never understood the argument that he protected him.
It doesn’t make a bit of sense.
Why would he want an apprentice that couldn’t handle themself?
From Bane down, every Sith’s goal was “if I can’t live to see it myself, I want this order to get stronger and stronger with each generation so that eventually the Sith are strong enough to rule the galaxy forever more”.
To protect Anakin is to weaken him without him ever even knowing it, he must face seemingly insurmountable challenges or he’d never grow stronger.
He’d only be stuck spinning his wheels, never reaching higher levels of power to become worthy of the mantle of the Sith.

Let me ask you this, why do you think Sidious chose Dooku after Maul?
Dooku was far older than Sidious.
Do you think he chose him because he saw something in him that he felt he needed to learn that could further the Sith cause and lead to the downfall of the Jedi?
That Dooku was a fallen Jedi, so he could learn the ways of the Jedi order, learn of a potential weakness in the order that he could exploit, or do you think there was another reason?

I just want to mention Episode II again real quick, I just finished watching it.

1. I don’t remember if I asked you about those Death Star plans, did that make you nerd squee?

2. Did you notice how vaginal Geonosian architecture is?

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3. Did you notice that the clear bubble pods on the Trooper transports are mini Death Stars?

4. We do actually see those destroyers take off.
As the kids say, my bad yo.

@Fitzman73: Palpatine is playing a long con, he is the king if patience.
I think it’s a pattern with him (and probably most Sith that came before him), you have your top guy, your active apprentice, but you’re constantly looking for others, you’re constantly grooming potential replacements.
It’s a long process, so it makes sense to have multiple irons in the fire so when and if your top man gets cut in half, well, call down to the minors and bring up the next victim.

So I think, just like with Anakin, Dooku came on his radar at some point and he watched his career with great interest and along the way fed his dissatisfaction with the Jedi, and by the time Maul was killed Dooku was more than willing to become his apprentice.

I think he does take a special joy in corrupting jedi and bringing them over to his side.
They’re already skilled force users and warriors, so they don’t have to be trained from scratch, they’re the perfect group to pluck apprentices from.

As for your episode 2 questions

1. Death Star plans made me shit.
Was not expecting that at all.
That I believe was not in the comic so I was totally shocked by it.

2. Ummm, no….

3. Never really thought of them as mini death stars but I can kinda see that now.

4. Booya.

ThatScoobyDoom: We both know I’m a fan of that theory. Lol
It’s Legends now but shit, even Vader did it!
That’s what The Force Unleashed was about, Starkiller was Vader’s secret apprentice.
He was grooming him for whenever Vader decided to challenge Sidious for the throne.

I question the decision to go so much older though, why waste your time with this old dude that is clearly not going to be a part of the future when you could take on a young apprentice and further the cause?
Like we both said, maybe it’s because he’s experianced and Sidious thought he could get a new insight, but he doesn’t need to make him his apprentice to do that.
Seems a waste.

1. I can’t recall if it was in the comic either, and I just read it a last year.

2. Look at the top of the archways and arena battle, when they show Dooku in that skybox watching.
Looks like pussies ta me.

3. Their are alot of mini and pre-Death Star designs in this movie.

4. Nobody likes a show off.

New question.
5. Where did the Trooper transports and vehicles come from?
There was no army to use it, the Republic didn’t know about the Clones, how did they have that shit prepped?

@Fitzman73: That was always a little odd to me too.
I understand for dramatic purposes they had to have the clones swoop in at the last second to save the day but that was kind of a “what the hell where’d all this gear come from” moment because prior to that we hadn’t seen any indication that they had all this equipment and weaponry and shit.
I know they did it that way for the surprise reveal at the end but it did seem like it came out of nowhere.

I’m guessing that the Kaminoans outfitted them will all that tech.
I’m sure they had to subcontract it out but it had to be part of the purchase price.
Like you said, this wasn’t already owned by the Republic so Sifo Dyas must’ve ordered everything together.
What good are soldiers with no weapons?

ThatScoobyDoom: That brings up the question of where did Sifo-Dyas get the money for all of this?
1.2 Million Clones, 1.2 Million sets of Armor, 1.2 Million Rifles, Blasters, Launchers, Grenades of different varieties, Transports. Just looking at how the Kaminoans were portrayed in Legends canon, these cold monsters didn’t provide all of this shit out of the kindness of their hearts!

Sifo-Dyas had to embezzled billions from somebody to do it, why did nobody notice that much money not being where it was supposed to be?

@Fitzman73: 2 words: Lost Missions.

ThatScoobyDoom: You funkin’ tease!

Back to Episode III then, where do you fall on the whole “Anakin can see future in his nightmares” bit?

@Fitzman73: At least I’m pretty sure there’s a little explanation for that in the Lost Missions.
There’s an episode or 2 that involves the banking clan and the Republic borrowing money and all that shit.
I think things are revealed there.

It makes sense that he has the gift of sight.
There’s a school of thought (that I agree with) that not all Jedi can see the future.
They can all sense things before they happen but to actually SEE visions is special.
Notice that Obi-Wan doesn’t?
Yoda can and it’s a big deal when Ahsoka starts having them in the Clone Wars.
And Luke has them in Empire, so it makes sense that his dad would have them too.

ThatScoobyDoom: The Republic borrowing from the Banking Clan?
That had to have been some super secret dealings since the Banking Clan were fully in support of the Separatists.

Yeah, makes sense.
Is Anakin the only one that has them in his sleep?
Yoda can settle in and turn on the future sight.
I don’t know how Ahsoka’s visions work, she didn’t really have that ability in Seasons 1-2.

Did Luke have future visions?

@Fitzman73: I’m pretty sure they were.
I’ll have to rewatch and report back.
The way I remember it though, the Banking Clan was mostly neutral and they were lending to both sides.
Money talks and politics walks basically.

You might be right, I don’t remember Anakin having any when he was awake.
I’m pretty sure Ahsoka’s were in her sleep too.
I’m thinking they show up in the last arc of season 5?

Luke definitely had the vision of Han and Leia on Cloud City and saw them in great pain, so not really a far future vision but he was most definitely seeing what might be about to happen.

ThatScoobyDoom: The Muuns were slippery shits, but that dude in II seemed pretty clear as I recall…which it is sad that I have to put “as I recall”, I just watched II 3 fucking days ago, man.

Really?
Hmm, could that be the midichlorians of Anakin influancing Snips maybe?

Yes, that is right.
I forgot that.
But, and this is admittedly me being a detail bitch again, was that a vision or a feeling?

@Fitzman73: No he says “I see a city in thr clouds”.
So I think it’s more than just feeling a tremor.

He was pretty clear, but just like the Trade Federation, there are multiple factions and different people influencing events and decisions.
I’ll watch that episode again and see what was really going on there.

ThatScoobyDoom: Okay.

We’ll come back to that.

What did you think as Grievous made his weezy way into the pictute?
I know I had a very memorable reaction.

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@Fitzman73: I didn’t know what to think.
I thought he was cool as hell but the coughing was unexpected.
It took me a minute to get on board with that.
Also, the voice was not what I expected.
Not sure what I expected based on the advance images but it was a lot tinnier than I thought it would be.

ThatScoobyDoom: I was shocked!
You can see he has organic eyes, that made me wonder what the hell this dudes story was.
He’s almost as bad ass as Maul too me.
Just a pimp look, sound, and style.

Did they ever fully explain his background?
I know episode 10 of season 1 was set in his hideout but I don’t recall delving deep into his history.

@Fitzman73: No not really.
That Clone Wars episode just kind of shows you how he’s like someone addicted to plastic surgery, how he basically replaced all his organic parts on purpose to become a stronger warrior.
They don’t really ever go into his backstory too much.

I remember seeing an advance teaser image of Grievous that was just a closeup of his eye.
You could see part of the mechanical head with the organic eye and people were like what the fuck??

ThatScoobyDoom: That sucks.
As you say, it was hinted at, and I’m not 100% sure of his Legends background, but I think it was something like he was this great warrior that was much feared and respected and he wanted to he even better.

I can understand why.
He has an amazing look.
I’ve seen some say he’s the proto-Vader, Palpatine was screwing around with hybrid mandroid shit just incase.
Thoughts on that?

@Fitzman73: I’ve heard that too that he was the prototype Vader.
I’m not sure where I sit on that.
At first I thought yeah I can see that, but the more I’ve thought about it over the years I don’t think Palpatine had much to do with him at all.
I don’t know this for a fact, but I can’t think of a time other than his first appearance in ep 3 where he actually speaks directly to Sidious.
In Clone Wars he is usually dealing with Dooku.

But obviously his tech and bionic parts are a good foreshadowing device or preview of Vader from a storytelling perspective.

There’s also a little backstory in the Clone Wars micro series that is supposed to explain his cough.
This is of course NOT canon, but in that series he fights Mace Windu and Mace beats his ass and force crushes his lungs which gibes him that cough.

ThatScoobyDoom: Well, Dooku is just a proxy for Sidious.
Sidious gives and order, Dooku figures out how to get it done, then he gives a report on how it all went down and works.
I could see Dooku working out the kinks, giving Sidious a full technical read out, Sidious now has this new knowledge, Dooku gets dead, some other stuff happens, the Jedi fall, Vader is born, sent to Mustafar, meets Obi-Wan…suddenly, Sidious has a use for all the knowledge that he had Dooku spend 3-5 years (or more, we really have no clue where Grevious comes in at) experimenting with and perfecting.

He seems almost like what alot of people speculated that Vader was before Jedi came out, a robot with some man parts.

That’s kinda cool.
I always just guessed he got damaged during the transfer into the metal body.

How about that Grevious theme Williams did?

@Fitzman73: Brilliant as are all of his other themes.
I can’t wait to hear what he’s written for Episode 7.

Probably what will end up some day as the “canon” reason for Greivous’ cough will be more like what you described.
His lungs are basically out in the open it seems.
It was too hard for Obi Wan to open him up and expose those organs so I’m gonna guess that is not conducive to preventing lung infections.

ThatScoobyDoom: I feel like it’s almost a waste for me too talk about about Williams music because I know nothing about music.
All I can say is “damn, that’s good” or “that sounds awesome”.
That’s how I feel about all of it, just amazing.
I really wish I had the soundtracks for III and V.

Yeah, and if he’s been on the run and traveling to all of these different worlds, who knows, he may have picked up some form of spore that got in there and is causing a degeneration.

What did you think about finally seeing a good chunk of Kashyyyk?

@Fitzman73: Taking the conversation back for a sec, I rewatched the Clovis arc from the Lost Missions and I was only partly right.
They don’t say how the Clones were funded, but they do show that the banking clan is “neutral” in the war with both sides borrowing money from them and agreeing to leave that planet alone and keep the banks stable.
Then the main plot o this arc is the discovery of corruption in the banking clan (duh) and Sidious manufacturing all this intrigue between the Seperatists and Republic so that eventually he gets himself (Palpatine) appointed head of the banks so the Republic controls the main bank on Scipio.
It’s a surprisingly good.
And I still maintain that somewhere they mention how the clones were paid for but it wasn’t in this arc.

I loved seeing that in episode 3 but I was pretty disappointed in how short it was.
I really liked seeing the beach and ocean and stuff since we’ve only ever heard of it being a forest world.
It was more like a jungle.

ThatScoobyDoom: So in that series they showed him getting EVEN MORE power then the shit loads we see forked over in the movies?
Shit.
Right on, the mystery persists.

I think they said on the Blu that they based it on what little we saw in the Holiday special.
That level is fun as shit on Battlefront II.

I wanna lead this into Order 66, but what do you think about all those planets we saw during the execution of said Order?

@Fitzman73: Yep.
So now not only does he control the Republic AND the Separatists, now he controls the banks too.
It’s pretty easy to see how he just flicks a switch one day and becomes Emperor.
Like, who’s gonna stop him?
He literally controls everything but the Jedi themselves, and, well……Order 66 takes care of that.

First time I saw those planets I was like oh shit where have these been?
They were all so cool looking.
Fellucia looked a little cartoony to me but the ash planet that Ki Adi Mundi was on looked awesome.
I wanted to see more of them, and again, it’s Clone Wars that eventually delivers.
I think they spend episodes on all of those planets, some multiple times.

ThatScoobyDoom: And it seems like he was going to take over the Jedi too if Mace hadn’t been all like “fuck that, this is our shit. Lets get him.”.
Everybody was grappling for power.

While I totally agree about Fellucia looking cartoony, I think it’s the most beautiful of all of those planets.
Juxtapose that with the horror that takes place there and it’s a moment of sheer depression.

Lets get into it, how did you feel that first time, especially when taking your personal feelings going into it, when you saw Order 66 being played out?

@Fitzman73: Sad.
So sad.
The betrayal, the dramatic score playing under it, the cold blooded instant death that was dealt, it emotional.
I got chills.
When Obi-Wan gets blasted and he falls off the cliff with his lizard mount and it lets out that cry on tbe way down, it’s honestly still hard for me to watch.

ThatScoobyDoom: The part that really hits me is when Yoda clutches his chest and drops his stick.
The animators did an amazing job displaying his emotion.
That’s gut wrenching.
Obi-Wan splashing down is a tough watch too.
And going back to Fellucia, the way the clones keep firing on Aayla even after she falls down is just pure brutality.

This is what I wonder though, was this George saying “fuck, everybody’s bitching at me about how light these prequels are. What can I do to make them see it’s not just Gungans and Twin Sunshine? Hmm, lets kill some babys!” Because this whole ending is just a huge series of “fuck it, lets go for broke” moments.
What do you think about that?

ThatScoobyDoom: No he definitely had this planned from the start.
I remember very early on him saying the third one is going to end badly.
There was talk at first that he was prepared to go for an R rating even.
I don’t think it had anything to do with complaints.
If it did, I’m sure Jar Jar would’ve been first to get fried.

Yeah Aayla Secura’s death was almost over the line in terms of just cold blooded brutality.
Ki Adi’s was rough too.
Did you know that if you watch closely his arm gets blown the fuck off?

ThatScoobyDoom: R rated Star Wars?
That would have been different.
That would have definitely changed Hollywood.
A big summer spectacle film never goes that hardcore, it would have made studios take chances with Summer movies the same way The Hangover made them with comedies.

I doubt he would have taken Jar Jar out, that’s a character that, despite all of the hate, he still likes and that takes precedent over whiners.

Totally, none of the others really strike me as too much.
Um…NO!
I’m getting ready to pop my Blu in and check this!

What did you think about the massacre of the younglings?

@Fitzman73: Aside from the terrible child acting?
I thought that was pretty hardcore.
But at the same time it suffered the same way Anakin’s actual “fall to the dark side” scene suffered.
It happened too fast.
I know that was a limitation of the running time but one minute he’s on the fence and the next he’s killing babies.
I would’ve liked to see the change spread out a little more gradually.
I found it hard to believe that he changed that much in a few seconds.

Again though, shifting into broken record mode, this is a shortcoming of the films that the Clone Wars series really smooths out.
They don’t necessarily get to fix it completely but there’s WAY more development in that show and you get glimpses of that darkness simmering under the surface.
That show gives you enough that you start to buy it that by the time of episode 3, yeah this dude is fucked up and Palpatine has him so far on the hook and he’s been fucked over by the Jedi enough times that yeah, he could totally snap and turn on a dime.

ThatScoobyDoom: Terrible and child acting are almost synonyms, Potter is the rare exception.
We have talked about that a bit, having thought about it a bit more sense, even without TCW, if you think about it, Anakin had no choice.
When he stopped Mace in hopes of saving Padme, he turned his back on the Jedi.
He had no choice but to do everything Sidious told him to do, if he turned his back on Sidious too he would have had the Jedi and the Sith (and that’s basically the whole galaxy) on his ass, hunting him like a rogue Nerf.
Sidious offered him protection from the Jedi, taking out the younglings in that way ensured his future and cleared the road ahead.
Also, he told Padme in the past (in Attack of the Clones I believe) that he basically supported a dictatorship, so it’s not a huge surprise.

Again, even after 2 seasons and a movie, I agree.
Anybody that skips TCW is missing so much.

@Fitzman73: And I think that was pretty much how George set it up, that he had basically painted himself into a very dark corner.
But man, seems like there might’ve been other alternatives to slaughtering jedi younglings.
I guess the point though is that by that time all the way until he sees Padme on Mustafar, “Anakin” has left the building and has completely shut that side of himself off, like blackout drunk on dark side energy.

ThatScoobyDoom: Naw man, what better way to cripple the order than to take out the ones in training?
It killed their future for at least 20-25 years, lets the Sith spread their Empire to the far reaches before having to worry about a strong uprising of force wielders.

So it’s a 2 Birds One Stone scenario, it shut Anakin down like you said, but it also creates the perfect path of least resistance for Sidious to take over the Galaxy.

Lets get to Mustafar, were you shocked by any of that scene on the landing pad?

@Fitzman73: The only part that shocked me was that he didn’t actually kill her.
I did let out a gasp when he force choked her though.
I thought Obi-Wan’s lines were great.
Hayden could’ve dialed it down a bit, but otherwise it was pretty great.
The trigger for the moment we all waited 30 years to see.

ThatScoobyDoom: I was shocked that it took Obi-Wan so long to come down the ramp.
I can understand he wanted Padme to learn the truth but shit, help a sistah out dude.

The choke was another of those moments of sheer brutality, after spending the whole movie talking about loving he turned into a derp.
Loved her and hugged her and squeezed her til her fuckin’ eyes popped out is what he about did.

Agreed on Hayden and Obi’s lines.
Speaking of Obi-Wan, I always laugh in that scene when he pulls his lightsaber.
It’s very clear Ewan thought that would be the moment of ignition, but instead he’s left looking like an drama queen with that flurish.

@Fitzman73: Right with his signature 2 finger point.
I wonder how long it took Ewan to come up with that?
Or if it was Nick Gillard who thought of it.
Or more likely it was George saying “uhhh yeah, do something with your hands, yeah, that’ll be cool”.

When the sabers did ignite, were you satisfied by the duel to end all duels?

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ThatScoobyDoom: I like that point.
I’m talking aboyt right there on the landing platform where he pulls his hilt and kinda flicks his wrist.
They cut to Anakin, then cut back to Obi-Wan, and THEN Obi-Wan’s blade ignites.
It’s fucking hilarious, but it always takes me out of it for just a sec.

It would be interesting to know where that 2 finger thing came from though.

Start to finish, without a shadow of a doubt, the best lightsaber fight I’ve ever seen.
The choreography, the lava erupting and splattering, that tower thingy, the weaving in and out/back and forth on the river, it’s a breathtaking series of images.

Did you ever see that Lion King meme?

@Fitzman73: I never noticed that before.
I wonder if that was intentional or a goof in the editing.
I’ll watch for that next time.

I liked that fight too.
A lot of people bitched because it was blue saber on blue saber so it wasn’t as easy to see whose blade was whose, but I didn’t mind that at all.
I actually would’ve like to see it get a little more physical, we get a taste a few times where they kick or punch each other but a lot of it was too clean and controlled, it was almost TOO pretty.
I would’ve like for them to get a little more emotional or savage, turn it into more and more of a street fight the longer they battle.

Really the only complaint I have is with the way it ends.
After that big long epic battle with neither person having an advantage, Anakin thinks he’s going to somersault over Obi-Wan and NOT got diced?
I don’t buy it.
That felt like extremely lazy writing.
Like ok we’ve had this giant awesome fight how do we end it?
Uh I no idea, let’s just have him do something completely nonsensical and Obi-Wan chops 3 of his limbs off.
Wow.

Oh and no I don’t think I’ve seen that Lion King meme.

ThatScoobyDoom: It must be editing, it appears they just didn’t have another take.

Really?
I think it’s stupid to think, with everything Sidious had him running around the galaxy doing, killing babies, killing the separatist Council, that he had time to sit down and build a red bladed lightsaber.
Add in all the personal worries and conflict, I doubt he was worried about it either.
And I never had a problem following the 2 blue blades, pay attention and there is no problem following the action.

An arguement could be made that they know each other so damn well that it has to be perfect, pretty, smooth.
Think about how many hours they’ve spent training, sparring, side by side, back to back, drilling, going through the paces, making sure their bodies are at the peak of perfection.
All that said, I totally agree.
Anakin had so much anger at Obi-Wan, he told Padme in II that Kenobi was holding him back.
This was the moment to put all of that on the table and be like “this is what you did that lead me here asshole!”, to just throw every frustration he’s had in the last 15 years at him.

That bugged me a bit too.
Not so much that Anakin thought he could hop over Obi-Wan and TADA!!! be the winner, but that they were both exhausted, Anakin makes the jump, then Kenobi makes a surgically precise series of cuts in a millisecond and chops every single one of Anakin’s limbs off…EXCEPT for one which just so happens to be the robot arm that would be strong enough to keep him from sliding completely into the lava pit.
Part of me thinks it might be George tilting one of the franchise trademarks of losing a hand on it’s head, but I think it’s more likely he just wanted to make sure that Anakin was indeed more machine than man and he felt this was the best way to get there given the time constraints he had.

Here’s one of the many versions of that meme, not sure where it all started or where this particular version is from.
I got it off twitter.

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@Fitzman73: Holy shit.
That meme is dead on.
Ha ha ha!

Totally, the blue blades never bothered me really either.
For me it was a little surprising that it wasn’t red, not because I thought he should’ve had time to build a new saber, obviously he didn’t.
But as we’ve discussed before, in the old days and in to the prequel era especially when we started to see purple and yellow blades, there was always this kind of common fanboy thought that part of what makes a lightsaber’s color was of course the focusing crystal but also the actual Force of the wielder.
That would explain why Mace is the only Jedi we see with a purple blade.
And it was always my thought that when a Jedi went full Sith their blade just turned red as a reflection of the dark side energy.

Obviously this was never canon or even in an EU novel that I recall, it was just one of those fan circle things that goes around until it becomes a “well it must be canon somewhere” type things.

Of course, we see in episode 3 that it’s not the case at all, and later in the Clone Wars there’s a whole arc following a group of Padawans as they build their first sabers that goes into even more detail.
Pretty great arc and if we ever do another Clone Wars discussion you would probably love the episodes.
So bottom line the Sith must have their own special reserve of red crystals.

As much as I disliked that somersault, I loved the aftermath. It was brutal to watch in the theater.
Probably the most well delivered scene in the whole PT.
The heartbreak on Obi Wan’s face and in his voice is seems so real to me.
Hayden’s “I hate you” was perfectly delivered and the look in his eyes makes you believe it.
That whole exchange trumps the duel for me.

The only part that bothers me, and obviously it had to be this way or else the OT doesn’t happen, is the way Obi-Wan pulls a Bond villain and just walks away and leaves his smoldering body behind without verifying death.
Do you think he knew he was alive?
He had to right?
How could he not sense his life force?
Dark Side clouds everything I guess?
Or did Obi-Wan just leave him burnt up and crippled and left his fate up to the will of the Force?

ThatScoobyDoom: Since seeing that meme, I’ve wondered if my subconscious noticed that and that was why I loved that whole scene, and really all of the movie.
The Lion King is without a doubt my favorite movie ever, so when it’s copied with a slight twist why wouldn’t I like it too?

Ya know, I don’t know if we’ve talked about that theory or if I’ve ever heard it or considered it.
In the history of my fandom, it has always been the crystals dictate color.
But that is interesting, I’m guessing at the height of the Republic, the Jedi had the luxury of being able to get different colors of crystals.
During the OT, and immediately after, resources were so thin, hell the order was so fractured, that nobody had the ability to have fancy colored blades.
Blue was obviously the most popular color so that would be the one we see.

Sounds like a good arc, I yearn to see (own) the rest of that show!

“YOU WERE THE CHOSEN ONE!!!” That line hurts every goddamn time!
That whole part works for me, battle, aftermath, everything.
Yes!
Anakin is seething, and you can tell he wants to do more but can’t.

Ah, I can explain this!…but it makes other things a bit confusing.
He walks away because Anakin is basically dead, he can see and sense that he’s alive.
But once his body goes up in flames he figures he’s dead anyway.
Burnt to a crisp, 3/4ths limbless, and not an adequate medcenter anywhere within parsecs, no medkit can heal that, bacta can only do so much, problem solved!
Now how does this confuse things?

Unless Obi-Wan runs into Vader sometime between III & IV, how the hell does he know Anakin and Vader are one and the same?
We know the light side of the Force is shrouded by the dark, so he probably can’t sense it.
Force vision?
Gut feeling?
I don’t know.
But to me, it’s clear he thinks he’s dead or dying.
He mustn’t have told Padme he was dying, her dying words are that there’s still good in him.
Or did he see Sidious’s ship coming and figure that Anakin was too far gone?
Just let fried monkey face deal with it.

This is one of those kinks that George didn’t iron out as well as he could have.

@Fitzman73: I’d have to rewatch the scene of Obi-Wan and Yoda watching the surveillance footage of Anakin wrecking the temple, but for some reason I think there’s a part where he is reporting back to Sidious and they hear him called “Vader”.

In that season 5 arc, you get to see that those crystals aren’t just some rare gem that costs a fortune to buy or a resource that the Jedi have stockpiles of.
To acquire a crystal is actually a test much like Luke’s test in the cave on Dagobah.
The crystal only shows itself when the Padawan is ready.
Kind of like Harry Potter where the “wand chooses the wizard”.
You don’t just get to say I want a green one.
You get what gets you.
But yeah that Force influenced color theory has been around at least in my brain since long before there were published schematics showing what parts make up a saber.
Their construction method wasn’t always so official.

I can see where he just figured he’s almost dead so just leave him, but that seems kind of un-Jedi to just let something suffer until it dies.
I guess he just couldn’t detach enough emotionally to put him out of his misery.

ThatScoobyDoom: Huh, I’ll have to rewatch and see.
I don’t recall that but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Damn!
All the great groundwork shit was in season 5.

Yes!
Remember, Obi-Wan said he couldn’t kill him.
…he has no problem maiming and disfiguring him, but he can’t bring himself to give the deathblow.

***update*** I bow to you, Master Fitz. The holovid shows them the birth of Vader.

@Fitzman73: ***Pauses for applause break***

That’s from within the temple as well though, so it’s not from the “henceforth you shall be known as” scene in Palpatine’s office, but from after the massacre.
Sidious enters the temple to see the results and congratulate Vader.

Season 5 was a real pisser.
5 and 6 together will blow your mind apart with all the cool reveals and explanations.

So what’s your take on why Sidious rescued Vader?
He was like you said crisped up and crippled, mostly dead, why not shit can him and get a healthy apprentice?
Had his bond with Anakin grown that strong or was he just impressed that he had willed himself to stay alive?
Or was it his own pride that he couldn’t let his immaculately conceived Force son die?

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, I got autocorrected, I meant baptisim of Vader.
He’s just commited his very first act as a member of the Dark Side, before that it was all theory.
Now it’s practice time.
The Henceforth is the birth but killing the babies was where he got the magic water thrown at him.

Sadness I feel, see them I can’t.

After he’s killed the babies, wiped out the Separatist Council, and battled a full fledged battle against a Master Jedi (even though he lost), and he’s still alive!
He’s got a higher midichlorian count than the oldest, wisest, most powerful Jedi the galaxy has to offer at this point, he’s got something, be it will or stubbornness, that makes him worthy.

He wasn’t soft on Vader, nobody was, but he’s still clinging to life, who count be better than him?
Why waste time looking for a new apprentice when you have one right here?
His body has already accepted cybernetics, add some more and roll with it.

You mentioned his immaculate birth, Sidious knows that well too.
He, just like everybody else, thinks this boy was forged by the Force for a reason, for greatness,Sidious believes that reason, that greatness, is to serve at his side!

@Fitzman73: Where do you stand on the whole “Padme died of a broken heart” debate?
There’s recently been a lot of renewed focus on that with some pretty interesting theories coming out.

ThatScoobyDoom: I buy her dying of a broken heart because I’ve actually seen it happen sort of.
This may sound a bit stupid or reaching, but fuck anybody that denys it.
We had these 2 Boxers, one was like a mother to the other.
The one that was the “daughter” was hyper as fuck!
Bouncing off the goddamn walls, man!
So, finally, nature happens and our Mama dies She was a beautiful dog that we all miss to this day, but there was another death that day.
As soon as her Mama died the “daughter” changed dramaticly.
She was truly lost man, you could see it in her eyes, she was just done.
Few months later, she still hadn’t gone back to normal, she died.

So, I think it’s 100% possible…but George has said many times that he laid alot if shit into these movies that folks will spend years finally uncovering.
I’m a dude that tends to take shit at face value, I could be wrong about the intent of it.

What are some of the theories?

@Fitzman73: Well one is of course that Sidious actually reaches out with the Force and snuffs her out just so he can tell Vader she’s dead and have that hanging over him.
This one I don’t buy though because if he could do that then he’d certainly know she was pregnant and about to have Anakin’s babies.
I would think.

Another one is that when the twins were born, suddenly she was missing two huge deposits of midichlorians and the shock to her system was too much and she died, or finally succumbed to her any injuries she might’ve gotten from being choked out.
This one I find pretty interesting and I think that may have definitely contributed to her death but probably not what “killed” her.

Of course I really don’t buy that such a strong person, a woman who just had two babies, is going to be like fuck it Anakin’s a horrible person guess I’ll just die now.
So there’s got to be more to it

ThatScoobyDoom: Well, I don’t buy that fully, now maybe he reached out and felt that she had died, but I doubt he killed her that way.
So that’s out the window.

What about ladies that have twins all across the galaxy?
Even taking the “injuries” into account, this seems thin too.
It’s not like he beat her, he just choked her.
I didn’t get the feeling that he choked her out, she just seemed to collapse for exhaustion.
I feel she’s far stronger than that.

Love can twist people, especially in a case where it’s forbidden and they had such big plans to be together forever.
For him to be so far gone so quickly, I can buy it.
But!
If a theory comes along that makes sense I’ll gladly entertain it.

And I understand my doggy story is different than a human story, but to watch a creature that’s supposed to be inferior to us give up after a death, I can see a human doing it.
And I say death because the Anakin she knew, for all intents and purposes, died.

Do you yourself have a theory?

@Fitzman73: I like to think that the force choke had a lot to do with it.
Coupled with the emotional stress and yes, heartbreak, I think her body just shut down.

Plus, let’s just say it, it was the will of the Force.
It had to happen as part of Anakin’s destiny.

I do wish they had explained it a little different though.
Maybe a better choice of words or something.
Better yet she really should’ve had more extensive injuries to help explain it.
The way it is, it’s just too convenient of a way to get rid of her.
Again, I think that plot point is a victim of trying to fit too much story into one movie.

ThatScoobyDoom: Do you really think she had to die?
She couldn’t have lived and taken the kids and gone into hiding, leaving the Galaxy to think she and her baby died?

It is a bit of a victim of trying to shove 10 pounds of shit into a 5 pound bag, but some of this shit could have been solved simply.

I think we talked about this, but Leia said she remembered her birth mother.
So let Padme live a little bit longer and then have her die when Leia is a toddler.
And, even though it may have pushed the envelope a bit, maybe Anakin should have hit her with the lightsaber or something to drive the whole thing home.

@Fitzman73: I think in the end, they erred on the side of caution.
The movie was already extremely dark, so to add straight up wife beating on top of it all would’ve for sure gotten them a more restrictive MPAA rating.

I don’t think she had to die, but I think Anakin’s connection to her was so great that she wouldn’t have been able to hide.
In fact he even says after he’s told that she dies wait that can’t be I felt her, she was alive when I left her.
And it’s not until after a brief pause, during which I propose he reached out to find her only to have it confirmed, that he knows it’s true and yells the infamous NO!
Yet he doesn’t have that same bond with the children yet because he’s never been in their presence outside of the womb.
If she’d have lived he would be able to feel her and find her or at least know she was alive somehwere and hunt for her.

After seeing episode 3, it changes that whole Leia remembering her mother scene for me.
To me she’s saying yes she remembers her, only barely and when she’s trying to give details it’s hard, she’s thinking really hard.
I believe that she doesn’t remember her mother really only her essence in the force.
That’s why all she can remember really are emotional traits, not necessarily physical ones.

ThatScoobyDoom: That’s exactly what I mean by pushing the envelope, it leaves a thread but imagine how folks woulda jumped on George’s dick if he had beat the shit out of her.
But, on top of the youngling slaughter, it would have finally sold Vader as evil.

I don’t know about that, we’ve said many times that Sidious was clouding the Force.
It’s clear he’d shielded Vader from shit after this, if Sidious knew she was dead or not is irrelevent to the possibility that he could have put a cone of silence over her, right?

I always kinda thought of it that way, you hear folks talk about early memories all the time and they’re about as detailed as what she explained, I only brought that up because alot of people seem to be caught up on that “I remember my mother” scene.
I was always more caught up on the fact that Obi-Wan doesn’t seem to recognize R2 and 3PO at all.

@Fitzman73: That’s been brought up before too about Obi Wan seeming to not remember R2 and 3PO.

I’ve seen a couple of different reasonings, one official and the other just speculation and they kinda mesh together and make a little sense.
Not sure I’m convinced but They’re good enough that it makes me not really question it any more.

Basically it goes like this.
George is on record saying that to the audience even though they’re machines the droids are special, magical, individual beings.
But to the people in the SW universe (with a couple notable exceptions) droids are just appliances.
Like toasters.
They all look and function basically the same, they don’t typically invest that much time or thought on them.
So to Obi Wan, 20 years after the fact, he’s seen tons of protocol droids, tons of astromechs, how is he going to recognize these 2 as anything other than a couple more toasters.

Which brings me to the second point which is really just a piece of very compelling fan speculation that I like a lot.
If you notice Obi Wan never says I don’t know these droids.
What he SAYS is “I don’t recall ever OWNING a droid”.
One way to look at that is that he’s actually kinda busting R2’s balls for saying he belongs to Ben.
Could also just be him thinking out loud while trying to figure out why this droid would make such a claim, or where he might have come in contact with them before.
In fact, I would argue even further that a case can be made that once he sees the message from Leia that he DOES remember them, it all comes back to him.
Watch Alec Guiness’s performance and you’ll see it.
Whether it was intentional or not.
And then he just doesn’t go on to explain anything.
He doesn’t even explain really who Leia is even though he knows.
He couldn’t very well be like oh yeah by the way these are actually your dad’s droids.

ThatScoobyDoom: Clone Wars kinda fucks the George version, especially in season 1.
After Anakin lost R2-D2, not to mention all the time that Obi spent around “him” with Anakin, R2 should be burnt into his mind.
3PO was mostly with Padme after episode II, so that’s understandable.
But R2 made a big splash from ep I on.

That makes more sense even though it takes a bit of retconning and digging deeper to explain.
I can get behind that.

Before we get to the end this, which we are radiply approaching, wasn’t there something about the music that you teased last time we talked movies?

@Fitzman73: Is it bad that I don’t remember?
The only bit of music I remember teasing was for the ending of Episode I.

But while we’re on the topic of endings, I’m not sure that episode 3 could’ve ended with a more perfect scene.

ThatScoobyDoom: Nah, cause clearly I don’t remember either.

Yeah, I was headed there next. The setups for the OT.
The Twin Suns was perfecto!
Do you wish George had included the Yoda on Dagobah scene?

@Fitzman73: Not really.
It was cool to see it as a deleted scene on the Blu Ray but really it wasn’t necessary.
And I’ll go even farther and say that the Organa scene wasn’t really necessary either.
It was fine, but had they chosen to cut that as well I wouldn’t miss it probably.
The money shot, the one everyone was hoping to get was Luke being delivered to the Lars homestead.
It was a beautiful way to close up the trilogy.
And Obi-Wan just quietly backing away and fading into the dunes, it was a very poignant moment for me.

ThatScoobyDoom: I can totally agree with that, though I will say that Yoda scene looks cool and it’s good for newbies even though they have no clue where he’s landing.

2nd to last question.
Do you think Anakin and Padme were doomed from the start due to their respective “jobs”/callings?

@Fitzman73: Yeah for sure.
Put all the obsession and mommy issues and all that aside, they should’ve never been together at all.

Padme says it herself, he’s a sworn Jedi with vows to adhere to and she’s a Senator of the Republic.
Their lives are already pledged to higher callings there’s really no room in their lives for each other.
And I think the seperation and isolation from each other ultimately does take its toll and contributes a lot to the warping of their relationship.

ThatScoobyDoom: Destiny is a fickle dickle.

And I was just thinking, maybe all of that sneaking around is what ultimately lead Anakin down the path to the dark side.

My last question for this behemoth of a conversation.
As a whole piece, I know you dig the PT far more than you’d ever hate it…but more importantly, was it worth the 27 years of dreaming, speculation, waiting, imagining, and hoping?

@Fitzman73: Of course it was for me at least.
And for all of its flaws or aspects that disappointed me, without the PT the Star Wars franchise would be deader than dead.
People seem to forget there was a time when Star Wars had basically faded to nothing.
Starting in 1985 There was almost a decade of NO STAR WARS.
The most we got came by way of the West End Games roleplaying game that dropped in 87.
Otherwise that was pretty much IT until the Kenner toy line fired back up in 95 and the Special Editions a couple years later.

And when I say nothing Star Wars I mean NOTHING.
By the late 80s, other than the hardest of hardcore fans, nobody gave 2 shits about Star Wars anymore.

The Special Editions reminded people how awesome those movies were and got the casual fan interested again.
That fueled the desire for more new content which led to the PT.

The PT brought Star Wars fully back into the popular consciousness of the world.
It doesn’t matter what your personal opinion of those 3 movies are, without them we’d be lucky to just get OT re-releases every 10 years.

Instead, we’ve been given countless novels, video games, 2 amazing animated shows, a new theatrical film coming this year and every year from now on at least for the forseeable future, toys, conventions, costumes, everything you can imagine.

Without the PT none of that happens.
This new generation of Star Wars doesn’t happen.
The current state of filmaking in general doesn’t happen.
The PT were a test ground for tons of stuff that are standard movie making techniques now.
Digital prints? Thank the PT.
Fully realized main characters done via CG? Thank the PT.
Digital environments that are almost indistinguishable from an actual set or location? Thank the PT.

So just by virtue of all the good that has come from the PT, I’d say yeah they were worth the wait.

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I can’t thank good Sir Fitz enough for sliding into the guest seat for me and closing out this prequel talk.
Now do yourself a favor and get your ass over to Twitter and follow Fitz, his pod, and his sister Molly (who he do dat pod with, yo) all them twitters are http://twitter.com/Fitzman73, http://twitter.com/JJ2End, and http://twitter.com/Tacky1Z.
Then, get your tuchus over to http://JJ2end.com and listen to that there podcast he does with Molly (DIDDY BOW!), get it all up in yo ears, man.

Some pictures provided by @SpiderScooby!

Share this post on Twitter with the hashtag #Typecast

Finally, the world sucks enough so don’t add to it by being a fuckin’ dickface.

Typecast #10: Doom-vengers Assemble!

Again, things are gonna be a bit different this time around.
Everybody that I’ve done a Typecast thus far is back for a rapid fire round of fun.
Basically, you’re getting 4 Typecasts for the price of one!

Everybody’s names appear in red and link to their respective sites, twitters, and podcasts.
@TESDGroupie‘s links to her Twitter http://twitter.com/TESDGroupie
SpiderScooby‘s links to his site http://ScoobyFan.Net.
@ScoobyAddict‘s links to her Twitter http://Twitter.com/ScoobyAddict.
@Fitzman73‘s links to his podcast Just Jump To The End.

These conversations appear just as they were had, all flaws intact and no edits to maintain honesty.

First up is @TESDGroupie, to talk MallRats 2, and away we go!

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ThatScoobyDoom: I was gonna get all eloquent and wax rhapsodically but fuck dat noise, Mallrats 2!
Are you as out of your goddamn mind excited for it as I am???

@TESDGroupie: More than excited, I was surprised at first… it sort of came unexpectedly… but now that I’ve seen Jason Lee’s picture (in his instagram no less) I’m so in!!!
What is making you so excited?

ThatScoobyDoom: I was shocked when I heard the rumblings too, but before I could google it Gigliotti tweeted a link confirming it.
I can’t explain how excited I was!
Is that the pic that Kev tweeted of Lee?

That’s a hard question to answer.
It might be because Mallrats was the first View Askew movie I saw, it might be because the cast was so damn strong, it might be because there are so many possiblities for the story.
Hell, it might even be because the story grew out of Kev wanting to feel a connection with Jim Jacks after falling out of contact with the dude.
I don’t know, but I’m almost more excited for this than I am for Clerks III…and I am so fuckin’ ready for that!

Have you been able to nail down what exactly it is that has you so fired up for it?

@TESDGroupie: Yes, it was the same picture Kevin tweeted.

We always have attachment to the things that connected with us growing up, no matter what they were and where we are from.
I always loved the friendships: Jay and Silent Bob and especially TS and Brodie, and how ordinary days can be not so ordinary.
I have a terrible curiosity about the direction it will take, as you say there are so many options.
Actually the fact that Shannen Doherty has said yes made me more curious, cause I am not sure where that may lead to.
Can’t wait for more details and people, but I’m sure Kevin will fill us in as time goes by.

ThatScoobyDoom: That’s very true.
And I connected with Mallrats in a big way.
Right around the time I started getting into comics hardcore about 10 years ago.

It will be interesting to see if Kev can tap into that same goofy plainness that he used for Clerks & Mallrats and that we haven’t really seen since.

Doherty coming back does add a very interesting wrinkle.
Do you really think Brody and Renee are still together 20 years later?
I feel like they would have stayed together for like 5-10 years and probably gotten a divorce.

So far we know Rooker, Stan Lee, Jason Lee, Ethan Suplee, Doherty, Jay, and Silent Bob are all coming back (with another possible reveal tomorrow), who are you most excited to see returning?

@TESDGroupie: I really hope for that goofy plainness… in a way I think it’s what made it so charming.
I think the logic answer is that Brody and Renne are not still together, just can’t picture it.
You are optimistic, I think 5 years is way too long 🙂 But may be they are and it would be an interesting take on it.
I know by now how people settle when you grow into middle age… maybe this is the time when all that explodes and one of them goes #YOHO on things Of the peole on, I’m interesting in Ethan Suplee… curious to know what the take would be.
Of the non-announced yet, certainly I would love to see Steve-Dave and Fan Boy, and Jeremy London.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, I really hope it doesn’t get too complicated.
It did add to the charm, it was more simple than even Clerks in some ways.
2 dudes, no jobs, just fucking off in a mall.

Hahaha, really?
You think even 5 years is too much?

Wouldn’t it be funny if Willam became a College Professor? Lol
Seeing that goddamn sailboat may have opened up the world to him.

I think Bry and Walt are almost a lock, I missed them in Clerks II.
What do you think Steve-Dave & Fan Boy are up too now?

@TESDGroupie: Sometimes I just sit and have a good time, laugh and forget the outside.
Simple is definitely underrated and some times it’s unappreciated.
Sorry, but she seems a bit unbearable and entitled at times, and that can fed up people.
Sounds too crazy?
That is what I like about William being back… the possibilities are endless.
And being a College Professor would be an awesome idea!
I love Steve-Dave & Fan Boy so much (not too mention TESD,as you may know, lol) that I wish things stay as close as the same as possible: just hanging in malls, around comic book stores and bickering.
It would be comforting for me.
I don’t ask for much, right?
Did you have anything in mind for them?
I hope Walt has a second appearance as a wink to Mallrats.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’m with you, simple can be better sometimes.
And I love his more complicated stuff too.

I agree with that too.
And keep in mind, she dumped Brodie that morning and was already with Hamilton by noon!
Met his Mom and everything!
Not like she’s too trustworthy!

I’d like to see Steve-Dave and Fan Boy progress a bit, maybe owning a comic shop, doing something besides just being outraged about silly shit.

Do you think T.S. and Brandi are still together?

@TESDGroupie: I wish they are.
He is willing to fight for her when it is her father that is against it, it’s so endearing.
But I am not sure, there may be more things separating them than joining them, but they being together would mean love wins at the end.
And who doesn’t want to see that?
Too girly?
What’s your take on them?

ThatScoobyDoom: I think their chances are far better than Brodie and Renee’s.
They, for the most part, seem to like one another.
Sure, they have some problems, but nothing they can’t overcome just so long as they stick together.

Do you think Mr. Svenning is still hating T.S. after all these years?

@TESDGroupie: That sounds like I could have said it 😉 I’m not sure if he hates him, but certainly the dislike still exists. One you set your mind that he is not good enough for your precious daughter, nothing will make it good enough. I am certain that he is more subtle about it, and if he tries things, it is going to be in a more concealed way.

By the way have you seen??? … https://twitter.com/ThatKevinSmith/status/581450106920042497

ThatScoobyDoom: Hahaha, thanks!

I don’t know, He and Brodie seemed high on his shit list.
Hard to imagine him ever coming to terms with him being his son in law.
To quote @NeilGat, he’s about as subtle as surprise prision rape.

I was gonna send that to you, I saw it about an hour after he posted that.
I like how he’s revealing a returning cast member every day or so.

@TESDGroupie: Maybe he will not be as subtle, maybe I see it from my perspective.
Women can be more Machiavellian, I guess, and pretend to get along just to not disturb the other person.
Wow, this could be an interesting part too.
Though I always trust what @NeilGat says.
I think that the revealing is being one of the most fun part of the whole thing.
Really well done, but also playing to that love people have for the movie… and I can’t wait for Bry and Walt’s pic 🙂
*fingers crossed*

ThatScoobyDoom: I would bet on that, you can see it on twitter even.
I don’t know if you talk much with chicks on there, but some times I see chicks talking all sweet and then one will DM me and be like “can you believe this cunt?” and I’m always amazed by that.

Neil is a motherfuckin’ genius!

4 folks left, they must be 2.

What do you think the chances of Affleck are?
Think he’ll flap away from Gotham for Kev?

@TESDGroupie: Agreed on the twitter thing…but we would be going into a whole tricky conversation going on that route 🙂
Couldn’t agree more with you.
He was one of my first followers, so almost three years surrounded by awesomeness.
As much as I would like, I don’t think Affleck will be back.
After being such an asshole in the movie, and the end part of the movie (with his new friends in the State Correctional Facility).
Not sure it is that much a Gotham related thing.
Though a cameo, even just walking Hitchcock style, would be fun.
Steve-Dave and Fan Boy are so part of that universe, they have to be there.
If not, it would really be heartbreaking
https://twitter.com/CgfFilm/status/581750458374443008

ThatScoobyDoom: I hear that! Lol

He was one of mine too, never miss an opportunity to praise Neil.
I think I joined about a month after him if I remember right, he followed me soon after and has been a big booster.

Playing Batman might make him too high profile, though it would bring some attention to it.
Kevin had said that he doesn’t really talk to the dude anymore, there’s no ill will there but their carreers have taken them apart.
But on this weeks HB-O Kev said every character from Mallrats is written to return he just hadn’t talked to every actor.
So using that as a segue into your other, I think it’s safe to say Bry and Walt are coming back.

Few other bits from this weeks HB-O, Kev said that they will be shooting Mallrats 2 at the end of this year and that Ralph will have a role.
I’m putting my money on Sean Hartle, the character that was only mentioned in the first and that Kev said Ralph will be playing in Clerks III.

Are you interested to see what Trish The Dish is up too?

@TESDGroupie: As said, I would love to see Affleck, but it does indeed seem hard, even if he has not been approached.
As you say, their careers are now too afar.
Good bet!
If Ralph is playing Sean in Clerks III, I do agree that there is a good chance that is the character he plays.
I love that from Kevin movies, seeing characters moving from one movie to another, even if just for a brief moment.
That is what made it a universe for me.
I think it would be interesting to see what happened with Trish.
After her book being so successful (even with a movie), what can she be doing?
And being so accomplished, if the way is down… a lot of opportunities here, actually.

ThatScoobyDoom: Indeed, but it makes me wonder what Kev wrote for him.
One would think he’d still be in prision but sounds like he’s out.

That was what they said a long time ago.
I’m glad Kev is giving Ralph work.
We can all hear from Family Guy and HB-O how talented he is.

Totally!
Fuck Marvel, Kev has been doing the whole “shared universe” thing for 20 fuckin’ years!
For comic/tv/film nerds, that is what makes his shit so cool.
Like you said, even if it’s just a moment, is strengthens the whole verse by having the characters appear again and again.
That’s why Jay And Silent Bob Strike Back was so great, every character was in there.
Fuckin’ awesome!

Yes, she could have ridden the wave and stayed a success or been crushed by achieving so much so soon.
The whole movie has so much potential!

@TESDGroupie: Maybe they could do like for Red State and have that part animated to see it 🙂
It is great seeing Ralph in Kevin movies.
I even found some the Joe Schmo show episodes and he was great.
I really love Ralph in HB-O.
Besides being voice talented, he is such a fast thinker and so funny.
Would love to see a live so, but that is really far and costy for me, so I have enough with dreaming about returning to the Stash.
That was one of the things that got me hooked about his films, the callback references and people.
It was so much fun.
Jay And Silent Bob Strike Back is indeed great in that aspect… so exciting to see people you know popping up as the story moves.
I even think Trish could be used as a metaphor for Kevin.
Similar start in a way, but we’ll see… I think this may be the movie with the most open opportunities on how things may continue

ThatScoobyDoom: Was that ending ever animated?

He’s been in both of Seth MacFarlane’s movies too.
I’ve never seen Joe Schmo, but it sounds funny as fuck.
Totally, the dude has a mad fuckin’ talent we get to hear all the time but I wish we got to see it more often.
I think tickets are only $20, so if you ever happen to be coming to the states…

The same for me, not only are they funny they have a sense of history.

Exactly, it seems like it’ll sorta be a spiritual sequel to J&SBSB in a way.
…and if Kev keeps going the way he’s going, an actual sequel to Strike Back may not be to crazy an idea!

@TESDGroupie: Hope you can see it: the tweet https://twitter.com/ThatKevinSmith/status/581228915441606656 the link to the video http://bcove.me/cv0jopa4

I have seen ‘Ted’, but I haven’t seen ‘A million ways to die in the West’ though.
I’ve seen a bit of the first season of Joe Schmo and of the third.
The third is great because he plays the host but he is a bounty hunter looking for a replacement.
And one of the candidates is Lorenzo Lamas, who is incredibly funny.
LA is out of the scope of my US visits.
And last year I missed the Tenderloins in Chicago by a week more or less.
It sucks I missed HBO in the UK; couldn’t go because of work.
And WSY was during Easter week, so you should have seen the prices for tickets and hotels in London.
I think the trip would have been more expensive than going to the Stash.

I thinks that sense of history is what made people connect.
It is not something that starts and finish, but something that goes on and grows with you.
That is why I liked Clerks II so much, because being closer in age to Kevin that I am sure you are, it is like friends that you reconnect with and just keep hearing how they are doing and have fun, no matter how many time has gone by.
Middle age is the time when people start longing for their youth, so I’m up to anything at this point 🙂

ThatScoobyDoom: I will be able to hopefully watch it by the time this is posted.
Is it as awesome as Kev described it a few years back?

Same here, Ted but not A Million Ways.
Season 3 was the season they did a like 2 years ago, right?
Totally understand the restrictions.
Sucks you missed it by a week though. 😦

It totally makes sense As I mentioned earlier, it’s what makes the Marvel Cinematic Universe work, at least on some level.
I’m almost 24 and I seriously pine for my youth every fuckin’ day, dear lady. Lol
So I completely understand that.

Anything else you wanna add about Mallrats 2?

@TESDGroupie: It is beyond awesome!
It has a little feel of the (c)Rapture.
He says this scene would probably have been more expensive that any of his movies.
That’s right, season 3 was a couple of years ago and season 1 and 2, early 2000s If you feel like that way about youth now, imagine in 15-20 years.
The things we loved in our youth give us comfort, I think.
And for me, going to the movies or a concert, was exciting, time with friends, laughs, and we never want to see that go.

Just one thing, I have read people wanting Q to be in the movie.
Some had enough with a Dogma-like cameo.
Others think that he should have a bigger part alongside Walt and Bry.
What’s your take on that?

ThatScoobyDoom: That sounds fuckin’ awesome!!!
I remember him saying that back when he first talked about it.

I agree, I’d give almost anything to go back about 10 years because now?
Now sucks.

It all depends on Q’s IJ shooting schedule, but I think it would be a cool nod to us Ants to have him as a third wheel to Steve-Dave and Fan Boy.
Kind of an uber nerd, hero worshipping them, trailing after them idolizing them as if they are important.
That would make me laugh.
What about you?

@TESDGroupie: Hope you can see it, because there are awesome little things that I don’t want to spoil.
It is funny how moments that I thought sucked, now I would love to go back to.

If Q can make it to record TESD, I’m sure he’ll manage to make this work.
At first, I was not sure how I felt.
I wanted him to be in the movie for sure, but that much?
And altering my beloved Steve-Dave and Fan Boy relationship?
But the way you say it sounds awesome, you’ve sold me.
Maybe he could be the Fan Boy Fan Boy 🙂
I don’t think I can improve your scenario, sounds amazing and with lots of awesome laughs.

ThatScoobyDoom: Can’t wait to give it a spin.
I hear ya, just when you think it couldn’t get worse…it did.

Better watch it or you’ll give me a big head. Lol
Thanks.
Yeah, I think it could be fun.
Fan-Boy: Tell ‘Em Steve-Dave!
Q: YEAH!
Steve-Dave/Fan-Boy: Shut up!
Q: Sorry sirs.

Oh, and for the record…MALLRATS WAS GOOD!!!

@TESDGroupie: You know I like your creativity and daring to be out there.
If that doesn’t happen in the movie, I hope they do it for instagram or something, lol.
And indeed… MALLRATS WAS GOOD!!!

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ThatScoobyDoom: The majority of the cast has been confirmed to return, including La Fours.
So besides Ben, who else is missing that you hope comes back?
I can only think of Miss Ivana.

@TESDGroupie: I think that if you go through the list of characters, the only “big” or better known ones left are: Shannon (Affleck), Brandi and Miss Ivana.
And since Affleck doesn’t seem likely -just in case, lol-, I would definitely choose Miss Ivana.
Would be interesting finding out what she is up to now 🙂

By the way, I think I found one with everybody https://twitter.com/Matt_Westphalen/status/585913023409172480

ThatScoobyDoom: Brandi is doing booze commercials for Dewars here in the States, not sure what else she’s been up too but she’s still working.
Ivana, not sure what she’s doing at all.

I actually have a group collage posted above that @JCynda made for me.
I hadn’t seen Mosier’s before, so thanks for that.

@TESDGroupie: Didn’t know about the commercial.
I read in one of the articles that apparently Priscilla Barnes has never stopped working and now is Jane the Virgin.
So who knows?
Would you be interested in any of the two?
Or who can I be forgetting about?

I was sure there were more collages around, but just in case 🙂

ThatScoobyDoom: Oh, I didn’t know that! I want her and Brandi back, if La Fours is back why not?
I can’t think of any others, maybe the kid that got stuck in the escalator? Lol

Where did the Mos pic come from?
Facebook?

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@TESDGroupie: The more the merrier indeed…Wouldn’t it be funny if there was a subtle callback to his son getting stuck in the elevator?
Done much better than this of course.

I’ve seen Mosier both in Facebook and instagram, but didn’t find it on Twitter.
https://instagram.com/p/ 1LTaD5xyxg/

ThatScoobyDoom: Any reference to it would be awesome!
If they met the kids Dad would be funny too, I doubt it would happen but it’d be kinda funny if escalator boy was Pickle Fuckers kid.

That explains why I never saw it.

Before we wrap up, and because I know we both love it, do you have the updated TESD breakdown?

@TESDGroupie: As said before, the more the merrier, and after the Audible book, boy, I would love callbacks 🙂

image

Hope it looks okay, but of course, here it is.
2015 is being pretty good.

Next up, we’ve got SpiderScooby talking Pre-MCU films!

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ThatScoobyDoom: Just to kick off the conversation, going back to the time before the MCU, to those very dark days, what did you think of the Marvel movies as a whole?

SpiderScooby: As a whole?
They certainly varied in quality, with the best being Spider-man 1&2 and X2.
But then you had stuff like Ang Lee’s Hulk, Punisher War Zone, Blade Trinity, the 70’s Captain America, etc.

ThatScoobyDoom: Let’s keep it to the 90’s and forward, we don’t have nearly enough time to cover the shit storm that is 70’s Cap or Lundgren’s Punisher.

Really?
You’d lump Trinity in with the worst?
I dug that?

Speaking of Blade, best place to start I guess, where do you fall on that franchise of movies?
I personally think those movies (especially the first) don’t get nearly enough credit for what they did for comicbook movies.

SpiderScooby: Fair enough.

Yeah, I rewatched it recently, and it’s a huge step down from the first two.
I think the biggest problems were the script and putting more focus on Ryan Reynolds and his “team”.

I was never a Blade fan, but the first two are not bad.
Blade 2 was good mainly because of Guillermo Del Toro.

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ThatScoobyDoom: I’ve seen it recently too, I wouldn’t put it anywhere near as bad as Ang Lee’s Hulk!
Though I do agree with what you said, Reynolds and Co did get too much spotlight and it had Patton Oswald.
But it has more pluses than minuses.
Jessica Biel, Triple H, and that original Vampire dude was good.

I’ve never read a Blade comic, but those movies and the TV show were great!
Made me want to read the comics…but I never got to them.

SpiderScooby: I actually didn’t mind Hulk at the time, though my views have certainly changed on it.

It’seems like they were trying to spin off Renyolds into his own movie.

I barely remember the TV show (only saw the pilot).
I remember his appearance on the 90’s Spider-man show more than anything else.

ThatScoobyDoom: I read the Junior Novel when it came out, it was okay.
It took me many years to watch it start to finish…I regret every moment of it.
It was up there with The Wrong Side Of Town as one of the worst, completely unredeemable movies I’ve ever seen.

Story of that dudes life, am I right? Lol

I watched most of the eps when they aired, haven’t seen them since, I loved it.
It was pretty brutal as I recall and that worked for me.

That 90’s Spidey toon stuff was brilliant, all of it, Blade, Morbius, Cap, Hydro-Man, Goblin, every episode was great!

SpiderScooby: Very odd they released kids books for that movie, because it really didn’t feel like something for kixs.

He seems to have a habit of getting screwed with Marvel franchises.
First Blade Trinity, then X-men Origins.
At least he’s finally doing Deadpool.

Agreed!
Love that series.

ThatScoobyDoom: I don’t think they were sure what the movie was supposed to be, it has moments of strange lightness then moments of extreme forced darkness.
A goddamn anomaly!

Has he had better luck with DC?
Before GL opened there was heavy sequel talk…it opened…and that went away…fast!!!

I’d think that since Disney owns Marvel now that it would get a full proper DVD release.

Back to Blade, I think it gets the short end of the stick.
Everybody credits X-Men with taking the Comic Book genre serious for the first time, but I think it was Blade.
Would you agree?

SpiderScooby: I liked what they were going with it with the whole psychological angle, but they overdid it.

I think that not only hurt the chances of another GL movie, but it also hurt his career.

Well, they finally put it back up for streaming, so who knows.

The thing is, unless you were a hardcore comic fan, you probably didn’t know it was based on a comic book.
Plus you had a much more limited audience with its R rating.
So while Blade certainly helped, I think X-men did more to revitalize the genre.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, they over did it and his directions and the editing choices were fuckin’ dumb.

Totally, not even sure what he’s done since.

Hope springs eternal.

I don’t know that I agree.
It was limited by the rating of course, but they made it clear it was a comic movie.
X-Men popped huge, but Blade laid all the groundwork.

SpiderScooby: And the choice to make it look like a comic with the multiple panels on screen was a mistake.

But you wouldn’t know on the surface.
I figure they wouldn’the to promote it as such since it came out so soon after Batman & Robin.

ThatScoobyDoom: Very much so.
That was probably the thing I hated most.

I guess.
B&R was a nerdboner killed, but Blade kept trying like hell to get it hard again.
I think it was great foreplay X-Men and Spider-Man.

SpiderScooby: Did you like Eric Bana?

Those two were just bigger.
Blade wasn’t a instant hit when it came out.
It only got popular on home vid3o.

ThatScoobyDoom: Not really, mostly for the same reasons I don’t like Ruffles.

Didn’t it pick up steam quickly after that?

SpiderScooby: I thought he was okay, no one in that movie really stood out.

I’mean not sure, but I know it was after it’s video release.

ThatScoobyDoom: Oh yes they did, the dude that played the evil corporate douche stood out!
He sucked in that movie, I’ve seen him in other shit and he was fine.
But he was down right horrible here.

I thought Sam Elliot was a great Thunderbolt Ross too.

Did you think Snipes did a good job as Blade?

SpiderScooby: Well sure, Sam Elliot is great.

Yes, I think so.
I don’the know how faithful his performance is to the comics, but I think he pulled it off.

ThatScoobyDoom: Agreed on both.

So finally X-Men happens, what did you think as it was getting closer?
For me, it had HUGE shoes to fill.

SpiderScooby: I didn’the actually see it until X2 came out.
I wasn’t really an X-men fan growing up so I wasn’t interested in seeing it when it came out.

ThatScoobyDoom: I watched the hell out of the 90’s X-Men animated series.
Those movies had a huge mountain to climb in my book, a mountain they never really made it to the top of, for me, until First Class.
Those 1st 3 have alot of boring bullshit in them.

SpiderScooby: I remember X-men TAS, but I don’t think I watched it that mcuh.

I disagree.
I find the first two highly entertaining.
X2 was my favorite of the franchise up until last year.
They were able to bring these characters to life without making it feel silly.

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ThatScoobyDoom: That and Spider-Man are my referance for the Marvel characters the same way B:TAS & S:TAS are for the DC characters.

I loved the first one, warts and all, for what it was.
2 was busier than Iron Man 2, had alot of yawn moments that I just didn’t really give a rats ass about.
3 was the defintion of mixed bag.
It was fun, stupid, boring, cheesy, great, lame, slow, fast, confusing, and had a bloodlust worse than Wolvie in a full berserker rage.
But I will say this, this franchise has an AMAZING cast.

SpiderScooby: Agreed.. Tbeh really couldn’t have picked anyone better than Hugh Jackman.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, and didn’t he say recently he wants to keep going for quite a few more years?

Can you imagine how goofy he’d look with everybody towering over him?
It works on the page…not so much on screen.

SpiderScooby: Yeah, and he still looks good too.

ThatScoobyDoom: Indeed.
He looks more like Logan now than he did in 2000.

And speaking of him as Logan, what do you think about his first solo movie?

SpiderScooby: Complete shit.
Bad writing.
Bad CGI.
Plot holes that contradict previous films.
Not to mention the complete waste of characters(Deadpool and Gambit).

ThatScoobyDoom: Couldn’t agree more, such a waste of time, money, and skills.
It had every damn reason to be great but ended up shitting the bed at ever freakin’ turn.
Seemed mostly rushed.
It’s sad really.

SpiderScooby: And I feel like we didn’t need an Wolverine origin story anyway because tne otber X-films heavily focused on Wolverine anyways.

The Wolverine, while not a great movie, thankfully was a lot better.

Next, we have our penultimate guest, to talk Scooby specials and the upcoming KISS movie, @ScoobyAddict!

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ThatScoobyDoom: Lets talk about these recent Spooky Tales specials, I’ve seen the 1st 2.
Have you seen any or all of them?

@ScoobyAddict: I have seen Spooky Games and Haunted Holidays.
I don’t remember much from Spooky Games, it’s been a while since I’ve seen it.
I do remember them being chased by a giant gladiator.
Haunted Holidays stuck to the original series, but had a more modern feel.
Shaggy and Scooby looking at their reflection in the ice and making faces at themselves, then the villain shows up behind them reminded me of classic Scooby.
The flow of this episode was very much like SDWAY, and of course Velma lost her glasses.
There was a scene with Scooby riding on a toy car, which I believe was also a scene from early SD.

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ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah yeah, I just watched Spooky Games the other day.
I think it struggles a bit because they want to say Olympics so bad but can’t for legal reasons and it’s unintentially funny.
I was only able to see Haunted Holidays on Youtube, but I dug that one too.
Being caught in a snow storm is creepy and really fit.

YES!!!
Velma losing her glasses was something I wanted to bring up last time actually when we were talking about SD:MI!
That was one of the 2 things that SD:MI was missing, the other being the hallway gag.
I love me a good hallway gag!

I seem to recall that toy car bit being in the New Movies opening.

@ScoobyAddict: Velma losing her glasses and the hallway scenes were definitely missing from SD:MI.
That was always funny to me when she lost her glasses.

Yes, I believe you are correct…Scooby on the car is from The New Movies intro.
I knew I remembered it, but couldn’t think of which intro it was in!

ThatScoobyDoom: I thought it was kind of an interesting twist and a cool piece of development when Shaggy started carrying a spare pair of glasses for her.

I’ve got the Globetrotters DVD here, I should give it a spin and be sure.

Back to the specials, have you gotten the compilation sets that they’ve released them on or have you held off in hopes that some day they’ll release them all together?

@ScoobyAddict: Shaggy didn’t carry spare glasses very often, but it was a nice change to him having food in his pockets.

I didn’t buy the compilation sets.
I don’t want to keep buying the same episodes on different DVD sets over and over again.
I would love to see them release all the specials as a DVD set.
When I say all the specials, I mean Spooky Games, Haunted Holidays, Bravo Dooby-Doo, Those Meddling Kids, The Scooby-Doo Project, and so on…

ThatScoobyDoom: I’m right there with you!
I hate compliations and I hate the 4 episode volumes.
And yes they need to release all of these specials, old and new, in one set.
That’s about the only compilation set I could see myself wanting to buy anytime in the near future.

I especially love this animation style we’ve had these last few years, from Abra forward.
Where do you stand on it?

@ScoobyAddict: I do like the animation style in the recent movies.
I like that they stay close to the original SDWAY character style…Fred has his ascot, Daphne in her typical purple dress and the green scarf.
Even if they don’t wear that trough the entire movie, at least they started off in the classic style.

ThatScoobyDoom: Since Abra, I’ve seen quite a few folks complaining because they mimick some of the things H&B has to do to make the show cheap (Fred, Daphne, & Shaggy having flesh colored eyes etc.), where do you stand on that?

@ScoobyAddict: I don’t mind the flesh colored eyes. I like that they stick to the classic drawing.
At least the characters look like themselves and the animation isn’t way off like Get A Clue was.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’m with ya, I think this is perfect.
I like to imagine if they did an animated movie on the big screen they’d use these designs, I think they’d look amazing if done super high quality.

I wanna ask you about a rumor, I’ve seen a few folks speculating that Mindy may not be voicing Velma in Be Cool.
They’ve given absolutely no reason for thinking she was done, but I wanted to know if you’ve heard that or seen anything to suggest that she is?

@ScoobyAddict: Jon Colton Barry, one of the writers for Be Cool, Scooby-Doo, stated on my forum: “All the voice actors have confirmed that they will be playing their usual roles except for Mindy.” I don’t know if she is not going to voice Velma for the series or if she just hasn’t confirmed it yet.
I hope she does voice Velma.
I think she does a good job!

You can read his post here: http://scoobyaddicts.proboards.com/index.cgi? action=gotopost&board=593& thread=2908&post=33927

ThatScoobyDoom: So that’s where it came from!!!

I like her too, she gives Velma spunk. She’s sarcastic and dry.
I really dig the way they write Velma for her.
Much like I said in our last talk about Fred, gives her more of a personality than “generic smart girl”.
Of course they went too far in season 1 of SD:MI.

If she doesn’t come back, who’s out there right now that could replace her?

@ScoobyAddict: Mindy does give Velma some spunk.
She adds a lot to her character.

Maybe Linda Cardellini?
I liked her live action Velma.
I wouldn’t even really know who else could do it.
I had said Mae Whitman could possibly pull off playing Velma live action, but I don’t know how she would do with the voice.

ThatScoobyDoom: I didn’t even think of Linda!!!
She seemed happy to voice Hot Dog Water, which was like a bizzaro version of Velma…and we know she’s comfortable behind the mic.
I’d take her in a heart beat.

Do you think she and, specifically, Matt realized 14-15 years ago when they signed on to that movie that they’d have roles that could last the rest of their lives if they wanted them?

@ScoobyAddict: I don’t think Linda and Matt really thought Scooby would be a long term thing.
I think they put their heart into their performances in the live action movies and they did great portraying Velma and Shaggy.
I like that they have continued to work on Scooby.
They are, by far, my favorite live actors from the Scooby movies.

ThatScoobyDoom: I’m just glad that WB is utilizing them, would be a shame to let such great performances be limited to just 2 movies.

But I still hope Mindy sticks around for a while.

Something else I wanted to ask you about was CG in the 2-D animation, specifically creatures and vehicles.
Do you think it works well with the 2-D?

@ScoobyAddict: Yes, I am happy to see WB has continued to give them roles.
I would like to see Mindy continue as Velma, but if she chooses not to, Linda would be great too!

The CG never really bothered me.
I think it works ok.
I know other people find it to be distracting, but I think it works.

ThatScoobyDoom: Agreed.

I think it should be kept to vehicles.
Look at the Cicada episode of SD:MI, IMO, that critter looked like crap up against the 2-D.
The CG kinda wavered over it, showed the limitations of the TV animation budget.

@ScoobyAddict: Every time I watch the cicada episode, the thought of having all those bugs on me creeps me out.
I agree the cicada creature didn’t look great, but I’m not sure they could have gotten the same effect with 2-D.
I guess I’d have to see it to know!

ThatScoobyDoom: I know, I hate those damn bugs…and all bugs and insects really.
I think they could have, it just would have been more complicated and time consuming.

The last thing I wanted to talk about with you this time, and this is another reason why I love Mindy (it’s because of Mindy we even know about the movie), was the upcoming KISS movie that we only mentioned last time.
Are you at all excited about that?

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@ScoobyAddict: I am kind of two-fold on this one!
I am excited because I used to be a KISS fan when I was in high school.
I saw them live once when they did the tour with half the show in make-up and the other half without make-up.
I met Sebastian Bach from Skid Row at that show.
I used to love Sebastian and Skid Row until I met him and realized he was a huge ass!
Anyway, I follow Gene Simmons on Twitter and sometimes I feel like he is a pompous ass.
He’s very high on himself, but he’s great at marketing, so we see KISS stuff everywhere.
I might choose a different band to be in a Scooby movie.
Not that I am complaining really, I think a Scooby/KISS movie could be done well.

ThatScoobyDoom: I totally understand, and you wouldn’t be the first to say that for damn sure.
I think I cut him (Gene), and people like him, a little slack because he came from nothing and now sits atop this vast empire.
I think you get that way because along the way you have hundreds of people telling you that you suck and that you’ll never make it.
So, when you finally do make it it’s a bit of a “fuck you” to all the folks that tried to hold you back.
It is shitty, but it happens.

He is indeed a marketing/networking genius and an ultimate opportunist, he knows how to get folks aware of stuff.
The Scooby projects are an extenstion of that, this will be their second time crossing over with Scooby.
It branches them out to a new generation.

We know next to nothing about this project, but do you have any expectations?
I know I’d love them to cover the WAY and WNS-D themes!

@ScoobyAddict: I can understand he came from nothing and now he has built an empire, but he could still be humble and remember where he came from.

I don’t really have any expectations, I just hope his arrogance doesn’t shine through in the movie.
It would be great for them to cover one if the themes or create their own.

ThatScoobyDoom: I agree, but I understand the mentality behind his attitude.

Agree here too.
Much like was said in an earlier segment of this Typecast about Mallrats 2, this KISS movie has vast amounts of potential.
And at least we know it’ll have some pretty kickass music.

@ScoobyAddict: I can understand his attitude, I just don’t condone it.
I think the best way to get back at people who tell you it’s impossible is to do it and remain humble.

The music will definitely be good!

ThatScoobyDoom: So we’ve gotten a trailer, cast & story details, and the official title for Scooby-Doo & KISS: Rock And Roll Mystery, did that excite you anymore for it?

There will be 6 classic songs and 1 original, care to guess the 6?

@ScoobyAddict: I m a little more excited about it because I know it’s real now and not just gossip.
I used to like KISS in high school a lot, but I haven’t listened to them in years.
I might have chosen a different band, but I can see how KISS would be a good choice for a Scooby movie, especially with the makeup.
I know Gene Simmons has a great marketing sense and he will be very picky about the movie and how they are portrayed.
I’m hoping that will translate to a good movie!

My guess on the songs…Seven Days A Week, Pretty Mary Sunlight, Daydreamin’, Love the World, Tell Me, Tell Me…not sure which one the 6th one would be.
Maybe Recipe for My Love?

ThatScoobyDoom: The Sonic Boom album was damn good, you should check that out.
Has a nice classic feel.
Indeed he is.

I think they meant classic KISS songs, but that would be cool if they covered those!

Did any of the casting announcements excite you?
I think they annouced Pauly Perette from NCIS, right?
I know I’m pumped for Kevin Smith and Jay Mewes!

@ScoobyAddict: Oh, I don’t know why I was thinking classic Scooby songs!!
Duh!!
Rock n Roll All Nite, Detroit Rock City…KISS has an album called Unmasked, they should use songs from that!!

In addition to Gene Simmons, Paul Stanley, Eric Singer, and Tommy Thayer, the voice cast will include Kevin Smith, Jason Mewes, Darius Rucker, Garry Marshall, Penny Marshall, Jennifer Carpenter and Pauley Perrette.
I am super excited about Pauley Perrette.
I love NCIS!!!
Kevin Smith and Jason Mewes are kewl!
I’m getting more excited about the movie!!

ThatScoobyDoom: I can’t recall that album off the top of my head, but I’ve never been good with songs and albums like that. Lol

I know Pauley is a big fan of KISS and AC/DC, so that’s not surprising to me that she’s in there.
I was rather stunned by Kev and Mewes though, but after the Plants Vs Zombies and Lego Batman 3 stuff I guess I shouldn’t have been.
I’d heard Kev say last year that he’d met with Gene a few times for a few projects, has me wondering if this was one of those meetings.

@ScoobyAddict: I think Gene Simmons could probably get anyone he wanted to star in this Scooby movie.
He’s got a lot of power in the celebrity world! LOL

ThatScoobyDoom: Damn right, that is as connected as an old timey switchboard.

With as much attention as this one will get, do you think we’ll get a new bonus feature?
I’d love a commentary!
Those character commentaries on Legend Of The Vampire and Monster Of Mexico were great, but I’d love a real commentary.

@ScoobyAddict: I hope we get some good bonus features!!
Maybe a bit of a making of kind of thing or bloopers!
Something that will stand out!

And finally, to talk about the 2nd Episode VII trailer and more, here’s @Fitzman73!!!

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ThatScoobyDoom: Lets just get right down too it, what did you think of the new Ep VII trailer and what do you think of the new planet and it’s name?
I know in previous conversations we both were betting it was just a Into Darkness/Khan like swerve and it was Tattooine.

@Fitzman73: The new trailer is beautiful.
There’s no other word to describe it.
And the scary thing is, it’s still only a teaser.
I’m afraid my brain will explode when we finally get the full theatrical trailer.

Mark Hamill’s voiceover gave me legit chills.
And I really was genuinely surprised at how many things were revealed, especially things that until now had been “rumors” like the melted Vader helmet.

As for that new planet, it’s fine I guess, but until I see it confirmed on screen in the theater, I will continue to think it’s a swerve.
Although at this point, what would be the point?

ThatScoobyDoom: Beautiful indeed.
That was strange to me, sure we’re still 8 months from release, but this was a minute and 20 seconds of actual new footage!
Not quick flashes of stills, not quick flashes of slightly moving images, long shots that reveal big info, at what point do they go from teaser to theatrical?

That melted helmet is very interesting.
As much as I don’t think flashbacks fit the Theatrical Star Wars style, that could be confirmation of a return of Vader via flashback.
Also, at this point, I think I could listen to Mark Hamill describe my own death before he set it in motion.

What was the point of the Khan swerve (even though everybody knew he was bullshittin’), even up until the release of Into Darkness?
And why go through the trouble of coming up with such a strange new name?
Just so after release they can mock us for falling for it?
I think JJ’s credibility was hurt enough with the Khan thing, I’d hope he wouldn’t pull the same shit twice and expect folks not to get a bit pissy with him.

@Fitzman73: I wouldn’t say I’ll be pissy with him about it, but it does seem like a dumb game to play if he is in fact playing a game.
And if he’s not I just don’t get the point of creating a whole new planet that’s essentially just Tatooine.

Something that just occured to me though, what if it is the truth and a swerve at the same time?
What if it IS Tatooine but for some in universe reason we aren’t privy to yet it was renamed?

I don’t really buy for a second that Vader will appear alive in the suit via flashback.
I think the melted helmet is as much as we’ll be getting and whether that shot was part of a flashback or not remains to be seen.

What I do know is I got a full on nerd boner seeing that crashed Star Destroyer.
So fucking awesome to see a graveyard of fallen ships that were part of a battle over that planet.

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Did you notice that Luke appears to no longer have a fleshy bionic hand and instead has mechanical one that looks more like Anakin’s at the end of Ep2?
I thought that was kind of an odd choice.

And it does appear to be true that Luke’s old lightsaber figures into the story somehow as we’re shown Daisy Ridley handing it to Leia.

Also I was really surprised to see that it looks like Kylo Ren is actually part of the Empire remnants, which we know after Celebration are going by the name “The First Order”.
For some reason I thought he would be a lone wolf not someone that would be commanding stormtroopers.

One thing we can put to rest is that it’s Mark Hamill under the Kylo Ren mask because that dude is way too tall and slender to be Hamill.
Although it’s still unclear to me whether it’s Adam Driver or Domhnall Gleeson under there.
They’ve both been conspicuously absent from both teasers.

ThatScoobyDoom: Creating new planets, that’s something that’s in the theme of another question I want to ask you if we’ve got time.
I’m interested to hear your take.

THAT HADN’T OCCURED TOO ME!!!
That’s interesting and actually very well possible given that Tatooine is just a back water dirt planet that really has no bearing on the Republic, the Empire, or this new breed of Imperials.
It doesn’t appear to have any real resources to tap, no special indigenous flora or fuana that we know of, it’s just a hot dust bowl in the ass crack of the galaxy.
You may be onto something, that is a theory worth remembering.

I’d prefer not to have any flashbacks at all, but those are the most persistant of the rumors it seems.

That opening shot tracking, what looks like a landspeeder, and unveiling the gigantic downed ship as if it’s become a part of the planet, almost a mountain, was breathtaking!
Then seeing a TIE chase the Falcon through the remains of a ship on top of it?
I couldn’t stand up either man!

I did notice that.
That whole shot was pretty revealing to me.
Seems almost to confirm that rumor of Luke’s solitude.
Not having the Synth-flesh is sort of odd since that hand doesn’t look like the hand he got at the end of Empire.
Maybe he’s gotten an upgrade in the 30 years?
But it seems weird that they’d give him an upgrade to a hand that (by the time of just after Jedi) 25-30 year old tech, right?

Which I find it strange that I haven’t seen too many folks mentioning that that is Leia receiving the hilt.
Everybody has been so excited by Han and Chewie, which I think might be in part because Chewie was dead in the EU.

That shot in the first teaser of him running through the snowy woods kind of makes it seem as though Ren is a man apart, so I understand why you thought that.
Now that Celebration gave us a close up of him, tell me what you think of him, cause I think we’re on the same wavelength about his look.

I was unaware of the Ren/Hamill rumor, not sure I would have bought into it, though I thought that’s who you thought that was back when he first teaser hit.
I think Driver has an interesting look, a real face of character, would be weird to cover him up even though he seems tall and thin enough.
I’d be more inclined to say it’s Gleeson under the mask.
Still conspicuously absent also is Andy Serkis though.

@Fitzman73: Yeah but Serkis is playing a CG character so it’s not as surprising to me that they’d keep that under wraps as long as possible.

Rumors that I’ve heard actually put Gleeson as an Imperial officer, but if it was that simple, seems strange that there’s no shot of him in the teaser so it could be a massive head fake getting everyone to think Adam Driver will be under that mask only to find out nope it’s someone else.

I think the vehicle in that opening shot is Rey on her popsicle speeder that we saw in the first teaser.
If you look real close it looked to me like the same shape.

I would’ve expected Luke to probably have a new hand, it is 30 years later, but to have it not covered in skin was shocking to me.

Yeah one of those early rumors was that Luke would be revealed to be the “cyborg villain” from that old concept art.
But I think it’s pretty clear that they moved from “cyborg” to “dude in a mask” and there’s no way Hamill’s body type matches what we’ve seen so far.

I think Kylo Ren looks badass and we talked about it before, the design of that helmet lools like a cross between Plo Koon and Darth Revan.

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ThatScoobyDoom: Not even a hint though?
I feel sorrt for the dude, I understand he’s great at mocap but if he’s great at that imagine how great he’d be as himself…but then again, he is himself in Avengers, ain’t he?

I would much rather they accentuated Driver’s features and slap some make-up on him.
I’m wondering if Gleeson is gonna be the son of an OT character, he comes from a decent acting legacy so it wouldn’t be hard to imagine him as the son of a legend.

I have a 3 inch screen, not alot of detail is popping out for me.

If he’s gone recluse the upgrade would be older, unless he fashioned it himself.
And again, if he’s gone koo koo ka choo recluse, the coverings may have rotted off, been damaged and ripped off.
The covering isn’t as interesting as the hand itself too me.

Do you think he could be the same species as Plo?

@Fitzman73: I think from what I’ve heard through the rumor mill is that Gleeson is the offspring of an OT character and his allegiances are a little fuzzy, like is he really for the Empire or just a spy?
So that to me puts his entire purpose in this film into question and opens up (to me) the possibility that the real surprise is the bad guy ends up being him.
My money is still firmly on Driver as Kylo Ren, BUT, I don’t count out the possibility of all the early speculation of him being the bad guy turning out to be a head fake.

Andy Serkis was in Avengers?
Oh you mean the new one?

I would seriously doubt that he ends up being the same species as Plo Koon.
The mask resembles his face shape and breath mask a little but I think that’s just a design coincidence or inspiration.

What do you think of the new names for the Empire and Rebel factions?
The First Order and The Resistance?
Again, seems like an unnecessary change but I guess it will make sense within the context of in universe history

ThatScoobyDoom: I hadn’t heard all of that, adds a new wrinkle.
Trying to think of whose kid he could be, not got a clue really.

Aye, Age Of Ultron.
Very secretive who he’s playing!

Have we seen many of Plo’s race?

With no context, The First Order sounds stupid too me.
Unless it’s something like The Lost Tribe Of The Sith and it’s a previously unheard of sect of the Sith that rises up to take Sidious and Vader’s place.
The Resistance is fine, Rebellion?
Resistance?
Same fuckin’ thing.
No big deal too me.

What to you think of the new Imperial logo?

@Fitzman73: We haven’t seen any of Plo’s race other than him as far as I can recall.
If you google around you can find EU renderings of what they look like sans breathing mask.
Not pretty.
They’re one of those races that can really only survive well in their natural eco system so it’s not too surprising that they’ve never shown us other examples.
Probably don’t see them unless you go to their planet specifically.

That new Imperial logo is ok.
It looks more like a flower to me though.
Too many points on it.

What do you think of the new trooper designs?
We didn’t see the snow or flame troopers in this trailer, but they showed off the costumes at Celebration.
Do they look too “slick” for you?
That’s almost the case for me.
They’re so sleek that they almost look fruity.

ThatScoobyDoom: Not even trying to be funny, I saw a pic of one maskless and it’s mouth looked like a gaping asshole.
I guess the Jedi fashioned that make for Koon when they took him from his parents?

I think it looks kinda cool, but it is very busy.

I haven’t seen the new designs, but my first thought about that silver Trooper with the cape was that they were trying to force a new Boba Fett.
It seemed like they were trying too hard with that one.
But in the case of them being sleek, I’d think some Imperial designs would be.
The Empire has been ruling for 55-60 years by this point, they gotta work some kinks out in all that time.

@Fitzman73: Yeah, it’s only natural that the designs would get more refined as time went along but they almost look like they should have the Apple logo on the back of their helmets.

Yeah I’m not sure what the point of the so called “Chrome Trooper” is.
I’ve heard that it’s basically an elite soldier that’s in charge of tracking down Finn, and SPOILERS, under the helmet is supposedly Gwendolyn Christie.
Although wouldn’t that be a kick in the nuts if she ended up being Kylo Ren?
Everyone assumes it’s a dude but might not be at all.
I don’t think she’s very busty so it wouldn’t necessarily be a big trick to make her look like a flat chested man in those robes.
Come to think of it, something about the way Ren is trudging through the snow in the first teaser reminds me a bit of how she walks sometimes when in armor on Game of Thrones….hmmm….but sane money is still on Adam Driver

But I digress.
Chrome Trooper.
I hadn’t thought of it as a new Boba Fett type character, but I can kinda see that.
Still not sure why it’s necessary, but again, I’m sure it will make sense in the story.

Ok.
So we’ve mentioned Luke.
We mentioned Leia.
Are we ready to talk about the big reveal at the end where we actually get to see one (two?) of the old dogs’ faces?

ThatScoobyDoom: Hahaha, new from Apple, ITroopers!

So it’s supposed to be like an old Clone Commando type from the old EU.
I have no clue who Christie is and I’ve never seen GoT.
I’ve never considered it could be a chick under the Ren mask, the movements seem masculine, threatening, not that women can’t be threatening, but chicks tend to be more graceful in their movements.

That shot with the cape swinging, massive gun, in slomo, looks like it’s trying to be an entrance for a new major pimp character.
My mind jumped to Fett immediately.

That was where I was heading!
Too me, that might well be the most revealing parts of the whole trailer.
“Chewie…we’re home” Han and Chewie have lost the Falcon sometime in the last 30 years!
What do you think about that?

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@Fitzman73: Yeah kind of a Commando.
I’m not sure if it’s one of a kind or part of a larger group.
Oh if you saw her you wouldn’t forget.
She’s a 6’3 model/actress and she can definitely play tough badass.
They try their best early on to make her very brutish and manly and it works even though you see her out of character and it’s like that can’t be the same person can it?

Actually, I was trying to figure out what he meant by the “we’re home” line, because I knew that supposedly Han and Chewie were not going to have the Falcon in the movie but what I had heard as speculation was that it had been handed down to his kid.
But if that part isn’t true and they haven’t seen her in decades then that line makes total sense.

I like that they didn’t go the cliche route and give Chewie any gray hair.
People who know their shit would know that 30 years is nothing to a Wookiee, I think Chewie was still only a young adult in A New Hope and he was already 200 years old.
So 30 years ain’t shit.
But I could see them doing gray hair just emphasize “hey time has passed right audience???”.
Glad JJ was smart about it.

ThatScoobyDoom: So she’s basically the new Lucy Lawless?
Cool.

That’s how it plays to me, they’ve been away from that boat for quite some time.

I have to disagree with you, slightly.
I think had they gone overboard and gave him a mane of Gray it would look ridiculous, but just a little streak under his bottom lip or between his eyes would show that time has past.
Just a little 2 inch tuft of gray hair, that’s it.
I’m 24 now, even I have a couple of grays.
So if Chewie looks the same after 50 years (remember, he was with Yoda during the battle of Kashyyk) it seems strange.
Just something to make him look slightly different, just a tich older, to show a passage of time, makes alot of sense to me.

So, how much did this trailer up your excitement?
We see new TIEs, more Falcon, a few downed ships, X-Wings again, the old guard, and motherfuckin’ R2 D2!!!

@Fitzman73: I’ve heard that they did supposedly add some lighter, not fully gray, hair to the suit to show a little bit of aging, but I sure couldn’t tell just from that clip.
Definitely some gray highlights would’ve been ok with me, I would just oppose going overboard and having him look like grandpa Chewie from the Holiday Special.

This trailer sent my excitement through the fucking roof.
Chalk it up to being unspoiled and unprepared for this one as opposed to the first or say it’s because the OT characters were in it finally, either way I could not have been more jacked after watching this thing.

ThatScoobyDoom: From that clip or the Force For Change clip, I really can’t tell any difference.
From the OT to III to now, I can’t tell a difference.
Even with the old continuity saying Wookiees live for hundreds of years, that long of a time should show some change.

For the most part, I’d put it on the OT characters showing up.
Which is what got me pumped too.

So moving along, we have a title, release date, and some story details for the first spin-off/stand-alone/anthology film.
Rogue One is indeed about the stealing of the Death Star plans, what do make of all of that?

@Fitzman73: So far I’m not sure what to make of it.

The “Anthology” brand is a pretty smart move.
Everyone knew these would be outside of the numbered episodes, but giving them their own umbrella to be collected under is pretty cool.

I’ve said several times where I think the story of the Death Star plans being stolen should be told, but alas, Disney is apparently ignoring my brilliance.

It’s not necessarily a story that I feel needs to be told, so having it be the series finale of an episodic tv show like Rebels whose entire concept is tailor made so that it can pay off in a grand event like that makes total sense to me as opposed to a 2 hour movie with characters we’re presumably going to meet for the first time.

I have faith that the film will be enjoyable and well made, I just feel like that particular story would be better served on Rebels.

ThatScoobyDoom: Anthology makes me think there will be multiple stories per film, which I don’t think is what they intend to imply.
This is semantics, of course, but Spin-Off worked better for me.
They are spinning out of ideas from the Saga films.

Rebels does make sense, you’ve been beating that drum since it premiered and I agree with you.
And who knows, maybe Rebels will feature the characters that’ll be in the film stealing the plans.
Maybe that’s where we’ll get the introduction, then that’ll be the first time we see a character cross from small to big screen.

Do you find it weird at all that, even though it’s a vast Galaxy with many characters and stories to tell, they keep focusing on that period right before A New Hope?
The novels are covering it well, Rebels is doing that for a half hour weekly, now Rogue One is filling that “void” too.

They say it’s gonna be a ground level war movie, what do you make of that?wn

@Fitzman73: How is it going to be a ground level war movie about stealing the Death Star plans?
That does not compute at all.
Is it going to be The Dirty Dozen or Guns of the Navarrone situation or what?
I assumed it was going to be more Mission Impossible.

You’re right, there’s nothing so far to say that the main characters of the movie might include live action Rebels characters.

I don’t necessarily find it odd to be focusing on the just prior to episode 4 time period, until Ep 7 comes out that’s really the only OT time period they can do much with (in addition to in between OT films that is) and not possibly run into episode 7 spoiler territory.
If you start looking at post RotJ then you’re going to have to at some point explain why the Empire is still around, what happened to the heroes after Endor, etc.
Which I imagine they’d rather not reveal until episode 7 drops.
In fact I think they already have a post RotJ novel set to come out but not until much closer to ep7’s release I belive if not after.
They’re not even dropping the ep 7 novelization until after the film is released.

ThatScoobyDoom: Well look, they had the plans as far back as Episode II, 5 years between II and III.
How many places did they have those plans?
Maybe they’re in the war and the newly forming rebellion stumbles across an old Separatist base with a copy of the plans, one of the Separatist leaders had a back up that they didn’t retrieve before heading to Mustafar.

At this point, I think they really want to do that.
I just have a feeling that this story group is pushing for a Toon character to turn Live.
I think they may have teased or hinted at it.

Don’t get me wrong, this isn’t me asking “why not the PT era” again, I understand they aren’t interested in that.
This is me saying “so much just before and just after at the same time, comics, novels, TV Shows. What about after Empire?” Seems like that year or so after Empire might have some interesting Luke, Leia, and Chewie stories as they accept this dude that just fucked them over, got Han frozen, and carted off by Fett.
It just seems like overkill (Zuuuuuuuune) to keep ringing that bell, like by covering it so much at the same time their gonna make it easier to have continuity troubles.

Yeah, Aftermath, set just after Jedi. Sounds like it’ll be good.

@Fitzman73: Between Empire and Jedi?
They did that.
Once. Lol.
Shadows of the Empire.
Not a bad story, but given the MASSIVE marketing and tie in effort that they had for it, it’s a bit underwhelming.
I can’t imagine it hold up real great 15 years later.

Keep in mind though, I think it was a year tops between Empire and Jedi so not a lot of time to play with there.
2 or 3 years between New Hope and Empire though.
So maybe we’ll see more stuff after that, like the new Marvel series.
That picks up right after Yavin.

ThatScoobyDoom: But again, nothing there now.
Fill all the gaps, spread the stories around, I know they will eventually!
But shit, only filling like 2 gaps now.
Like I’ve said a few times in the past, with the EU purge the timeline desperately needs depth and to keep banging the same drums seems like reactionary fanservice to me.
I believe I’ve said this a few times too, this isn’t me speaking as a jilted PT era fan, it’s more of a Pre-PT fan thing.
It’s clear from Menace that this Galaxy has history, show it!
Give us some goddamn Qui-Gon, we know we have plenty of Han, Luke, Leia, and Chewie stories coming.
Maybe after TFA we’ll get that.

Now the next thing I wanna ask you about, which we can end on if you want, is about the tech and what not.
Ignore all the previous EU stories, the histories, the characters, trash ’em all.
And also, let’s just say Jakku for the sake of arguement is indeed a new planet, how do you feel about them resolving old problems of the EU?
Meaning creating new species, new vehicles, new weapons, new planets, when the EU had all these things laid out.
Do you think it’s a wise choice to spend time thinking of a new desert planet when there are 2 or 3 already that they could repurpose or just revisit and show us a new side of?

@Fitzman73: I don’t know, I still think that even though the old EU has been relegated to Legends status that they are and will be mining certain elements of it.
Even if there aren’t direct adaptations or obvious inclusions, there have been and will continue to be at the very least subtle nods and designs inspired by the EU.

I mean we already talked about the look of Kylo Ren, it couldn’t be more EU inspired.
It’s straight out of the old KOTOR games.

I think at the end of the day these movies are being made by artists.
Artists create shit.
For better or for worse they’re not really interested in telling other people’s stories.
Hell, forget the EU, George Lucas is on record saying JJ shitcanned his episode 7,8,9 story treatments and went in a completely different direction and he CREATED THE WHOLE FUCKING THING!
So if they’re not even interested in using the Maker himself’s stories then there’s no way they’re interested in looking to the EU for material.

ThatScoobyDoom: That is the best possible answer you could have given, and I understand it.
But at the same time it’s like, these motherfuckers were under the gun from the jump!
Hell, this time last year we found out there was a writer shake-up for godsake!
With that much turmoil, it seems ill advised to start from zero and try and make up shit from scratch that fits into what everybody has in mind as being Star Wars when you can just repurpose old shit.
It’s a way that they could have their cake and eat it too.
“Look, here’s all this old shtuff that you guys know and love.
Now it’s not exactly how you remember it, but we made it fit and we hope you’ll give it a chance” type of thing.
Shit, even George did exactly that, look at the name Coruscant.

And ignoring George’s vision is something that still rubs me the wrong way.
I’m not an apologist, because that would imply sorrow or regret, I have neither.
I know I’ve said this alot in our conversations, but I’m gonna say it again goddamn it.
That dude gets far too much disrespect and it’s fuckin’ sad and pathetic.

@Fitzman73: Yeah when I heard him say he has no idea what the the new movies are about because they dropped his story treatments entirely I was like whoah that’s fucked up.
And that writer shakeup was all part of that.
The original guy Michael Arndt was George’s boy, he basically pushed for him and got him.
So what I’ve heard is that JJ Abrams never liked him, wanted his own writer and so basically booted him and I guess whatever script he’d been working on and brought on his own guy to bring HIS vision to life.

All I know is that it better be fucking awesome after all this intrigue.

ThatScoobyDoom: Yeah, which brings me back to the topic I brought up, seems unwise, at least on Ep VII, to waste time starting from scratch when the EU has a wealth of this shit set up and waiting to be repurposed.
And I realize I’ve overused repurposed, but I feel it’s logical to think they would repurpose it to fill the current need.
I’ve accepted that the EU stories aren’t canon, but to clean the slate of all the extra shit that was created just to puff out your chest and say you created it seems like not the bed idea when under a time crunch.
Hope I’m explaining my thoughts on this well enough.

I can see adapting his ideas, but shelving them feels wrong.
He knows this shit better than anybody, to ignore that is really strange.

I have faith, just look at Rebels.

@Fitzman73: Right.
And other than it being helmed by Dave Filoni it really has no input from George, yet it feels like it does.
In my opinion Filoni is the closest thing we have now to GL in terms of understanding how all these pieces fit together, how the Star Wars universe works and why things are the way they are.
He’s the closest thing to a protege that GL ever had.
I fully expect him to one day be in charge of Lucasfilm.

ThatScoobyDoom: Agreed, and I hope for that, but I have a very real fear that, given as hard as he’s been working on the Saga for the last 10 years, he may come face to face with burnout.
As anybody in any job knows it’s hard to do the same thing for a long period and not get burnt the hell out.

I’d be interested to learn exactly when TCW shuttered and Rebels started.

@Fitzman73: I don’t think there was much time between the two.
A matter of months maybe.

ThatScoobyDoom: Given the way TCW has ended, leaving so many unfinished episodes, it might even be less time than that.

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Pictures provided by @Jcynda, @TESDGroupie, SpiderScooby, & @Fitzman73.

I can’t thank @TESDGroupie, SpiderScooby, @ScoobyAddict, & @Fitzman73 enough for taking the time to have these conversations with me.
Means alot that they’ve all done so many of these with me, I can’t express how much I appreciate it.
Thanks guys!
I can’t say it enough, Thank You.

Show your thanks by checking out and visiting all of their links below.

If you want more of the great @TESDGroupie follow her twitter: http://twitter.com/TESDGroupie
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If you wanna see more from SpiderScooby, visit his sites ScoobyFan.Net & RossStuartMedia.Com and follow him on the TWITTERS http://twitter.com/scoobyfandotnet & http://twitter.com/spiderscooby

Check out all of @ScoobyAddict‘s links.
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And finally, follow @Fitzman73 on his personal twitter http://twitter.com/fitzman73 and the twitter for his podcast Just Jump To The End, that he does with his sister @Tacky1Z, http://twitter.com/jj2end

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And finally, there are enough dickheads roaming the world so don’t be one of those.

Thanks for reading!